<p>Thanks! I hadn’t noticed that thread before.</p>
<p>I was disappointed when William Fitzsimmons explained how Harvard admits prospective math majors (starting at 58:58 in the video): it seems to be all about acceleration and high stakes math competitions. Excelling on either of those two measures requires access to resources that most K-12 students simply don’t have.</p>
<p>I would say, then, that Harvard doesn’t really want “most” K-12 students. Yes, that eliminates some great students who have potential … but I am guessing Harvard isn’t hurting for math majors, or that would change.</p>
<p>This is kind of a tough question. Harvard wants to attract less privileged kids, and it has other ways of admitting them. But its math department doesn’t strike me as a particularly friendly place for those admits to land. It’s kind of like the Russian major. If you didn’t have Russian in high school, it’s very tough to start at the beginning and gain the skills to take the required number of upper-level courses. I’m sure it can be done, but you probably will not reach the same level in 4 years as your better-prepared classmates.</p>
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<li><p>I’d like for DS to watch the part (maybe around 40-45 minute) when the gentleman was comparing the two candidates’ essays. One had shadowed the doctor, and basically wrote what the doctor did and he watched. The other shadowed the EMT worker, but got involved with the patient. Showed that he cared about the feelings of the patient, showed compassion. And that came out in his essay. He could have given a timeline just like the first one did, but there was more passion in the second essay. </p></li>
<li><p>I also made a note about extracurriculars. It does not need to be a laundry list of everything the student has ever done. What matters is what have they done that they feel passionate about. So what if they were in 15 different clubs. But maybe one of the clubs they really got involved in and could make a difference. That’s what needs to be relayed on the app and to the admissions officers.</p></li>
<li><p>When writing or interviewing and the topic of major comes up, know WHY you want to major in that field. Not because Mom wants you to be a doctor or Dad wants you to be a lawyer. Do it because that’s what YOU want to do. </p></li>
<li><p>In regards to AP classes. To me, it sounded like it didn’t matter to them if you took them or not. I understood that they want you to challenge yourself, but not to the extent that you’re in over your head. If math is not your thing, then don’t take AP Calc just so you can say you took one more AP class. If the regular class is not going to challenge you, then take the AP class. It’s all individual … but how do they know that one person is struggling to get that B in the AP class when they really should have been in the regular class; or how do they know that A came way too easy to the student that took the regular class when they really should have been in the AP class?</p></li>
<li><p>I understood the math statement by Harvard to be in response to the moderator’s question about his comment of when you know when some one is “wicked smart” - which is just a small percentage of the total application pool.</p></li>
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One way I think you can go by the performance over more than one year. D took Honors math 9, 10, and 11. Her grades were not all that great - high 70’s to mid 80’s, but she suffered through, and she was in a class which challenged her, whereas if she were in a lower class she would have been above her pay grade as they say. I think after 3-4 years of hs, a student is going to make an impression on their teachers in some particular area or they aren’t. Of course, they could be a late bloomer, like me, but in that case it’s up to their college teachers to figure that out and the student has to manage as best he/she can.</p>
<p>As a college-level teacher, I can say that we can generally spot the ubers a mile away. Don’t worry about them, they will get noticed.</p>
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<li>In regards to AP classes. To me, it sounded like it didn’t matter to them if you took them or not. I understood that they want you to challenge yourself, but not to the extent that you’re in over your head. If math is not your thing, then don’t take AP Calc just so you can say you took one more AP class. If the regular class is not going to challenge you, then take the AP class. It’s all individual … but how do they know that one person is struggling to get that B in the AP class when they really should have been in the regular class; or how do they know that A came way too easy to the student that took the regular class when they really should have been in the AP class?</li>
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<p>^^ I have to disagree with this statement. I think you had to read between the lines. I interpreted this part as admissions of selective schools want the kids to be able to challenge themselves, get great grades and have time for extracurricular activies. </p>
<p>If choosing from a pool of 15000 students of whom 75% are qualified. You better be able to take the tougher courses, and have time for other activites. If you can’t handle that then your just not good enough for them.</p>
<p>Do you believe their statements literally, or the gentleman that was upset about being told by EVERY college tour person that you have to take AP classes if you want to be considered for the school?</p>
<p>I am not blind. My twin boys are going to get an opportunity to attend a very good school. That school might be selective/ranked or it might be the school that is best for them. Their choice.</p>
<p>My job I think is to guide them as best I can. Prepare them for life after school and to keep them motivated to do their best. Sometimes that might be a push. Sometimes it means I have to back off and let them make the mistake.</p>
<p>I believe we as parents have to be honest and know the abilities of our children. We shouldn’t push something we don’t think they can handle just to keep up with the masses. Too many parents force their children into programs that actually hurt the kids. That is one area of stress the kids don’t need.</p>
<p>What I will make sure is that they have as much information as I can find. This forum does help greatly with that.</p>
I think what beadymom was saying is that maybe you don’t have to be able to take the tougher courses in every single subject. Lots of people are super smart in certain areas but not in every single aspect of every field. Michelangelo was a genius, but we don’t generally study his poetry. Most students taking a lot of AP courses don’t take AP Studio Art. Why are they “good enough” if they can’t even produce good art?</p>
<p>There are kids that take lots of undergraduate and even some graduate math courses in high-school or earlier and these go way beyond AP courses. I imagine the same is true for other areas where you have parents that have the resources to provide for this. This seems to be well above and beyond what you can do in an individual subject compared to AP.</p>
<p>"Most students taking a lot of AP courses don’t take AP Studio Art. Why are they “good enough” if they can’t even produce good art? " </p>
<p>Syvlan, Perfect example! I love it.</p>
<p>fflmaster: The dad was mad because he was told (or was thought that he was told) that a kid should take the most rigorous schedule available. The panel tried to add the words “individualized for your child” after it.</p>
<p>In regards to the AP classes, I was thinking about my own DS. He is taking 3 APs this year as a junior and planning 5 next year as a senior. Does he really need 8 total? And 5 in one year??? He is strong in Math & Science - High A currently in PreAP Trig/Pre-Cal, AP Biology & Pre-AP Physics - so AP Calc & AP Physics will not be a problem for him next year. He is not strong in History & English - struggling to keep it in the mid-to-high B range. If it were up to me, I would suggest he take either honors (if offered) or regular history and English next year instead of the AP that he is wanting to take. </p>
<p>Would admissions officers look down on him if he took 3 AP classes next year instead of 5? I hope not! I hope that they would see that he knows his limits. But, he will probably take the 5 anyway.</p>
These admission policies encourage ambitious parents to push their students in ways that may not be healthy for their academic (or social) development. We are talking about students who’ve taken so much math in high school that they are ready to dive into PhD-level courses in their first year in college. Some of these students prosper in college, but some crash and burn in super-advanced classes. It doesn’t require much smarts to take college-level math classes in high school; it suffices to get accelerated from an early age on. </p>
<p>Fwiw, Stanford’s math department has decided not to let high school students attend classes. They have found that most high school students inquiring about this option care more about college admissions than they care about learning math.</p>
I interpreted his interview differently. I recall him saying that they cannot identify “wicket smart” students on the basis of grades and test scores because most applicants have outstanding grades and test scores. Then he gave math majors as an example of how they identify the most promising applicants.</p>