<p>I know UPenn’s Jerome Fisher program is extraordinarily prestigious and offers a very high level of education. However, if I understand correctly the Roy and Diana Vagelos LSM (Life Sciences and Management) program is relatively new, but is very similar to Jerome Fisher (except if focuses on life sciences, not engineering… in addition to business). </p>
<p>How does LSM compare with Jerome Fisher in terms of prestige and quality of education?</p>
<p>if you are trying to decide between the two, do the one that is more interesting to you. Don’t base your decision on prestige or “quality of education” because you won’t survive it without a true love for the subject.</p>
<p>That makes a lot of sense, but to me at least, engineering and life science are so similar, that I have an equal interest in both. It’s not like choosing between Huntsman and Jerome Fisher, where both have dramatically different concentrations. Therefore, I wouldn’t want to apply to LSM if Jerome Fisher is far more recognized and will benefit me more in the long run.</p>
<p>don’t believe that a science major and an engineering one are interchangeable. the intro coursework may be similar but you will learn different things and to think in different ways.</p>
<p>In what fundamental ways do engineering and science differ? And I am also asking about the quality of the LSM program because if I realize that I prefer purer sciences over engineering, I do not want to apply to LSM if it doesn’t provide the quality of education that I would like.</p>
<p>Yes jerome fischer is considered more prestigious on campus, but once you graduate it makes no difference. All employers will know is you got two degrees. It doesn’t matter if you were even in a specific program (some people just choose to do two degrees but did not apply or get into either program)</p>
<p>Engineering and life sciences aren’t as similar as you’re making them sound. If you have equal interest in both, that’s fine, but it’s not because they’re the same thing. </p>
<p>Life sciences? Biology, chemistry, physics, etc. Engineering can range from bioengineering to systems engineering to computer science…it’s just not the same.</p>
<p>Don’t worry about prestige. Once you graduate the only thing that matters is that you got two degrees - one from Wharton, which is impressive on its own, and one in engineering or in science. The quality of education for science would be the same as if you attended Penn for science alone (so if you wouldn’t do that, then don’t bother with LSM, but I seriously doubt that Penn’s science departments are worse than its engineering except maybe bioengineering) and additionally you are guaranteed two paid internships the summer before your junior and senior years, respectively.</p>
<p>Seriously, Penn is a great school and you will get a great education no matter which program you choose; what matters is that you apply for what you’re interested in.</p>
<p>What do you think engineering is? It interests me that you think it’s so similar to life sciences.</p>
<p>I am confused on what LSM is.
Is it a 4 year program that lets you get a BS/BA from CAS and Wharton?
Or is it like a 7/8 year program that gets you a MD/MBA <---- that would be sick. Treating patients at day and trading stocks at night.</p>
<p>lsm is the 4 year program with the bs/ba, not a 7/8 year program</p>
<p>“Science makes it known. Engineering makes it possible.”
don’t remember where i read this but it must have appealed to me at the time or i would’ve forgotten it. sounds like it was written by an engineer though.</p>
<p>LSM is a four year program with the BS/BA</p>
<p>Would it be advantageous to apply to apply to LSM and 2nd choice the CAS?
Will that increase chances of getting in or decrease admission chance?</p>
<p>It would increase your chances of admission. I’ve heard applying to a joint degree program with no backup can hurt your chances of admission. I have no factual evidence to support this, just hearsay and talking to friends rejected from M+T who are either at Penn or elsewhere. </p>
<p>Are you asking if it is better to apply with the College as a backup vs Wharton or applying with the College as a backup vs nothing? The college is a better backup than Wharton because the college accepts a higher percentage of students and accepts more students. Statistically, that means you have a better chance of being admitted to the College than Wharton. There are certain profiles that would have an easier chance of getting into Wharton than the College, but if you’re competitive for LSM, you should have the science background to get into the College.</p>
<p>Good LORD is there a lot of bad information flying around here. Okay, let’s get the basics down.</p>
<p>The Jerome Fisher Program in Management & Technology has been around for quite a long while. It gives you a degree from Wharton and Engineering.
The Vagelos Program gives you a degree from Wharton and the College.</p>
<p>These two programs are EXTREMELY different. So before I go any further, let’s understand the schools we’re talking about.</p>
<p>The School of Engineering takes science and shows how to implement it. It focuses on the practical more than the theoretical. With a degree from SEAS you will show up ready to work, while a degree from the SAS will prepare you for graduate/professional study but not necessarily job-readiness. At the same time, you miss out on some of the foundations of science that make what you’re doing possible.
The School of Arts & Sciences focuses on the theoretical aspect of science. You will learn concepts in great detail, but you will miss out on a lot of their practical applications. Essentially, the College will teach you what a light bulb is, how it works and why it works. SEAS will teach you how to create a light bulb.
Wharton is an undergraduate business school. It will teach you how to interact with others in a professional environment, how to handle situations, etc. It will also give you the tools necessary to run an effective business or rise to the top of an existing corporation. At the same time, you will not learn (unless you want to) the fundamentals of economics.</p>
<p>The M&T program is extremely practical, as you might guess. You are earning a degree in Business with a Management concentration. You are simultaneously earning a degree in Engineering.
The LSM program is a mixture between the practical and the theoretical. You will earn a degree in Biology, Biochemistry or Biological Basis of Behavior as well as a Managment concentration in a Business degree. </p>
<p>Both programs are extremely versatile and will set you up for a hell of a job right after graduation. Both programs help you get paid internships before junior and senior years. The M&T program will set you up with a business internship before junior year and an engineering internship before senior year; the LSM program gives you a business internship before junior year and a lab internship before senior year.</p>
<p>The essential difference is that LSM focuses much more on research and theory than the M&T program does.</p>
<p>However, if you are thinking of applying based on “prestige” alone, perhaps with a slight interest in the actual program(s), please for your own sake just DON’T DO IT. If you are thinking “long term,” think of your actual interests. Your long term interests will determine your long term success or lack thereof. If you only have a marginal interest in theoretical science, then you should recognize that taking 18.5 courses to fulfill the BBB major for LSM would be EXTREMELY difficult and tedious, and your GPA would certainly suffer.</p>
<p>Also, LSM is amazingly difficult to get into, as is M&T. Don’t apply expecting to get in. If you don’t get into either of the special programs you apply for, you will be placed in the regular applicant pool, so don’t worry about that. Oh, and applying for one of these programs doesn’t mean that you have a better chance of getting in. If those who apply for one of those programs get into Penn at large at a higher rate, it’s simply because those applicants are on average better candidates than the rest of the applicant pool.</p>
<p>What’s the difference, then, between being an M&T student and earning the two degrees as a non-M&T student? Doesn’t it still come down to prestige?</p>
<p>There are perks to being M+T. On top of prestige you have a great alumni network, social network in college (a lot of them seem to be friends and work together a lot), great funding opportunities, and it gets you out of requirements while you’re at Penn. Being a dual degree student is very similar, academically, but you have to take a few extra classes and miss out on some of the perks of being M+T.</p>
<p>thanks for clearing it up, Chrisw. didn’t get m&t so will go SEAS and dual degree - prob comp eng/sci and business. hope to get into m&t after 1st yr, but seems unlikely. how does this affect 1st yr course selection? any help from advisers when (if?) i ever see one?</p>
<p>One of my friends transfered from SEAS to M+T after his first year. He had a 4.0 and was very active on campus. M+T and dual degree process is about the same. The only difference is that you need a 4.0 for M+T and 3.8 for dual degree. If you come in with a lot of AP credit and are dead set on a dual, you would probably want to consider taking a lot of easier courses instead of diving into upper level engineering courses to keep your GPA on the high side.</p>
<p>I understand that applying to M+T or LSM may not increase your chances of getting into UPenn (even one of the schools), but if I applied to UPenn M+T/LSM Early Decision, but decided not to be considered Early Decision for either Wharton or SEAS/SAS, will that really hurt my prospects of getting into M+T/LSM?</p>
<p>^I don’t think it will hurt your chances if you don’t have a backup for ED. One of my friends got into a joint degree program ED without a backup. I hear it might have a negative effect for RD because it signals that your only motivation for going to Penn is the joint degree program. For ED, you are signaling enough that Penn is your #1 that it shouldn’t hurt you.</p>