<p>Sure, the negative effects of both poisons and carcinogens are dose-dependent. Nothing surprising about that. And that’s why, as I said, I try to limit the amount of meat I eat - to get it down to a relatively safe level. But making sweeping, general statements about there being “nothing unhealthy about eating meat” requires ignoring a huge body of data to the contrary and encourages others, who don’t know better or are looking for excuses for their bad habits, to keep eating a diet loaded with meat.</p>
<p>Most people in rich countries like the US do get more than enough protein in their diets for their actual activity level. Even endurance athletes typically have little problem doing so, since they eat more food, which brings more protein with it, as long as it is not junk food with a lot of added sugar and/or fat, or a high proportion of fruit (which has very low protein density compared to other natural whole foods).</p>
<p>Where protein intake can become an issue would be situations like heavy resistance training (where total food calorie intake needs do not increase as much as protein needs), and calorie restriction for fat loss (where protein needs remain the same but total food calorie intake must be reduced). In these cases, increasing the protein density of one’s food intake may be necessary.</p>
<p>^excellent ucbalumnus – I will check out those webpages. And maybe they’ll deal with how vegetarian runners avoid runner’s anemia (my other concern). I bet some of the world’s top runners are vegetarian. Thanks!</p>
<p>Just to be clear. I’m not proselytizing for eating meat. I really don’t care what anyone else eats. I was simply responding to the false assertion in this thread that “not eating meat” was somehow “healthier” than “eating meat”. If someone wants to be a vegetarian, that’s fine and dandy. As I said, I suppose there are many valid reasons for doing so. But believing that it is inherently “healthier” is the kind of false jihad nonsense that makes nutrition information so problematic.</p>
<p>Hah. I probably should have said, “most Americans do not do enough resistance training and do not eat enough protein…” Plus, the calorie restricted diet is a widespread issue. I believe that many dieters, and especially many women dieters, hammer themselves for extended periods of time with restricted calorie diets that are insufficient in both protein and beneficial fats. This diet is inevitably high carbohydrate (you have to get calories from something) and, if they are insulin resistant, probably undermines their fat loss efforts.</p>
<p>For example, the government recommended protein intake for me at my current calorie target is just 46 grams a day which is less than .3 g per pound of body weight. That’s certainly enough to keep me alive and “healthy” by some measure, but it is probably less than I need given my overall level of exercise and resistance exercise. I believe that I would be shedding lean muscle mass like crazy at that level (the so-called “skinny fat” diet). But, if you go to any nutrition site, that’s the number you will be told based on goverment recommendations. The recommendation is also that I should be eating 273 g of carbohydrates per day, nearly three times what I eat. These are not insignficant issues with nutrition advice, especially for fat loss.</p>
<p>I am by no means a fan of bodybuilding or “bulking up”. I don’t do the protein shake thing. But, I do think that most American adults would be very well served to increase their muscle mass through increased resistance training and adequate protein consumption to support muscle growth. It’s beneficial in so many ways, not the least of which is it is very helpful in combatting fat storage. in that sense, I think the excessive fear of protein, meat, and some fat consumption has been a detriment to proper healthy nutrition. We’ve got a generation that believes a bowl of cereal is like the healthiest thing evah!</p>
<p>Congratulations to your D. Is she a D-I runner? Athletic departments of some D-I schools employ sports nutritionists. In addition to seeing a nutritionist now, your D should double check what resources are available at her particular school.</p>
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<p>Have you read Born to Run? It is a fascinating book. While the tribe of runners described in that book were eating mostly plant-derived foods, they supplemented their diet with proteinaceous delicacy - roasted field mice. :)</p>
<p>Classof 2015, be careful with that book - it might plant a seed of crazy ideas into your D’s head, like running barefoot and ultra trail running (like a 100 mile run through rough mountain terrain). :)</p>
<p>Well, much of the medical establishment seems to disagree with you.</p>
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<p>I suspect, though, that the average U.S. adult eats considerably more than 2,000 calories a day; I’ve seen lots of estimates in the range of 2,700 calories per day, with some estimates much higher. At 15% protein, a 2,700 calorie diet would yield a little over 100 grams of protein, or roughly 50% more than the Institute of Medicine recommended minimum. Ample, I’d say. </p>
<p>For my roughly 100-pound D, the Institute of Medicine minimum would be 36 grams of protein. I think she gets well over that, usually in the 50+ range. And that’s pretty easy to do on an ovo-lacto-vegetarian diet which on a typical day might include some combination of:</p>
<p>1 c. “Greek” (European-style) yogurt, 18 g.
1 egg, 12.6 g.
1 c. skim or low-fat milk, 8 g.
2 oz. feta cheese, 8 g., or 2 oz. part-skim fresh mozzarella, 11.6 g.
2 T. peanut butter, 8 g.
100 g. quinoa, 14 g.; or 1 c. lentils, 18 g.; or 1 cup brown rice & beans (red, black, pinto, garbanzo), 10 g.</p>
<p>See how easy this is? It’s like shooting fish in a barrel.</p>
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<p>Well, yes, I agree with that. But one’s protein requirements really do depend on the exercise level. For people who are sedentary (i.e., most Americans), protein requirements are nowhere near the levels you suggest. Not to say that’s a good way to live. But what you’re really saying is that people don’t get enough protein to support a vigorous lifestyle that they don’t in fact live. </p>
<p>Bottom line, though, if they continue to increase caloric intake without increasing the rate at which they’re burning calories, they’ll only continue to get fatter, and unhealthier. The problem isn’t that we don’t get enough protein; the problem is we get too much of everything else, relative to our activity level. Even if we increased our activity level moderately, most people’s current protein intake would probably be adequate, and they’d prevent some of those excess carbs from turning into body fat. If we all became really vigorous exercisers, as you suggest, then we might even need to increase our protein level slightly to build muscle mass. But to suggest that, in itself, inadequate protein is a major public health problem in the U.S. is, IMO, just wildly off-base, unless it comes with major, major qualifications.</p>
<p>I’m reviving my thread because D has been vegetarian since I originally posted. She has been anemic for all that time. She has iron pills; she doesn’t take them (she says they hurt her tummy). I told her there is a slow absorption iron pill she could take; she’s not interested. She recently had a check up; she is still anemic. She will eat fish (but is very picky about the kind of fish). I bought salmon tonight (always a winner in her book). She wouldn’t eat it. Her diet consists of carbs, iced coffee, various “energy bars” (mostly sugar and fat) and sweets. </p>
<p>I thought vegetarians became vegetarians in part to have a healthier diet. I have suggested that she see a nutritionist; she refuses. I’m starting to think her desire to be a vegetarian has more to do with starting a fight than any moral or ethical code.</p>
<p>I use cast iron frying pans every day.
They are great to cook in, hold heat well, and very nice browning.
Something like that is a way to get more iron without having to take the pills.</p>
<p>My youngest is quite taken with Scott Jurek who is a vegan distance runner, and gave me a big lecture about how healthy it is. But so far her boyfriend who is healthy but far from being vegan has kept her from going off the deep end.</p>
<p>I agree that her diet is not healthy, but there are a lot of non-meat foods that are high in iron.</p>
<p>I’m vegan, and I do think about making sure I get enough nutrients. Have you discussed with her why she doesn’t care about her nutrient levels? Does she dislike vegetables or she just can’t be bothered? Would it work to try cooking healthy vegetarian food together – something with beans, spinach and tomatoes to get that iron and protein in maybe?</p>
<p>People become vegetarian/vegan for all kinds of reasons, and for many people health has nothing to do with it. It doesn’t for me. I did grow up a mother who was a nutritionist and in a non-vegetarian household that ate plant-based most of the time anyway, so I got used to filling my diet with delicious and healthy sources of protein and iron. Have you had a conversation with her about the real reasons for her dietary choice and her feelings?</p>
<p>Is she replacing dinner with an energy bar? Is she doing this even if you have good vegetarian options available? Would it be possible to have her take some more ownership of meal planning so that she can help decide what will be available for her to eat each night?</p>
<p>Thanks emeraldkity4 and eirann – many good ideas.</p>
<p>When she first told me she wanted to be a vegetarian, I told her I thought it might be a good idea to speak to a nutritionist so she could make sure she had a balanced diet. I found one covered by our insurance; I talked to the woman; I set up a tentative appointment; D refused to go.</p>
<p>I made lists of a variety of high iron and high protein foods; she pretty much ignores them.</p>
<p>I have learned to incorporate dishes like kale chips, lentil soup, tofu. Sometimes she eats them, sometimes she doesn’t. I make a mean beet salad with spinach and goat cheese; when I offered to make it for her, she was indifferent.</p>
<p>I asked her why she wants to be vegetarian; she said “it’s healthier” and what we eat is “gross”. It’s fine that she chose this path, but I think it’s a real challenge for a college student with limited access to a grocery store and kitchen to get all their nutrients if they are vegetarian. </p>
<p>Just about anything I say to her seems to set her off, so I think it would be better coming from a healthcare professional. I’m thinking I’ll ask her doctor to discuss the whole anemia/nutrition thing with her again. I’m afraid it’s becoming a mother-daughter land mine at this point.</p>
<p>It’s not a challenge to be a veg in college if you’re willing to actually just eat healthy. It seems like your D has no interest in that. </p>
<p>Does she have any vegetarian friends? Maybe you could see if they would talk to her. </p>
<p>Being anemic sucks. I don’t know why you’d want to continue going through that when the fix is so relatively easy (assuming her anemia is just from her lack of iron and not something more serious).</p>
<p>Good luck. I know I gave my mom a hell of a time in high school when I was eating poorly and wasn’t controlling my B12 deficiency or anemia. I wish I would have listened to her, it would have saved me so much pain. <em>hugs</em></p>
<p>Iron from non-meat sources is absorbed better when eaten with vitamin C containing foods. For example, beans and raw vegetables may provide this combination. Or even cereals fortified with both iron and vitamin C.</p>
<p>Of course, men and older (past child bearing age) women may have to be careful of having the opposite problem (too much iron).</p>
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<p>Her particular diet seems like a typical junky American diet with the meat removed, but not made healthy (by adding vegetables and other healthy foods and cutting back on the sweets).</p>
<p>I have been a vegan\vegetarian 2years now and became anemic and Vitamin B deficient early on, but i had to take B12 shots weekly for a month and now I just take the sl B12 and daily Vitamin D. There is a big difference in being vegetarian and a non meat eater. The latter is what many are, rather than someone who eats a plant based diet.<br>
And you might be right about why she might have chosen to become a vegetarian. Maybe ther is something else going on, battle of the wills, control, defiance. Just some thoughts.</p>
<p>My daughter was a vegetarian in college and she ate VERY well. There are tons of wonderful resources both in book form and online. I can’t imagine any of them advocate power bars instead of meals. </p>
<p>My DD’s favorite cookbook is my OLD Vegetarian Epicure book…lots of great, healthful recipes in that. Moosewood is another good one. NO mention of power bars instead of meals.</p>
<p>It’s a great food for diabetics (not an issue for your daughter or my son, but it’s probably good for everyone to keep blood sugar constant), and it is high in protein and iron. It’s a variety of chickpea. I don’t like chickpeas, but I do like chana dal. You can make hummus with it. The NY Times magazine had a great recipe a few weeks ago that I’ve been making. I add fresh baby spinach at the last minute:</p>