Visiting reaches to motivate the student?

Parents Forum
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<p>Has this worked for anyone? We have a six day trip planned in Feb. to four of our junior D’s reaches. (We’ll also visit family, so this will be both focused and fun.) The schools would all be high matches or low reaches except for her low test scores. I am secretly hopeful she’ll be motivated by the trip to study to improve her testing, but I’m wondering (asking you) whether we should face reality and get her to focus on schools where her test scores are in range. </p>

<p>D is an intensely motivated person and a high achiever in most respects; but, she’s not a big reader and for whatever reason, her CR/W scores are painfully low. At these LACs (Vassar, Wes, Wellesley and Bowdoin) her one-sitting 1750 in Dec. junior year puts her below the 25%ile. She took a prep course in fall and the 1750 reflects good improvement from her last year’s practice PSAT, but I’m concerned this score may be near her best. She’ll try the SAT again and sit for the ACT later, but we’ll make this trip first.</p>

<p>We have a son at a Carleton and I believe our D would be successful in a similar environment. She has already decided to apply only to private residential LACs, so the question is how high to reach and whether this trip is a waste?</p>

<p>She will of course apply to true safeties and matches, but do you think this trip could help in any way? (Only one of these schools even considers level of applicant’s interest.)</p>

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<p>The only motivator would be if you don’t think she’s working up to her capacity. Then you can help light a fire under her. If her test scores reflect her capability, exactly what motivator are you providing?</p>

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<p>My younger son said if we’d taken him to visit Yale, he would have worked harder. Instead he saw Harvard (our alma mater and we were there for a reunion) and didn’t like it. I think he’s just blowing a lot of hot air. He did fine, but did not get into Harvard or in fact any school with less than a 20% acceptance rate. He had a very high CR score (790), but a 690 in math and writing. That put him in the top 75% for CR at every school he applied to, but on the cusp of the bottom 25% of math for most. </p>

<p>I think it’s unlikely at this point that your daughter’s score would be hugely increased by being inspired by college visits, but you never know. Some people have managed to bring up their scores with a lot of serious prep work. If she’s not a big reader, she may be better off at a school that is a little less high powered. She might also benefit from the test optional schools if you feel her scores don’t give the real picture of her abilities. </p>

<p>BTW if you are looking at Vassar, I suggest you also look 45 minutes up the road at Bard. It appeals to many of the same kinds of students, but is considerably easier to get into. In addition to getting inspired by reaches, I think it’s even more important for a student to find a safety they can feel good about attending.</p>

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<p>From a high schooler’s perspective, I think the motivation is “oh, this is so exciting, I can live away from mom / dad and have a college life.” I have the feeling that YOU think seeing these colleges would be motivating for her, but that she won’t actually find them motivating and that she may be content with a “lower” level college than what you would like. I sympathize, since I had a lot of ego tied up in this!</p>

<p>I don’t really see the point of visiting 4 reaches like that. It’s easy to find reaches that are appealing and likeable. I think you might be better focused on some good matches and safeties. Best of luck.</p>

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<p>I guess I have to question the idea of trying to get her into a tough school for someone that doesn’t like to read and has that low of test scores. Sure, they can come up but not usually by THAT much to make her a viable candidate for those schools. I think you need to focus on more realistic choices for her and not pressure her to go to a school that is outside of her capabilities.</p>

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<p>Are you thinking that if she loves these schools that she’ll somehow be motivated to raise her CR and W scores? </p>

<p>I agree with what PG wrote. I would visit a variety of schools that might fit her. Don’t worry so much about her getting into a school like her brother’s. There are many other LACs or whatever that will love to have your child and she’ll thrive. </p>

<p>If your D does get inspired to maybe work again with an SAT tutor, then fine. But, as you said, her recent score may be the best she’ll get. </p>

<p>Also have her take the ACT…some do better on that. </p>

<p>Be very careful that you’re not sending her some message that you’ll be disappointed if she doesn’t get the scores or attend a top school like her brother. Your D’s future success does NOT depend on attending a Carlton-like school. Not at all. </p>

<p>BTW…also look at Wake Forest…it is test optional. I think it may be the highest ranked test optional school. It’s highly ranked, if that’s your goal.</p>

<p>Just an aside…if she doesn’t like to read, I wonder why the interest in LACs? What is her career interests? Maybe a LAC isn’t best for her anyway.</p>

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<p>My daughter was motivated by visiting a low match at the end of her sophomore year. She liked it okay… but she told me later that in her mind she said, “I want to go someplace better than this.” She worked harder in her junior year, studied for the SAT, and ended up with great merit aid at a school that worked out very well for her.</p>

<p>I do think it is much harder to raise a CR score than a math score. I think a good CR score is mostly the result of a lifelong reading habit. You need to make sure she is visiting and focusing on match schools for the most part. A couple of reaches are fine, but the likelihood is that she will end up at a match school. If you neglect them in your visiting and evaluation process, she may not have choices she really wants in spring of her senior year. Test optional schools are also a good idea to explore. Bowdoin and Mount Holyoke are a couple to consider.</p>

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<p>Unsure of the meaning behind this comment. What’s the difference between a liberal arts major at an LAC and a liberal arts major in the College of Arts and Sciences at a research university? I have a kid at each and frankly, I don’t see what essential difference there is between, say, a history major at the LAC or a history major at the research university, aside from the fact that the one at the research university is at a bigger school). Maybe it’s because I didn’t go to one, but I don’t really see a difference between an LAC and a college of arts and sciences within a larger uni.</p>

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<p>I would visit at least some the reaches - One reach was a huge motivator for my son. He came home determined to work on his CR score - got it up by almost 100 points, and ended up getting into his dream school. I also don’t think you can trust December junior year scores.</p>

<p>Agree about including safeties - Bard is a great idea. Also consider Colby, Bates, Bennington, Connecticut College, Skidmore and Sarah Lawrence - similar to the schools you mentioned, but less selective.</p>

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<p>This tactic worked for me with my D :)</p>

<p>Seeing the possibilities first hand kept the correct amount of fire under her a$$ - we did not visit schools that the family wouldn’t pay for and did have the correct amount of safeties too.</p>

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<p>For the first official visit, DH took D1 to H and she wasn’t motvated at all (the crush of interested kids turned her off.)
Your 4 are great schools- and beautiful campuses. This may sound odd, but early on, when I had a chance to take D1 to UVA (a school I love,) I was very concerned its beauty (and my excitement) would make every other school seem like less, throw off her sensors. So, we made some quick local trips before that, to give her some perspective. Places we didn’t necessarily think she’d fall in love with, where she exceeded their expectations. It was when she saw what she didn’t want, that she became more directed. In the end, she was very able to guage what would work for her.</p>

<p>Best wishes.</p>

<p>ps. look up the Fair Test list of test-optional colleges.</p>

<p>Oh- and you know the weather can be very crappy up here, in Feb, right?</p>

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<p>My nephew said after he saw G’town he wished he had worked harder in school. He is at Vandy so I don’t know how much harder he would have had to work.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your thoughtful replies. There are a couple relative safeties on her list (Trinity in San Antonio, Rhodes.) Although I think she’d be happy and successful at either, her comment has been that there are not enough “it-getters” in the crowd. </p>

<p>I am working on turning her thinking around, but I’ll give examples: sitting in on an econ class, she was the only one responding to the prof’s questions and did not enjoy the experience. A tour guide spent a lot of time talking about his vibrant social life and mentioned his major is communications - she did not like that he was the type the school put forward to entice others to attend. </p>

<p>She wants a cohort of smart, engaged, articulate students with passion and depth, a school filled mostly with students with very high aspirations and the motivation to get there. Although we’ll go ahead with the top 10 visits, I’d like to help her find schools in between those and her safeties.</p>

<p>We’ll look at Macalester, Oberlin, Univ. of Richmond, possibly Bates, and maybe those will turn up a better fit. Bard is a thought. I don’t think anyone from Texas typically considers Bard, so that should provide an advantage in admissions. Where else do you suggest? </p>

<p>Comments about her not being a reader are well taken. She reads for her classes, but doesn’t love reading for the sake of reading. She is, as I’ve said, a high achiever academically with nearly straight As and mostly AP courses this year and an enormous load of truly impressive ECs. I think her lack of free reading contributes in a big way to her low SAT score, and it might indicate that an extremely rigorous school would be too much of a challenge. </p>

<p>So, ultimately I might be wrong about her. We might just have a plain-old, above average daughter whose scores reflect her true academic abilities. And, for that I appreciate your encouragement to get my own ego out of the way. Easier said than done, but I’m working on it.</p>

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<p>I don’t see the point of taking her on a tour of tantalizing schools where she has very, very little chance of getting in. You say she is very motivated already: what is this going to motivate her to do, other than to feel badly about herself? You didn’t give a breakdown, but I’m assuming something like M700 CR 525 W 525.</p>

<p>Since she has great course rigor, grades, and ECs, I would take her to the test-optional elites instead, as well as a safety. I’d suggest Bowdoin, Bates, Smith, Mount Holyoke, Bard, and Skidmore and Wheaton as safer schools (although I don’t think the latter has the kind of intellectual atmosphere she wants.) Bates is NOT significantly easier to get into than Bowdoin: don’t be misled. It is a school with plenty of the kind of people she likes, though.</p>

<p>Although some prep may well increase her scores, I don’t think that one can make up for a decade of reluctant reading in a couple of months. (Actually, from your description of her, I wonder whether she might have an undiagnosed LD or vision issue that affects her reading…)</p>

<p>The test-optional schools are great. She should not feel as if she is “settling” by visiting them.</p>

<p>Edit: I cross posted with you, so did some editing as a result.</p>

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<p>niceday–Just be careful about using excuses as to why she didn’t get the scores she has. You have to keep in mind that all the other kids that are applying at those top schools are equally as busy, taking at LEAST AP classes and still get the high GPA’s and test scores. Right now she has zero chance of getting in to the reach schools you mentioned. I have to agree that I just don’t know that it’s worth visiting those schools until you see some major improvement in her test scores–she will need to be at least in the 2200 range to get into those schools–or 32 on the ACT. Even Trinity and Rhodes are not a safety for her as her scores are under the 25% for them too.</p>

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<p>Bates and Bowdoin are both test optional! And Bates loves kids from other regions.</p>

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<p>As do many kids who have not done the legwork to get into them. She may have to settle for a school where there are SOME kids like that, not lots of them. My D1 just graduated from Dickinson, and found SOME kids like that – enough to have a very good college experience. But she was also able to take advantage of all the opportunities the college offered, and graduated near the top of her class. Got a good job, too.</p>

<p>If I were you, I would encourage her to only apply to test-optional reaches.</p>

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<p>My son’s SAT CR went up over 100 points from PSAT in Fall to SAT in Spring. Kids learn a lot Junior year especially if they have an advanced writing class. Son had some coaching in SAT prep which helped. Consider looking at schools with strong honors programs. That gets her in with who she identifies with. We only looked at one reach, didn’t get in. I don’t think that is what motivated him. He loves the school he is at now-state flagship, but he is in honors with “his tribe” and doing very well.</p>

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<p>You know your own kid best, but I’d have to agree with most of the posters here: Go to one or 2 reaches in case that might motivate her, but add several “likelies” as they called them at one of my kid’s schools. It’s a beautiful thing to have your kid in love or even “in like” with at least a few schools that will likely love them back!</p>

<p>Also, consider having her take ACTs next, not the SATs. Some kids, even not-avid readers, really do so much better on the ACT. No penalty for guessing, which seems to liberate some kids…And my own kids felt the ACT didn’t try to “trick” them as much. Then she could re-take whichever test (SAT or ACT) she did best on. I wish I’d had our second kid do it that way instead of SAT, SAT then finally when he was almost burnt out, the ACT. Which he did markedly better on but is a non-reader like your kid.</p>

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<p>^^^^</p>

<p>As usual, I agree with SteveMA.</p>

<p>To me, there is a difference between a “reach” and a “zero chance.”
The schools mentioned are, agreed (given the current situation) not going to happen.</p>

<p>I took the approach that visiting what I call “possible reaches” would be an incentive.
I’ll let you know in about a year if it was successful or not. ;)</p>