<p>Thanks for the great information! </p>
<p>Another question: About how many spots are open for M&T transfers each year?</p>
<p>it all depends on the number of people who leave the program each year</p>
<p>so usually 1-5? </p>
<p>and the m+t transfer pool is run with the wharton transfer pool, with m+t running first; you pretty much need a 4.0 or nearly there to get in</p>
<p>I see. Well one of the difficulties I’ve been having with course selection is choosing whether or not I want to take an easier class to get the higher grade or take the more difficult class and potentially save time/get retroactive credit in the process (ie. Math 104 and Math 114). If I did, however, stay on an extra year for a submatriculation program, “saving time” by taking the more advanced courses wouldn’t be as big a factor in my deciding which classes to take, right? This is all so complicated! 
:(</p>
<p>Does M&T look very heavily upon extracurricular activities or is it purely GPA-based? </p>
<p>Thank you for all your helpful answers, again! :)</p>
<p>it’s alllll gpa</p>
<p>I knew the dual did it by the highest and then decreasing GPAs. So M&T does it that way too?</p>
<p>How many kids does Penn admit to Jerome Fisher (50 kids total) and LSM (25 total) during Early Decision admissions and how many does it reserve for Regular Admissions?</p>
<p>Does applying Early Decision give me a significant advantage with admissions? LSM/M&T are one of those programs I’d die to get into (still debating between which one, but either us by far my number one choice), but I kinda feel like because they only accept 50/25 kids annually, I might be wasting my ED since I’d pretty much have no chance no matter how good my application is. But if I do in fact get a significant boost with ED over RD, I wouldn’t give it a second thought to apply early.</p>
<p>i don’t have any stats, but based purely on intuition, i don’t see any reason for penn to give a boost to ED. joint degree programs are prestigious enough that there is no need for them to fill their classes that early, since a lot of people will choose it RD.</p>
<p>What kind of career opportunities are presented to LSM grads that are different from Jerome Fisher grads? Am I naive to think that graduating from LSM will get me on the fast track or at least a head start on finding an administrative position at a scientific firm (e.g. the CEO of a pharamaceutical a la Dr. Roy Vagelos himself). </p>
<p>And do you think that Penn makes the distinction between science and engineering for high school applicants? I have some purer science ECs (research at an organic chemistry lab and NJ governor’s school in the sciences) but will UPenn look at that as overall interest in the sciences or an interest in science, not engineering. </p>
<p>Finally, how do the alumni relations, networks created, and the job placement/recruiting compare between LSM and Jerome Fisher? Would I be better off (in terms of job placement and those aformentioned things) with say Harvard or LSM (hypothetically obviously haha).</p>
<p>A couple clarifications:</p>
<p>-chrisw is correct in that, in LSM, you are guaranteed one paid lab internship and one paid business internship. However, the order is completely up to you. Most students prefer to do the lab internship before junior year and the business internship before senior year.</p>
<p>-In both M&T and LSM, you get to choose your business concentration. Not everyone has to do Management. Finance is very popular.</p>
<p>LSM comments:</p>
<p>-The emphasis is on health care, pharmaceuticals, and biotechnology. Most LSMers are either pre-med or want to work in a business division of one of the three aforementioned fields. In the former case, students view business skills and necessary life skills as well as preparation for leadership in research and clinical environments (labs, hospitals, etc - this is what Dr. Vagelos did). In the latter, students want to work in business (finance, management, etc) and use their science knowledge to gain a deeper understanding of what their company does with hopes that this will let them stand out among their colleagues and allow them to rise more quickly in the corporate ladder.</p>
<p>-The career opportunities available to LSMers is pretty wide. Look at the [list</a> of advisory board members](<a href=“Home | Penn Life Sciences & Management Program”>Home | Penn Life Sciences & Management Program) to see who is investing time - and, in most cases, money - into the program and what companies they represent. Those companies very often offer internship spots available exclusively (or preferentially) to LSM students. At the same time, a number of current LSM’ers are straight-up pre-med and others stick it through the science stuff to have the LSM name on their resume for their interviews with Goldman and McKinsey.</p>
<p>LSM vs. M&T:</p>
<p>-Engineering is MUCH MUCH harder than a science degree in the College. M&T is notorious for being very difficult. Not only do you have a ton more requirements to fulfill, but the classes are also much more rigorous, requiring more time in labs and quantitative reasoning than, say, a bio degree. At the same time, everyone in the program seems to be able to balance their time very well because I feel like M&T students are some of the least stressed people I know despite having such an intense course load.</p>
<p>-One thing you will certainly get with either program, as has been pointed out before, is a community and a network. I was in LSM when I got to Penn, and it was the reason I chose Penn and didn’t consider any other school for more than a second. I wanted to be in a small program with personalized advising, a close professional community, and a network for after college. For these reasons, I would strongly recommend either LSM or M&T to anyone who is interested. I can’t answer the question of LSM/M&T vs. Harvard because it’s a very personal decision and I happen to think that academics shouldn’t be the only factor dictating your college decision, but it’s a useless question anyway until you get your acceptance letters in March and there’s absolutely no value speculating right now.</p>
<p>Let me know if you guys have any more questions about LSM.</p>
<p>Thanks a bunch for your response theoneo, it was definitely very helpful. Right now, I feel like I may be slightly (and I mean slightly) more interested in Jerome Fisher than LSM because the application of more quantitative reasoning does really appeal to me. </p>
<p>However, do you know if my science ECs that I mentioned before (e.g. organic chemistry research) will make me more qualified for LSM than for Jerome Fisher through an adcom’s eyes? I love the purer sciences as well and would be more than ecstatic if I got into either LSM or Jerome Fisher, but I was wondering if an adcom would look at that EC for example and say, oh that’s a science EC, not an engineering one, and therefore this person isn’t really interested in Jerome Fisher. Because I mean while the divide between engineering and science does exist in college, there is little to no distinction made before it.</p>
<p>You’re right, it should be fine.</p>
<p>If you have more questions you should really talk to the advisors of the two programs. LSM’s is Dr. Andy Coopersmith and you can find his contact info on the LSM website. I don’t know about M&T but I’m sure you can find that as well. Their jobs are to support the students in the program (and they make decisions on applications as well) so there’s really no reason not to contact them. Additionally if you’re not too far away you can visit campus and Andy will prepare a campus tour, get a group of current students together to talk to you, and you can usually stay overnight with an LSM student. Again, I assume M&T has similar opportunities.</p>
<p>Thanks again. And yeah, I was planning on arranging a visit to Penn and to schedule a visit with the program directors for both LSM and Jerome Fisher. You think I should schedule a visit during late August, so classes will be in session then and I will have a better feel for the program (they should be in session then, right?)</p>
<p>By the way, do you mind me asking if you have stuck with the LSM program and if you are on track for graduating in four years?</p>
<p>Classes don’t start in august. They begin on September 9th this year I believe.</p>