Verdict is in ... flat applications at Ivies Plus

<p>After years of 10 percent increases at the Ivy League plus MIT/Stanford, the number of applications went down and did not surpass 300,000.</p>

<p>In the past six years, applications went from 205,000 to 297,000 for a growth of 44 percent. </p>

<p>The fastest growing schools were Dartmouth with a 62 percent increase and Stanford with 53 percent. Cornell only grew by 24 percent. Interestingly, Brown, Columbia, Harvard, and Yale had the same growth of 49 to 50 percent. </p>

<p>Here are the details of the growth in applications for the Classes of 2011 and 2016.</p>

<p>Brown 50.13%
Columbia 49.08%
Cornell 23.99%
Dartmouth 62.61%
Harvard 49.36%
Penn 37.45%
Princeton 40.76%
Yale 49.41%
Stanford 53.37%
MIT 45.31%</p>

<p>The number of apps this year may be flat for the combined group, but some of the individual schools in that group are still showing increases, apparently offset by decreases at other schools. For example Dartmouth still continued its steady, year-over-year growth this year: numbers of apps up ~3.5% over last year.</p>

<p>where are these numbers from? I'd love to see more.</p>

<p>I believe most of this growth comes not from college population growth but application per kid growth. Maybe we are finally hitting the upper limits of just how many applications a kid (and/or his or her team) can complete in a given application season. It would be fascinating to see the application-per-student distribution year over year. The Common App would have this data.</p>

<p>@Gwen:</p>

<p>Applications</a> Surge to Berkeley and Virginia - NYTimes.com</p>

<p>
[quote]
Maybe we are finally hitting the upper limits of just how many applications a kid (and/or his or her team) can complete in a given application season.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>As long as the use of the Common App keeps growing, I doubt you'll see too much leveling. My D knocked several non-CA schools off her list at their application deadlines earlier this month because she didn't really want to hassle with the applications for schools where she didn't think she'd really want to go anyway (having already gotten acceptances from some places she likes better). Had they been CA schools, the apps would have been submitted in November, before she knew she was accepted at the other places. And several of her friend's parents told me they encouraged their kids to apply to reachy schools that they otherwise wouldn't have bothered with "because it's just another 50 bucks and a checkmark on the common app."</p>

<p>Xiggi, are Chicago and Duke not good enough for you to include in this statistical analysis of yours? Their application numbers jumped by 16 and 6 percent plus this year and their six year growth would exceed that of all 8 of these schools. It's time for you to realize that there are two other great universities out there besides Stanford and MIT that match the Ivies head to head in desirability.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Xiggi, are Chicago and Duke not good enough for you to include in this statistical analysis of yours? Their application numbers jumped by 16 and 6 percent plus this year and their six year growth would exceed that of all 8 of these schools. It's time for you to realize that there are two other great universities out there besides Stanford and MIT that match the Ivies head to head in desirability.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Lol, did Xiggi say, in his post, that Chicago and Duke aren't great university's? Where did xiggi say that the only schools that match the Ivies are MIT and Stanford?</p>

<p>
[quote]
It's time for you to realize that there are two other great universities out there besides Stanford and MIT that match the Ivies head to head in desirability.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Say what? </p>

<p>Goldenboy, you know what? It is time for me to include or exclude whomever I want to, and this in my sole discretion. The same way I have done it for years. </p>

<p>Nothing precludes you to make your own lists and give them the labels you desire. In the meantime, I will continue to present my information in the format and content I do prefer, even if does create some chagrin in Durham.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The number of apps this year may be flat for the combined group, but some of the individual schools in that group are still showing increases, apparently offset by decreases at other schools. For example Dartmouth still continued its steady, year-over-year growth this year: numbers of apps up ~3.5% over last year.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Coureur, here are the details you mentioned:</p>

<p>Change in Volume Applications in % for Classes 2016 versus 2015
Brown -7.35%
Columbia -8.01%
Cornell 3.53%
Dartmouth 2.98%
Harvard -1.96%
Penn -1.69%
Princeton -1.67%
Yale 5.82%
Stanford 6.98%
MIT 1.60%
Total -0.17%</p>

<p>This said, Dartmouth is hardly "steady" in its growth. Seventeen percent for the Class of 2012 versus 2011. The nineteen percent growth of last year is bracketed by two years of increases of 3.5 percent. Growing by leaps and bounds is more accurate than ... steady. </p>

<p>Change in Volume Applications in % for Classes 2015 versus 2014
Brown 2.69%
Columbia 32.12%
Cornell 0.14%
Dartmouth 19.21%
Harvard 14.70%
Penn 17.54%
Princeton 3.31%
Yale 5.47%
Stanford 7.26%
MIT 7.02%
Total 10.33%</p>

<p>Xiggi,</p>

<p>Where can I find data on individual schools? Have most schools listed this on their websites? I'm curious about Caltech and Harvey Mudd.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>PS. Can we conclude from your stats that the class of 2016, at least those who applied to the above schools, got a huge break over the class of 2015?</p>

<p>Perhaps Dartmouth should be considered an outlier in that it requires no additional essay in its supplement, thus inviting a quick and easy additional submit?</p>

<p>That's surprising to hear, glido, but it makes complete sense to me.</p>

<p>

He implied it by including "Ivies Plus" in the thread title and not using Chicago and Duke's application numbers.</p>

<p>

I don't particularly care what the individual feelings of posters on this site are towards particular schools but it bothers me where there's a consistent bias that completely negates the point of the thread and presents incomplete data that leads the viewership of this site forming false conclusion.</p>

<p>If you add in Chicago and Duke's numbers, you will see that this entire thread is moot and applications are actually up this year at "The Ivy League Plus" which according to most sources always includes S and M but often includes Chicago and Duke.</p>

<p>As it stands, this whole thread is moot since you don't take two of the schools whose numbers included would vastly tilt the scales into account.</p>

<p>Goldenboy there's a whole raft of schools that would be a consolidated list with Duke it could possibly be amusing to see how they fared. Despite how Dukies like to think of themselves they are not in the Ivy League +. Chicago might possibly be debatable but historically Chicago has set itself apart very clearly from the Ivy League schools with it's uncommon app and proclivity to pick certain kinds of kids so historically Chicago has not been lumped in with the Ivy League, so with the adoption of the common app it remains to be seen what Chicago's future holds.</p>

<p>
[quote]
He implied it by including "Ivies Plus" in the thread title and not using Chicago and Duke's application numbers.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Stop the BS! My post was clear and so was my title. It presented data for the 10 schools I listed. Nothing more, nothing less. No Chicago. No Duke. And no Wacahachie Junior College. If if hurts your sensibility, so be it. </p>

<p>Rather than cry about my veiled "implication" you should check your faulty inferences. </p>

<p>
[quote]
"The Ivy League Plus" which according to most sources always includes S and M but often includes Chicago and Duke.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Where did you get the idea that the term I used is a reference to that silly group?</p>

<p>Interesting given the shift to income based tuition at most of those schools. I would have expected the opposite.</p>

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<p>Well, maybe. But instead of the extra essay the Dartmouth supplement requires a unique Peer Recommendation that causes a degree of consternation among some applicants. You see threads about it all the time over on the Dartmouth board.</p>

<p>

That's funny because almost every source that exists that mentions the so-called "The Ivy League Plus" includes either Chicago, Duke or both.</p>

<p>Ivy</a> League - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The term "Ivy Plus" is sometimes used to refer to the Ancient Eight plus several other schools for purposes of alumni associations, university affiliations, or endowment comparisons.In his book Untangling the Ivy League, Zawel writes, "The inclusion of non-Ivy League schools under this term is commonplace for some schools and extremely rare for others. Among these other schools, Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Stanford University are almost always included. The University of Chicago and Duke University are often included as well."</p>

<p>History</a> of the Ivies | Education History
"While the original Ivy League consists of the eight schools mentioned above, other colleges and universities are sometimes given the moniker “Ivy” for marketing purposes. For example, schools such as Massachusetts Institute of Technology,Duke University and Stanford University are often referred to as so-called “Ivy Plus” schools, due to their selectivity and high academic standards."</p>

<p>Invest</a> Like the Ivy League? - CXO Advisory
"The following chart, taken from the paper, summarizes average returns in excess of the S&P 500 index by school type for all schools reporting in ten or more years during 1992-2005. “Ivy Plus” includes the Ivy League along with Duke, MIT, Caltech and Stanford. “Large endowment” and “High SAT” include schools in the top 25% of endowment size and average SAT score, respectively, in 1992. The Ivy Plus schools persistently outperform other schools on average by more than 3% annually, with particularly strong outperformance in 2000 and 2001. High SAT schools and schools with large endowments modestly outperform other schools. Overall, endowment returns are counter-cyclical (contrarian) with respect to the U.S. stock market."</p>

<p>

Fine, you can feel free to post whatever you want but I will also feel free to declare this thread to be garbage and let the whole community here know that is how I feel. The exclusion of Chicago and Duke makes the point you're trying to make bunk.</p>

<p>It may be an inconvenient truth to you xiggi but it's fact.</p>

<p>"let the whole community here know that is how I feel."</p>

<p>I've got news for you goldenboy,
The CC community, especially those of us here on the parents forum could not care less what you say. You have established zero credibility and impressed no one here so far with your posts. </p>

<p>Why dont you come back in 20 years when you're a parent and have some experience that perhaps gives you something to say that may be of value to others on CC. Right now all I detect is huge sense of your own self importance and an itch to pick a fight. Neither is of value here. So in the meantime,I suggest you find another forum where you can post your "facts'.</p>