<p>^^I guess that by the time my kids would have been of the age to attend a party like that, they would have been well instructed by ME about personal choices and responsibility. My kids do not feel at the helpless mercy of an idiotic adult offering alcohol, thank G-d.</p>
<p>My experience is even the most ‘well instructed’ 15 year olds (the youngest age at the party d attended where alcohol was served by adults) still may make bad choices when it comes to alcohol, and it is certainly not helpful if they receive the encouragement of adults to make them. </p>
<p>And I don’t make the assumption young people who make mistakes in judgement regarding alcohol (especially when a respected adult, as is supposedly this VA mom, puts the seal of approval on the behavior) have somehow had inferior parenting or inadequate instruction. Or perhaps you didn’t mean to imply that?</p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.c-ville.com/index.php?cat=141404064434008&ShowArticle_ID=11041106073850983[/url]”>http://www.c-ville.com/index.php?cat=141404064434008&ShowArticle_ID=11041106073850983</a></p>
<p>So is this basically what happened (ie that there was never talk of no jail time) , or if they had taken the deal would they likely not served any or part of the 90 day sentence? The only reason I can think of for not accepting a no jail time verdict (again it’s not clear here that that was ever an option) is if they would have had to plead guilty to a more serious charge (which could have impacted them insofar as applying for a job, for instance) .</p>
<p>But this article makes it seem that the Robinsons refused to take a 90 day prison sentence (the deal offered by Camblos) and instead took their chances in court. There were some issues in the case related to improper search and seizure - their attorney probably thought they had a chance to win on the basis of that or if worst came to worst, I think the most severe sentence that had ever been handed down in that jurisdiction for this crime was less than the deal offered here ( so the offer was rejected as a “bad deal”) Considering the publicly stated platform of Camblos, who was committed to the issue of underage alcohol issues, this was (obviously) very risky advice.</p>
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<p>I didn’t imply anything about other people’s kids. I spoke only of my own.</p>
<p>I agree with Berurah…Hi, Berurah…long time :)</p>
<p>I would not even consider supplying alcohol to my son’s friends and acquaintances. While we allow him to sip wine at meals on special occasions (cultural thing), I don’t believe that we have the right to circumvent legal and parental prerogatives regarding legal drinking age. I know that I would feel sick if I served alcohol and the child became ill or drove under the influence, etc. I think it is the height of irresponsible parenting to do what that couple did.</p>
<p>My son has been well informed about making responsible choices in life. I would be incensed if he attended a party at which alcohol was served, placing my child at risk. And, I would certainly want the book thrown at me, if we carried out similar irresponsible acts.</p>
<p>The prosecutor made it clear that the case didn’t have to go to trial at all. Likely a pre-trial, no charge, agreement of guilt and performance of community service in lieu of prosecution. The Robinsons wouldn’t agree with it, and decided to go to court. Then the prosecutor cut the 90-day deal, but because the parents decided they wanted to go to court, there was guarantee that the judge would accept it. They played roulette and lost.</p>
<p>I don’t think “they should just start arresting or jailing” anyone. (And I feel no differently about smalltime drug pushers.) Once they were arrested, the parents could have accepted responsibility, walked away without trial, and without spending a single hour in jail. (In our community, they would have locked them up overnight, and let them out in the morning, without charges filed if they had agreed to community service and/or appropriate restitution.) </p>
<p>Changing community norms WILL require more than locking up misguided parents. More - but not necessarily in lieu of. But this is something I see all the time - minor drugpushers getting bad legal advice ending up with a judge who rejects a “deal” in favor of a sentence within the judicial guidelines given to him by the legislature. </p>
<p>Frankly, I don’t think they did anything for the kids’ safety. I have the articles from the Journal of the American Medical Association on the links between early initiation of alcohol use and future alcohol-related problems, and they aren’t pretty. I’m sure the parents THOUGHT they were doing the right thing. Well, they thought wrong, not once but twice, three courts including the U.S. Supreme Court disagreed with them (what a waste of judicial resources), and now they will have to take responsibility for it.</p>
<p>
Oh good! Someone knows exactly what happened. Where’s the link to support this?</p>
<p>Here is a link to the actual court opinion of the Virginia Supreme Court (hopefully it will work)that provides a nice factual summary that was stipulated to by both of the parties: <a href=“http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvtx/1060417.txt[/url]”>http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvtx/1060417.txt</a></p>
<p>I live in the general Charlottesville vicinity. Speaking from experience, it is easy enough for kids to get alcohol (yes, I am a parent and have learned some hard lessons courtesy of my oldest son). I don’t think parents should make it any easier for them. It is a really sad case but speaking for myself, I am frustrated with those who would provide minors with alcohol, regardless if they intended to keep them “contained”. It is a hard lesson for everyone involved in this case to have to learn but if it keeps any other parent from doing the same foolish thing it will have had a positive impact, in my view.</p>
<p>Thanks for the link sabaray. Very interesting that the parents did NOT take up everyone’s car keys or take the measures they claimed to prohibit kids from leaving the party after all.</p>
<p>Also, it does seem as though the parents initially did plead ‘not guilty’ throwing themselves on the mercy of the court.</p>
<p>Newsweek just published a long story about this issue:</p>
<p>"Oklahoma and Connecticut are the latest states to enact legislation forcing parents and other adults to take responsibility, essentially, for what gets consumed under their roofs. Previously in Connecticut, anyone could hold a drinking party on private property, and minors could drink at home regardless of whether their parents were present. The new law specifies that those under 21 can drink at home only if a parent or guardian is around. In Oklahoma, if someone tolerates underage drinking that later results in a fatality, they can be sent to prison for up to five years.</p>
<p>In New York’s Nassau County, legislators are now considering a bill that would punish adults whose homes are the site of underage drinking whether they knew of the partying or not. (Exceptions in 31 states allow parents to give their own kids alcoholic beverages, though the conditions and locations vary. There’s no truth to the rumor that parents can legally pass out beers to their kids’ friends if their parents sign a waiver.)</p>
<p>Legal considerations aside, some parents argue that its safer to let kids drink at home under supervision rather than away from adult eyes. Many experts, however, disagree.
“In many cases parents do this under the false assumption that they are protecting their kids. They make the assumption that they won’t drink elsewhere and that’s not true,” says Robert Lindsey, director of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence. </p>
<p>In addition to drunken-driving accidents that too often end tragically, teen-drinking parties can spawn sexual assaults, stabbings, brawling and neighborhood vandalism. “We all know we’re fooling ourselves if we think underage drinking is fine,” says Stacy Saetta, a legal policy researcher at the Center for the Study of Law and Enforcement Policy in Felton, Calif. “Simply to say it’s a rite of passage isn’t good enough.” Even when parents think they are doing the right thing by gathering car keys of partiers, “kids still get away and still drive drunk,” she said. “These parties are very, very dangerous.”</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19251324/site/newsweek/[/url]”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19251324/site/newsweek/</a></p>
<p>When I was 15, my father told me, “You know where our bar is. When your friends are here, it’s off-limits. Why? Because if they have a drink and their parents find out, I go to jail. And I don’t want to go to jail.”</p>
<p>You know, that was something that my 15 year old mind could wrap itself around!</p>
<p>Chedva -you obviously had respect for your dad. The 15 yr old boy whose party ruined his family didn’t have that respect. Instead, he threatened that if his parents didn’t have alcohol at his party that he would go out and drink. So his parents throw a party - can you spell dysfunction? With that attitude, there should have been no party and the only way he would have gotten out of the house would have been over my dead body. We don’t know what would have happened down the road had this not happened, but I predict that this kid was headed for trouble.</p>
<p>Chedva~</p>
<p>Our kids have that same respect for us, and we feel very fortunate. </p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>“Very interesting that the parents did NOT take up everyone’s car keys or take the measures they claimed to prohibit kids from leaving the party after all.”</p>
<p>My guess is that the parents didn’t do the above because they were too busy having fun with their kids’ guests. In other words, the parents were probably drinking, too.</p>
<p>What do you do if you live in a place where the parents aren’t like-minded on this issue? At the party where the a–s served beer to 12 yr. olds, none of the parents took issue with it. Only us! Everything’s hush hush its OK…I feel like these kids are going to really be over the top in the next couple of years (now they’re 14) if they’re being exposed to parents like that at 12!</p>
<p>
dke~</p>
<p>This must be <em>really</em> hard for your family! I’m sorry that YOU are made to feel like the “odd man out” for making responsible choices as a parent. I can sort of relate to this…not so much on the subject of parents providing alcohol, but just in general. We are of very different mentalities from many of the people who live in our small town. Out of sheer luck, our kids have managed to become friends with others who are similar in terms of the partying thing. None of my kids has been a “partier,” despite the fact that these parties DO occur here–with some of the parents serving as drinking “enablers.” Fortunately, there are enough others here that my kids aren’t forced to socialize with those who do things that are contrary to their beliefs (and our rules). </p>
<p>Fact is, there are ALWAYS going to be adults who choose to give dangerous messages to our kids out of some misguided sense of being “hip” or “cool.” Back when my brother was in high school (mid 80’s), he got ridiculed MERCILESSLY and PUBLICLY for being a non-partier, and this ridiculing came from a TEACHER AT HIS SCHOOL!!! Only difference between then and now? That teacher got canned <em>rofl</em>.</p>
<p>This is why, however, I am <em>NOT</em> content to bestow my trust for my children’s safety upon ANYONE except THEM…and us, their parents. Someone on this thread said she felt “betrayed” when an adult offered her child alcohol. I wish I had the FAITH in the first place to feel betrayed! 
</p>
<p>The <em>ONLY</em> thing that is within our children’s control is their own free choice. Better to concentrate on that, IMHO.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
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<p>Absolutely agree with you, berurah! If the kids internalize certain standards of behavior and make these standards their own, then they will be more likely to live up to those standards when mom and dad are no longer in situ.</p>
<p>If not, it’ll be another episode of “freshmen gone wild.”</p>
<p>ellemenope~</p>
<p>It really IS nice to hear someone agree with this. Sometimes I feel like I’m the ONLY one to have this level of trust and belief in my children. </p>
<p>I often see on these boards references to the notoriously irresponsible teen behavior. While I do agree that 1.) teens develop at very different rates and 2.) that <em>some</em> teens have a propensity for making foolish and short-sighted decisions, I in no way feel that this is a universal condition.</p>
<p>I guess maybe I feel this way because I myself was a very responsible teen and young adult, always guided by my conscience, thoughts of my future, and respect for my parents and for the law. That’s how I KNOW that not every teen behaves in the same way, and this is something that I communicate DAILY to my children in various forms.</p>
<p>For example, in a time when EVERYONE tried pot, I never did. Not even once. I wasn’t particularly curious about it, nor was I interested in possibly compromising my health or the health of my future children. Maybe a crazy way for an 18-year-old who didn’t have her first child until age 28 to think, but my point is, it happens-----and it is happening NOW with my own children who, so far, have made excellent choices, probably for the same reasons I did.</p>
<p>I get a little frustrated when I see the messages constantly given to kids that they are EXPECTED to screw up. To me, that is very close to enabling this behavior. Sure, we ALL screw up, but I am careful to tell my kids that there are SOME mistakes that you simply CANNOT afford to make–because they WON’T be fixable. Mistakes like killing yourself or someone else by drinking and driving or by consuming too much (or encouraging the overconsumption of) alcohol or drugs. And my kids have LISTENED to this message. For whatever reason, and BELIEVE ME, I am <em>NOT</em> complaining <em>ROFL</em>, they HAVE listened to me on this issue.</p>
<p>When we look to others to protect our children with regard to alcohol (parents of our kids’ friends, bartenders, restaurant owners, retail liquor store employees, etc), we may find ourselves VERY disappointed in the results. To me, the ONLY option is to foster SELF CONTROL in our young people. It works. It really, really can be done. I am doing it.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Well I’ll bite on this one given I think all these latest comments slingshot off of my simple statement that I felt betrayed when a good friend, who knew our family’s position on underage drinking, offered my child and her friends alcohol in their home. </p>
<p>I don’t think it is unreasonable to expect other adults to respect boundaries when it comes to children who are not their own…whether it be offering them illegal substances, or assuming ANY role that usurps parental authority or interferes the parenting function of another. </p>
<p>And while it is certainly ideal to build a strong core of self worth for a young person to rely on when decisions become difficult or confusing, a parent should always prepare themselves for the day their own kid ‘screws up’ and succumbs to peer pressure. When that happens it does not mean bad parenting has occurred. In fact, these are the times when good parenting skills are honed.</p>
<p>Isn’t it funny berurah? We have such different approaches to parenting, yet our kids seem to have turned out equally well. Goes to show…there is more than one way to skin a cat. ;)</p>
<p>Another person who went through the 60s-70s without trying drugs…never interested me.</p>
<p>(Smelled pot at concerts, though…)</p>