From posting history, @Charlotteletter is a high school sophomore - maybe she can take her argument to a high school CC forum.
OP’s question has been answered - UW-Madison doesn’t require any vaccinations but they are available on campus for a fee.
You don’t use your “heart” to make rational decisions. Using your heart to make decisions leads to stuff like witches being burned at the stake and foot binding.
I’m so sad about the fact that people who make decisions based on their feelings rather than sound science often don’t change their tune until their kid gets sick (or dies) and then they “feel” worse about their kid suffering and dying than they ever did about the vaccines.
Not at a SUNY. Online students have to show proof that their immunizations are up-to-date before they’re allowed to register for classes.
I’ve made note of the handful of anti-vaccine CC members and will discount any advice they give on anything going forward.
Am I on your list? Not that I give anyone an advise. Vaxxers are getting just as absurd as anti-vaxxers.
Eh, I’ll still listen to what people have to say even if I strongly disagree with it. My room-mate from college is a strong anti-vaxxer. Her posts show up between my uber liberal and uber conservative friends, and my gay pastor friend posts alongside of my fundamentalist Christian friends. My daughter observed my feed one morning and was like “how does your FB feed not implode like anti-matter meeting matter?”
I think it’s important to listen and have dialogue with people who disagree with you. None of us are right about everything, and I’m not going to force people into a dogmatic corner by discounting everything they say, even if I fiercely argue with particular beliefs.
Not all vaccines work 100%, and never have been represented as such. Anyone who doesn’t sero convert is at risk, as are babies too young to be vaccinated, those who are immunocompromised, and those who have medical contraindications against certain vaccines. All of these vulnerable people depend upon herd immunity to protect them.
Au contraire. The devastation caused by vaccine preventable diseases FAR eclipses vaccine caused injuries. There is just no comparison whatsoever in terms of risk/benefit. The whole “two sides to the story=neither is invalid” is pure bunk.
You present these as equivalencies, and they are absolutely not. The risks associated with diseases absolutely blow away the morbidity/mortality associated with vaccines.
This debate is never going to resolve. Call the schools, find out, move on.
As the mother of vaccinated kids with autism: the two are NOT related. Period. That debate is over.
The issue I have with those who choose not to vaccinate (even if religious and I don’t think there should even be a choice for healthy ppl) is the danger they pose to those who have cancer, AIDS, certain auto immune disorders, SIDS, pregnant women, elderly, newborns…I heard a parent once say these folks should just not go out if they have issues that make them vulnerable…hmmmmmm. Or, the unvaccinated can stay home and leave the modern world to get on with it. Your choice not to vax, you stay in your home.
The way I read it Charlotteletter is comparing two groups; anti-vaxxers and the other who depend on herd immunity. We have to go in with the assumption the majority will always be vaccinated since they will be. We are not comparing what happens if no one is vaccinated vs if everyone is vaccinated. We are discussing what happens if the population is partially vaccinated. At what point it is warranted to enforce it on everyone? I don’t think it’s necessary.
@Iglooo Where did you get your medical degree?
Other horrible diseases aside, I can’t imagine the guilt I would feel if my college age son got the mumps and became sterile.
If you want to see disease/vaccination in practice, go to an animal shelter. Dogs with distemper are heartbreaking. Puppies with parvo too. Thank goodness for vaccinations for people and animals. And I am really glad we no longer are having to shoot rabid dogs in the street (To Kill a Mockingbird, Old Yeller…).
- Some people can NOT be vaccinated. People like I was - a micro preemie at a time when babies like me didn’t live, who then needed multiple major surgeries. The plan was to vaccinate after the second surgery, but of course I caught measles and encephalitis before that could happen.
- Vaccines don’t work perfectly for every person, and we depend on herd immunity to protect those people who do the right thing but fall into the group of people not fully protected.
- There are many people now coming into the country with communicable diseases that were either eradicated or controlled but now are widely present. It might have been the case 20 years ago that one could indulge one’s specialness and never come into contact with the diseases, but no one can count on that now. You either step into the world of regular mortals, or you risk terrible diseases.
- All the special people who are virtue signaling to each other just how special they are and how other people only exist to serve them have weakened the herd immunity in a lot of places. That, combined with the reintroduction of the diseases, is leading to serious outbreaks.
For those anti-vaccination people, serious question: what would you to say to your neighbor whose newborn baby died of pertussis after meeting your mildly ill, unvaccinated child on the sidewalk as she was bringing the baby home from the hospital?
What would you say to your son if he contracted mumps and was rendered sterile?
Maybe Disney will require proof of immunization before it lets people into its parks. They don’t want to associated with another measles outbreak! And then the dominos will start to fall.
It’s like anti smoking rules for the workplace. They’re not designed to punish those who smoke, but to protect the health of the workers who choose not to smoke. Disney has a right to protect its immunized workers.
If the OP’s kiddo is going to University of Wisconsin, the question has been answered for the OP. That school does allow students who are not immunized to attend. That is what the OP wanted to know.
The debate (and it is a debate) for immunization choice will never be agreed upon.
I’m personally in favor of immunization unless it is medically not appropriate for a a student.
But not everyone shares my opinion.
I think we have to recognize that there are risks to vaccines. I’ll freely admit that there have been people injured by vaccination.
That said, the risk is so small and the risk of vaccine preventable diseases, while still small, is so much larger that vaccination is, in my mind, a no-brainer.
My analogy would be this:
I know someone who was assaulted by a cab driver 10 years ago, so cabs make me nervous. When I drink to excess, if my ride flakes out I’d rather get behind the wheel of my own car than risk getting into a cab. I have the right to take the mode of transportation that makes me feel most secure. If your kid is driving safely and alertly the risk of me smashing into them is pretty small anyway, right?
Sue, the level of risk depends on each person’s situation. If you live in NYC and regularly travel on the subways, you come into contact with a lot of people from many different places. If you live in a community where members regularly travel to see relatives in countries where vaccination is less prevalent, your risk is higher. If you live in a community of snowflakes too special to be vaccinated, you might not realize that your risk is higher. College students living in close quarters with people from many different places are also at a higher risk.
The thing about risks from vaccinations is that for many of that small population (I have a nephew with epilepsy who was considered at risk from certain vaccinations), changes in the schedule and timing of the vaccinations can mitigate some of the risk. For the rest of the people at risk, we all have a responsibility to protect them by bolstering herd immunity.
I’m very glad that my son’s school doesn’t allow non-vaxxers, but I’m going to ask the roommate if he is vaccinated because I want no part of my kid in a small room with someone who isn’t vaccinated.
@zoosermom - does the Hasidic community vaccinate? I’m assuming they do since they live in urban concentrations and I’ve never heard of an outbreak in their community. The Amish began vaccinating after some of them brought back the measles from Asia.
What religion would not vaccinate? Jehovah’s Witness? Christian Science?
This is a really good article that appeared in “The Atlantic” last year and addresses critics (like @albert69) of the “big profits” to be made in vaccine production:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/02/vaccines-are-profitable-so-what/385214/
I believe the OP said they were from Wisconsin, but I didn’t see where they said the school(s) in question was/were UW affiliated. Post #19. Around the middle of the thread other members made an assumption she had said UW and there were 3 or 4 posts in a row that then acted like it was a fact, but I don’t think she ever said it. Not on this thread, anyway.*