VandY AA Concerns?

Colleges & Universities Vanderbilt University
1

I am a black student from an underrepresented country in East Africa, and wanted to know if the posts about vanderbilt being a covert racist school especially to asian males was infact true. Anyways, my specific questions to VANDERBILT STUDENTS are

  1. How is the social life of Vanderbilt BLACK Students? Do they hang out with other races? or do they self-segregate(If yes, can i avoid segregation)
  • I saw on a site about ole miss and Alabama covertly denying black students in to their frats and parties. Does this happen in Vandy?(denying blacks into parties)
  1. Can i join a non HBCU fraternity at Vandy?
  2. Are Asians really covertly abused in vandy?
  3. Are the sororities and other white females racist to blacks?like only hanging out with other white males, ignoring blacks and only hooking up with other whites?
    Please dont tell me i am narrow and racist because i really looked into VU’s other traits( its academics, opportunities…) and i just wanted to know about social life since it really does matter especially for minorities. Any help is greatly appreciated(especially from current vandy students)

    Thank you in advance
2

These are some challenging questions to answer, but I will do my best to address them. Answers will probably vary depending on the individual, but I can offer my own perspectives. I’m a current student.

  1. Black students seem to be well integrated on campus. They definitely hang out with other races, and friend groups are usually racially diverse. The black frats/sororities have a strong presence on campus, and seem to serve as an alternative social scene to the IFC frats sororities for some students. I think it would be disingenuous to say that there is no self-segregation, as there are certain social spheres that are composed of almost all black students (the aforementioned black frats sororities, some clubs/organizations) but the degree of self-segregation is not very significant, and can be easily avoided. Students have a choice as to who they associate with, and are not pushed into certain groups based on race.
    -Although Vanderbilt is in the south, it does not have the “good ole boy” southern culture that you might find at Ole Miss or Alabama that is sometimes linked to overt racism. No, you will not be denied from a party based on your race.
  2. You can definitely join an IFC fraternity. I can think of brothers in most every frat who are black. IFC fraternities are still mostly white, but I don’t think this would be a barrier.
  3. I think this answer would depend on personal experience. The “abuse” that Vanderbilt comes under fire for is mostly associated with the accusation that asian students are not being sufficiently included in greek life or aren’t socially respected. This could be true; I just don’t really have any experiences that either verify it or deny it. However, I know asian students in pretty much every fraternity and sorority.
  4. Pretty much all the IFC sororities have black members as well, although just like with the frats, they are mostly white. I don’t think they have official events with the black frats or anything (things like homecoming pairings) but I wouldn’t say they are racist. Girls in a wide variety of sororities associate with black guys.

The bottom line: Vanderbilt is not a super racially diverse school. It is more diverse than the US population, but it is not as diverse as some other top schools are. This means that minority groups might not have quite as strong of a presence as at those schools. Vanderbilt, however, is not a “racist” school.

3

^^ Your impression of the University of Alabama is about 50 years out of date. There are more African American students at UA (by percentage or total numbers) than Vanderbilt. 60% of the students are from out of state, with significant numbers from the Midwest, Mid-Atlantic, Texas, California, Florida, and even the Northeast. Please update your racism bogeyman to match current reality. My Asian American son was accepted to Vanderbilt and a few other schools, but chose to attend UA last year.

4

NoVADad99, I’m not sure whether your comment is directed at me or the original poster, but my statement was indeed a generalization that should be taken with a grain of salt. I seriously considered attending Alabama during the college admissions process due to their generous scholarship policy towards National Merit Finalists, and understand that this policy as well as other scholarship practices have brought geographical and racial diversity.

However, to deny that elements of racial exclusivity or prejudice exist on campus would be a misrepresentation. Especially in light of the recent national news drama wherein the first black student body president in 40 years has made accusations that a racist secret society has conspired to impede and disrupt his position.

5

fdgjfg: I think the issue with Eric Spiller’s win for the SGA presidency had more to do with him being a non-Greek outsider who beat “The Machine” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Machine_(social_group)). His was a first win for a non-Machine candidate in a long time. His race may have been an issue with some, but his win counted on a large number of non-white non-Greek voters who backed his candidacy, and was so much more a non-Greek vs. Greek affair. The resulting deadlock in SGA business was the Machine fighting back against his administration.

6

Link should be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Machine_(social_group) and it should read “his win counted on a large number of WHITE non-Greek voters…”

7

Rising senior here. Everything below is my own personal experience.

1.) Black students seem to be a bit more well integrated in the Vandy social scene than other minorities, but there’s still a clear disadvantage. Most of the black students I know usually hang out with other blacks. The exceptions are the athletes, who have more diverse friend groups for obvious reasons.

-Technically, the frats can deny anyone into their parties. Usually this happens if you don’t know anyone at the frat/party or are a “random”. Nobody will actually tell you that they actively deny only blacks to their parties. They have to maintain their political correctness. However, it does seem like they subconsciously may discriminate against blacks, using the cover of “who do you know here”.

2.) It’s POSSIBLE to do so. Fdgjfg has already said a little bit about this, and I’m sure that there are blacks in every frat/sorority. However, you have to remember that the frequency is much much lower. Most frats usually take in one or two blacks so that they can seem racially diverse and deflect any criticisms. If you do get into one of those frats, chances are that you’ll probably be seen as their token black member. So yes, it’s POSSIBLE to get into one of those frats. It’s just that you have a much much lower chance of actually getting in (only 1-2 blacks per frat).

3.) I’ve already said a bit about this on other posts, but in my experience, the answer is yes.

4.) No sorority girl will ever admit that they are racist against blacks. However, the reality is that everyone has prejudices that they may not even be aware of. All you have to do is look on the internet for the sorority websites. Here are some:
http://vandytridelt.■■■■■■■■■■/
http://vandykappadelta.■■■■■■■■■■/
http://vandytheta.■■■■■■■■■■/
How many black girls do you see in these websites? I think it’s reasonable to assume that if these sorority girls only hang out with white girls, that they would only hang out with white guys as well. It just baffles me how the Greek system claims that it doesn’t discriminate, when proof of the opposite is so readily available on the internet. Don’t be fooled by the Greek system’s advertising brochures that always show a racially diverse group of students. The reality is, the stereotypes at Vandy are for the most part correct. If you’re not white, it’s going to be much more difficult to have a fun college career because you’ll have a harder time getting into the Greek system, which is what the social atmosphere revolves around.

Don’t feel bad about being “narrow and racist”. Whites may downplay the need of a social life because they are just handed one by virtue of their skin color. You’re absolutely correct that social life matters, especially for minorities. Having a bad social life can affect your mood, attitude, and motivation, which also affects your academics.

8

@NoVADad99 , those stereotypes really aren’t dated. Google “University of alabama racism” and you’ll find several appalling incidents and evidence of toxic culture from just the past year. But anyways…

Regarding some of what @derp125 said, I will say that much like Asian students in fraternity rush, we find that African American girls are pretty severely underrepresented in sorority rush – that is to say, for whatever reason (perhaps not feeling comfortable with the system), they do not participate in rush at nearly the same rate as girls of other ethnicities. Essentially every single girl who participates in sorority rush will have the opportunity to join a sorority, that’s how the system works.

9

@Pancaked, I know things like that exist, but are they of such prevalence that it will make a minority student feel unwanted at the school? My Asian kid rushed, was initiated into a fraternity at UA, and personally never experienced any type of racist behavior directed towards him. There is no school anywhere in the US where racism doesn’t exist. I’d say that they exist as much in so called progressive schools as in the deep south.

10

derp125 has contributed some good points, and as you can see, perception of Vanderbilt’s culture differs from person to person. It is good to present a variety of experiences to get the full picture.

I would say that IFC greek life is not consciously and directly racist, and its members do not think of rushes in these terms. I disagree with derp125 here, in that I very seriously doubt that the frats deviously select 1-2 “token black members” in order to purposely forestall accusations of racism.

The thing you need to understand, however, is that the greek system can be subconsciously and implicitly racist in that it is basically founded around the pursuit of styles and leisure activities traditionally associated with wealthy white people. These might include things like wearing nice brands with a relatively traditional style (vineyard vines, patagonia), or just having plenty of free time and free money to spend socializing. If you fit with the “fratty” lifestyle, and do it successfully, (there are plenty who try and emulate it and fail) you are considered to be “cool.”

Frats want cool members, so they can be a cool frat. A smaller percentage of minority groups were raised within wealthy white culture. Therefore, a smaller percentage is able to correctly espouse wealthy white culture, and therefore, a smaller percentage is considered “cool” and a smaller percentage receive bids. Minority individuals might also feel alienated by an unfamiliar culture and be afraid to participate (as Pancaked said). Basically, being black won’t keep you out of the frats, but not being able to engage with wealthy white culture can. Subsequently, some individuals feel upset that they were not able to participate in the dominant culture. Other individuals are content because they had no interest in participating in this culture anyway. It is a complex sociological knot which could have an essay written about it.

So, it would be a lie to say that there is no hint of racism at Vanderbilt at all, and this is a negative aspect. However, a huge proportion of universities in the US have social scenes dominated by greek life or other social groups based on wealth and the good ol’ boys club, so I am not sure how different it would be from other top schools. It is hard to say how it would directly affect your experience here.
Furthermore, I think it is disingenuous to say you can be completely excluded from greek life. Certain IFC frats and sororities are known to accept basically anyone who is not extremely strange or unpleasant. These groups might have a little bit less respect, but they are still a part of the system. Only the more exclusive groups at the top of the social hierarchy which are considered the “coolest” might exclude you for not being “cool” (i.e. comfortable with wealthy white culture) enough.

11

Thank you all for your insightful remarks. I hope you all are students at vu or recent graduates and parents. I have some other specific questions if you will
1)@Fdgjfg you said black fraternities and sororities are somewhat pervasive and strong, Is it in social life(parties,meetings…) or just numbers and involvement? Anyone can provide insight if they can about hbcu fraternities and sororities.
2. How would you rank and compare black social life and satisfaction at these universities
-university of southern California, Stanford(is there strong social life or full academics and intellectual), university of Miami, Vanderbilt university, Cornell university? Anyones answers Are appreciated, but really appreciate from current students at these schools.
3. Are there tryouts for men’s soccer in Vanderbilt?
4. How open minded a city is Nashville compared to NE cities
5. Fdgjfg said that there are certain frats that accept most people that are decent and fun. You said that they have less respect (can u name some and explain the type of people in that frat).
6. How about interracial dating and hookups?
Thank you in advance, sorry if the questions are a lot but I just want a complete picture of Vanderbilt

12

  1. This is somewhat difficult for me to describe, so hopefully someone with a bit more knowledge can assist me here. This is just my general perception. The black fraternities and sororities are not as dominant on campus as the IFC greek life. They have houses but each house is shared by a couple of groups, and parties are smaller and never quite as huge or wild as the parties at the IFC frats can get. What I mean by “strong” is that the black fraternities and sororities seem to always be an alternative social option for black students, and they seem very self sufficient and incorporate a large amount of the black community at Vanderbilt. Just from individuals I know, some black students socialize entirely through IFC greek life. Others socialize entirely through hbcu greek life. Most associate with both communities, and have a choice as to what they want to do on a given weekend.

  2. You would probably get better answers by posting this question in the forums for those colleges, or in a more general forum, like College Search & Selection, because you are not likely to find current students from those schools here. I would say though that places like southern California (USC/Stanford) and Miami (UMiami) are going probably going to be somewhat more diverse since they are in more populated and urban regions.

  3. Yes, there are tryouts every year for the men’s soccer team. However, it is a club team I believe, so none of the students on the team receive athletic scholarships.

  4. Nashville is a city that is very quickly changing and developing, with an influx of young professionals from the coasts. The city is definitely becoming more “open minded”, and a more “worldly” city so to speak. It is isn’t New York, but it has its own elements of diversity, such as a large population of Kurdish immigrants in a “little Kurdistan”. Directly compared to NE cities though, it might be less “open minded” since it is smaller, and still very connected to its southern roots (being the country music production capitol and everything).

  5. Basically, frats with more “respect” are more selective about who they let in. For example, Beta is a top frat, their general “type” is northeastern lax bros, and they have a reputation for getting wild. Because they are more selective, they choose the “bro-est” of the bros and have a more specific “type”, so generally, (not individually) people who git bids there are more socially confident, and really just have that natural bro mentality. A less respected frat might be ZBT or pike. They recently came back to campus and don’t have as much of an established reputation, so they aren’t as picky about who they let in, and they are a lot more varied. They have some truly cool dudes, and also some guys who are a little bit goofy, weird, or just less socially confident.

Regardless of what the reputation, you still get pretty much the same benefits. You still have parties, you still have formals, you still have tailgates, and you still meet people. The only difference might be which sororities associate with your frat as much. But that isn’t the ultimate point of being in the frat: the point is having fun with your boys, which will happen either way. Really, rushing is just making friends with the brothers, and seeing which friend group you fit in with. If you are in a “low tier” frat nobody disrespects you or anything, and it doesn’t mean you are uncool. It just means your personality fit in better with that group of people; you probably wouldn’t have had as much fun/felt integrated with a place that cuts you.

  1. This will really just be based on personal experience since I doubt there is data on this. I guess it isn’t extremely prevalent, but just off the top of my head from people I know, I can think of multiple interracial couples, and plenty of instances of interracial hookups.
13

This is only an example of one: my daughter’s friend, black, brilliant, student body president at a diverse, socially-integrated test-in high school in NYC, was a freshman at Vanderbilt last year. She was very disappointed by the lack of social integration there.

14

I mostly agree with what @fdgjfg said, but I would like to add a bit more on certain points.

1.) Black greek life is completely separate from “regular” greek life. It is very similar to the Asian clubs like AASA and VUCA. Once you get into that world, you will be removed from the Vandy mainstream, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. The point I’m trying to make is that whenever people on campus talk about greek life, the black fraternities are the last things on their mind. In that sense, black greek like is more similar to a club for blacks rather than actual greek life.

4.) My advice to you would be to stay on campus at all times in your college career. I talked a bit on other posts about how Vandy students are never outright racist to your face. Once you go into the city, they ARE overtly racist to your face. Whenever I would walk downtown at night, I would always hear people shouting racist Asian slurs across the street. There has never been an exception to this in the many times I have visited the city at night.

I realize this is an anecdote, but in my freshman hall, there were 3 Asians, 2 blacks, and many many whites. The first night at Vandy, all of the whites went out to bars. None of the minorities were invited. You can imagine how the school year went. This may be hard to hear, but from the moment you enter Vandy as a minority, you are a social outcast just because of your skin color. You will have to work much much harder to be accepted as even an equal to whites. My biggest mistake in my college career was trying to make friends with whites. I wasted time and energy doing so, which could have been better directed towards making friends with other Asians. I can’t tell you what to do, but I would strongly recommend that you put more effort into making black friends rather than trying to fit into the Vandy mainstream. There’s no reason fighting a losing battle.

15

Well that’s overwhelmingly negative. We had this discussion on another topic, but there are certainly many minority students who are perfectly well integrated into the Vanderbilt community, so it’s just silly to call it a “losing battle.” Wish they happened to read this forum.

16

I feel the same, Pancaked. I have written that my D’s AA roommate was quite content at Vanderbilt. Not everyone is looking for the same experience, and not everyone will be unhappy with what they find.

17

@derp125

As others said, I’m not sure your experience is completely typical – even of Asian students. I know many, many people who are involved with AASA, VUCA, PISO, etc, and I’m not sure any of them have ever expressed concerns that they are outcast from the rest of campus. I actually know a lot of people who are involved with both those orgs and things like ASB, residential life, honor council.

I do think it really depends on what you’re looking for though. I can definitely see how someone could feel outcast if they were looking to get involved more with the Greek side of things and were unable. Also, I think there are plenty of white students even who are not involved with ‘mainstream’ Vandy. I will say I’m not exactly certain what mainstream Vandy is – though I’d guess it involves Greek life. I think my point is just that there are plenty of people who are minorities and don’t feel outcast. There is a very active independent community full of often diverse friend groups.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to dismiss what you’re saying, but the way you phrase it makes it seem like Asian students who come to Vandy will have an awful social life which is very much not the case for the vast majority. Again, I can definitely see the frustration if you wanted to be more involved with the Greek side of things, and weren’t able to for whatever reason – just remember people have different social goals and desires.

18

I agree with what @Pancaked and @uhajn5 have expressed.

@oldmom4896
Did your friend’s daughter express that she was specifically dissatisfied with racial integration? Although I generally feel that Vanderbilt is not a horribly racist/segregated campus, one of the major problems with the Vanderbilt experience is a general lack of social integration. Social life is very cliquey and is generally static after the first semester of freshman year. People just aren’t especially friendly to each other after this point. This means that if you choose the wrong friend group early on, or if you are just extroverted and like knowing a lot of people, it can feel almost impossible to branch out and meet new friends. Your friend’s daughter might still be specifically discussing racial integration, but I just thought I would add that point to the discussion as well to possibly explain her feelings.

@derp125
If this question is too personal feel free to not answer it, but do your statements happen to come from the perspective of an international student? I ask this because you characterize “whites” in such a monolithic manner that it almost sounds like a discussion of a foreign civilization or species, which is a viewpoint which seems inconsistent with being raised in the US. To say that your most significant mistake in your college career was trying to befriend whites, and that all minorities should only bother with same race interpersonal relationships is a rather extreme opinion. Our personal experiences could simply be different, but almost every student that I can think of associates with others of a different race.

On the subject of question 4), I disagree. Nashville is not rural West Virginia or Minnesota; it is not as if the population is entirely white. It is a fairly large southern city, and 15% of Nashville’s population is black. It would be somewhat ridiculous to avoid stepping off campus in 4 years out of fear when thousands of people live their entire lives out there just fine every day.

On the subject of drunken racists: yes, I am sure they exist, and I don’t doubt that this happens. However, in what city is there not a single individual willing to yell obscenities at strangers with the help of liquid courage? Drunk whites yell ethnic slurs at other whites trying to insult their european heritage (irish, jewish, etc.). These instances are obviously not as serious or offensive as when they are directed at minorities, but they still happen.

On the subject of the first night of freshman year: I remember this night, and I am sure every other Vanderbilt student does as well. Everyone is excited for college, and a bunch of people start the party ASAP and try to find something to do. But, there aren’t any invites at all; you don’t even know people’s names yet. It was definitely an invite yourself type deal, like you just had to ask anyone “what are you up to - can I come?” I wasn’t there, so what you described could have happened. But it does sound a bit exaggerated that a bunch of white strangers decided to specifically exclude all of the minorities.

19

Yes, that’s exactly what she said.

20

Has anyone considered the fact that MANY elites (and non) tend to have racial self-segregation, including (or especially) AA (the ethnic group which I belong to)? Part of this is perhaps because of the history of the school and the fact that, from it, there has been the rise of and attempt to create separate “spaces” for such minorities (mainly AA’s but increasingly so Latinos) on these campuses. Even places like MIT have had (and may still have) issues with this to the point that there are special living communities for AA’s (my alma mater used to have the BSA house for example). At many schools, AA’s could indeed separate into their own communities without a high level of “integration”. This phenomenon is just as likely to happen at a place with a higher percentage of AA’s. I also don’t know how one could substantiate things such as “subconscious” biases in things like Greeklife selection and inclusivity, especially since many schools (Vandy also I’m pretty sure) have Greek organizations that are historically black, meaning that it is likely for a majority of AAs to choose that option. The sample size even attempting to join an organization outside of that may be too small to make any judgement.

Another stratification comes from the fact that many of those of African descent at elite colleges and universities are first or 2nd generation immigrants from African or Caribbean nations. Often these students also try to create their own “space” as well (as international Asian students are known to do). Often this gets interpreted as “self-segregation” from outsiders but it is of course more complicated than that.