<p>Just curious as to opinions on this…Would graduating from UMCP with the Honors Citation make that diploma comparable to an Ivy League diploma without honors? I’m thinking in terms of employment prospects.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>Depends on the major and which Ivy league college</p>
<p>I know I in the minority but I really dont think many employers really care about honors citation. I think they care more about rigor of course work and internship/job experience</p>
<p>^ However, honors programs kind of lead to the better internship and job offers, so it honors will help. As for the Ivies, HYP and add MIT (depends on major) and Stanford in there, yes, those could be better. The other ivies, no. An exception is engineering at Cornell - that is a top degree.</p>
<p>Frankly, I don’t think Honors makes all that big a difference in the quality of the education. Maybe Gemstones does, but there’s nothing there you cannot get at an ivy. An ivy is an ivy in part because you’re surrounded by so many bloody bright people. That won’t be the case at a state school. Yes, some of the state school people will be every bit as bright, but some will be dumber than sticks, comparatively speaking. There’s just not that depth of talent in the classroom, or motivation, or ambition, or pedigree, or wealth that you’ll find at an ivy much of the time. I went to a large state uni, and this is not a reflection on my alma mater or UMD. They have a different mission than the ivies. We’re talking the difference between Penn State’s men’s basketball, proud of its three 3-star recruits, and Kentucky with its 9 5-star recruits. Their second string will maul your first string by 24 by halftime.</p>
<p>Are you planning on going to grad school at some point? If so, then don’t waste your money on ivy league for undergrad. Employers care more about where you went to grad school than undergrad. </p>
<p>“Would graduating from UMCP with the Honors Citation make that diploma comparable to an Ivy League diploma without honors?” </p>
<p>NO, I don’t think so. The H citation doesn’t mean much, IMHO. </p>
<p>Personally, I don’t think Ivies are all that. I believe that college is what you make of it. As long as you go to a decent school, and Maryland is more than just a decent school, you should be fine. The President of PepsiCo Americas, the president of eBay marketplaces, co-founder of Google, co-founder of Outback Steakhouse, and numerous executives/founders of other businesses are graduates of UMD. Look at current and former legislators; most are not Ivy grads. Sure, having a Yale or Harvard degree will give you a leg up, but if you work your butt off towards success you will be fine. </p>
<p>And let’s not forget Kevin Plank, founder of UnderArmour…a proud Maryland grad that was part of the Hinman CEOs program.</p>
<p>Agree but you cant knock a Harvard or Yale degree especially if you get a scholarship and dont have to pay for it</p>
<p>If you get a full ride to Harvard/Yale then you should take it. But otherwise, 100k+ in loans are not worth the name. I know several kids who turned down HYPS, Duke, and Georgetown for UMD. Some were Banneker/Key Scholars. The rest weren’t. But all of them believe that that was the smartest decision they’ve ever made. </p>
<p>Name brand v generic. For some people its worth paying extra money for the brand name. However, for most people, it is foolish to pay extra money for the name brand because the generic is equally effective for far less money.</p>
<p>More impressive than an H citation is departmental honors and graduating with latin honors (cum laude, magna cum laude, summa cum laude). Employers know admission to undergrad is based on high school performance, so that’s why undergrad is less important than grad school. How you perform in college is far more relevant. So, if you feel you can only do your best by going to an ivy, then by all means that is where you should go. However, if you plan on going to grad school, know that Maryland grads have gotten into all the top schools. Not that Maryland is “generic” - it is a top public university, but only using the analogy to make a point.</p>
<p>The reason I asked about the major and particular ivy league college is from professional experience. I work at an exclusive global company in the banking industry. Candidates from HYP, Yale, P’ton or and MBA from U Penn are viewed differently then any other graduate. Managing Directors interview these candidates last and if you are from an other institution you are interviewed by a SVP and Director just to get an interview with an MD. I believe this practice is bias and unfair but it is reality. As for the monetary issue our analysts start at 180k plus bonus the 100k in student loans go away quickly. </p>
<p>Bonee26, you raised a great point. But those analyst jobs are very competitive and the chance of someone counting on those jobs when they graduate are truly slim. IMO, they are more competitive than getting into an Ivy school where they may be guaranteed to owe loans for years.</p>
<p>MarylandBro,</p>
<p>It would be very unusual for someone to go to Harvard and graduate with $100,000 or more in loans. </p>
<p>Most families won’t be charged $100K over four years, or $25K per year, by Harvard in the first place. Harvard’s financial aid is very generous. And all financial aid offered by Harvard, Yale, and Princeton is grant. No loans.</p>
<p>For most students receiving financial aid, there is a basic work/study requirement of about $4.5K per year.</p>
<p>Beyond that, for middle class families, financial aid covers most, or even all of tuition, room, board, and expenses. Families with less than $65K in income pay nothing. Between $65K and $150K, families are asked for about 10% of income.</p>
<p>So, a family with $150K in income will only be billed about $60K over four years. Even if they don’t pay a penny during those four years, and they borrow every penny, they’re not going to wind up with $100K in loans.</p>
<p>Except for Maryland, which offered him a full scholarship, Harvard was the least expensive school that accepted my son. </p>
<p>Yale and Princeton have comparable financial aid.</p>
<p>The Ivies, especially HYP, are often the bargains of private universities.</p>
<p>Notjoe, I will respectfully disagree with you. The Ivies quote financial aid numbers that completely conflict with the facts. What I have seen are that slightly more than 50% of the student body are FULL pay at those schools including Stanford and MIT. That isn’t a bargain at all! And for those handling full pay, it can still be a struggle for those parents too rich to receive financial aid. I spent several weeks reading about those realities on one of the CC threads. So, this idea that the Ivies provide such lavish aid doesn’t apply to everyone. Individuals must apply for financial aid and then evaluate the packages based on their situations and not the perception that generous money will be there.</p>
<p>Fwiw, my S is graduating (roughly middle of the class) this year from an HYP with an economics degree. He had a single “real” summer internship (after junior year) and no amazing research (though he did have a highly valued “EC”). The school is a job machine. He submitted his resumes through the school website, had lots of interviews, multiple job offers (with his choice of multiple cities) in his field (IB, consulting, finance) and is still getting calls out of the blue from prospective employers. No contacts, no family connections; all through the school’s well oiled job machine. Most of his friends had job offers (good job offers) by the end of October. Makes for a very relaxing last semester.</p>
<p>His cousin graduated with honors (and was in the honors program) from UMD a year before. Without family connections, interviews for similar jobs were few and far between. Using, however, a connection, the cousin interned at a big time consulting firm and that internship turned into the job offer across the country. </p>
<p>Both end up in similar places. </p>
<p>HYP have greater initial opportunities for those closer to the middle of the class. If you are a top top graduate from UMD, well prepared for interviews, with a good personality, there are great employment prospects. If you are a top top graduate from HYP, you are sought after and recruited for the best starting jobs - especially in finance, consulting, and banking.</p>
<p>Notjoe, you’re correct in the sense that HYP are the most generous Ivies with financial aid. However, I disagree with your statement that students will not graduate with 100k+ in loans. That only applies to the relatively speaking lowest income families. In this area, many families easily make ~150k a year. But that does not mean they are rich. Many parents don’t have the funds to spend what colleges expect them to spend. Cost of living in the DC Metro area is much higher compared to rural North Carolina, for example. But those families do not get anywhere near a free ride. If you look at financial aid calculators, a family with a household income of about 150k a year will have an EFC of ~30k-35k. 30k a year multiplied by 4 years is 120k. And that’s HYP. You go down the “Ivy Hierarchy” and the EFC increases. </p>
<p>Notjoe is absolutely correct about Harvard and Yale. There is so much endowments there that very few students have to take out loans. That is why those two schools always rank in the top of the “best buys for colleges”. They are committed to having the best students attend their institutions. </p>
<p>Personally, I believe it has less to do with the school than individual merit and what you do when you get to school. </p>
<p>If a student sees admission as the prize (whether it’s an ivy league or honors college at UMD) and either slacks off or just does what he/she needs to, expecting the world to be eating out of their hands by virtue of a school’s name/program title, they are in for a rude awakening. </p>
<p>On the other hand, a self-motivated student can achieve equal success in either environment. Both are ripe with opportunities to make yourself stand out. The question comes down to personality and fit - where does the student feel most comfortable. That is a personal choice and everyone has different perspectives. What’s right for one is not right for another. </p>
<p>With respect to honors citation from UMD, from what I understand, it is not as impressive as departmental honors at UMD since admission to honors college is based on high school performance whereas departmental honors is based on college performance. There are other honors programs like QUEST Honors Program and Hinman CEO’s that are big networking/job machines and highly selective. </p>
<p>As I said, it comes down more to the individual. Both environments have the resources that can produce stars.</p>