Again, you are kind of proving the point of the holistic approach. Those kids got in because of quantifiable things like test scores and sports credentials. Granted, those quantifiable things were faked, but they were boxes checked.
Statistics are easy to game. Other things may not be.
I believe itās easier to lie about your child winning made up awards and volunteering than SAT scores and transcripts.
There arenāt any holistic schools that I know of that practice top down admissions, or that want a class comprised only of the highest stat applicants.
Specifically at VT, the essays are make or break for many. VT seems relatively upfront by publishing the factors they consider when evaluating applicantsā¦that list includes many things beyond GPA and test scores, some are objective (first gen, ethnicity, etc), some are subjective (essays, etc) https://vt.edu/admissions/undergraduate/apply/freshman-requirements.html
Building a class that includes students from a variety of backgrounds and skill sets unfortunately means there isnāt room for only students with the highest stats.
If VT wanted to admit a class based only on stats they wouldā¦and there still wouldnāt be room for all the high stat applicants, especially in engineering, CS, and business.
Does anybody know how students would be notified if they start pulling off of the wait-list? Mail, Email, just keep hammering the portal, or something else?
I am really confused as to what you are trying to insinuate with grade inflation. Considering virtually all other kids in the school, all with lower GPA (if inflation was taken into account, why only those with the highest inflated grades? Fair question).
The ultimate in grade inflation is when a school district sets up specialty centers to bring the best and brightest to the failing schools. While there are some academic advantages to the kids (at least on paper), the biggest advantage is to accreditation in that it inflates the overall performance of the school without really having to improve the education for the zoned population.
@ShenVal18 why no enthusiastic yays where she was offered? Because she did not even apply to those schools. This was her number 1 (really, I donāt understand why).
My assertion about college admission are out of whack? Ok, hearsay statisticsā¦ and I admit hearsay, would love to do an investigative report to see what they really are in our local schools. Based on a sample of childās friends, about 80% of those outside the top 10 who applied were accepted to VT, 2% denied, 18% wait listed (it is a high acceptance rate, most are IB students). Of the students in the top 10, 13 of 15 were wait listed (or about 13% accepted) at least none were rejected. Yes hearsay, not a scientific study, but eye catching. What am I missing?
For a living I look for trends, I look for answers. If there is a trend I am missing here, point it out. It just simply appears that of the candidates they chose to wait list, the majority were on the high end of the qualified applicants, at least locally. The local statistics appear to show that the action was a conscious decision because while statistically possible, it is on the improbable end of a normal distribution.
If they intentionally did this, that is fine and dandy, but tell us. Donāt hide behind holistic and āwe pick the classāā¦
@ShenVal18 I am not looking to have my opinion changed, I am looking for somethingā¦ anything, that makes sense. The most sense I have seen is, āgrowing painsā and ānot preparedāā¦ which speaks of the administration, not the quality of education. I work with MANY Tech engineers and they are all wonderful, well versed engineers. I have no doubt about the quality of their education.
It really does look like Tech was unprepared for the applications, made a conscious decision to take the approach (whether a good approach or not) they did and now there are lots of questions they are not answering while many students are scratching their heads.
I thought Tech announced they would be doing holistic review in summer 2018-ish. I donāt think they shifted in the middle of the application period.
@Makingsense
I know your numbers are just anecdotal, but I would think that the school GCs would be interested. Do you have Naviance? What did last year look like for your school?
Actually, VT could end this discussion right now with real data (and I know there are VT admin people reading and likely posting here). Provide statsā¦ they are all at your fingertips, it would take minutes to run. This would take all bias from the discussion.
Provide the following stats by class rank (in percentages)
Top 10
Accepted
Wait listed
Rejected
Top 10%
Accepted
Wait listed
Rejected
Top 20%, 30% etc
Same
If all stats between groups are about the same, then random wait list (meaning ratio of accepted to WL is about even). If it is skewed in one direction or another, what does the trend say? Of course one would expect the rejections to go up as the ranking went down, but what about acceptance and wait listing?
It would even be more interesting to see the breakdown between schools.
I am not familiar with Naviance, I can check with the GC. Great idea!
This data would be incompleteā¦in the 2017/18 CDS (The most recent one) only 50% of matriculating freshman submitted a class rankā¦I expect that number is even lower now as HSs continue to drop reporting class rank, because it tends to harm students.
@Makingsense
Are you familiar with the Common Data Set?
I see you have never seen Naviance data. That is a great place to start. You can see, historically, the stats of students admitted from your HS. Keep in mind it will not show holistic criteria or who got in as athlete etc.
After each complete application cycle is when data gets published. All schools publish the same data. The schools then usually communicate some of that data on website or flyers.
The biggest issue with these data sets, including Naviance, is they donāt break things down by major. And as we can see, Engineering at VT is a lot more selective than most other majors, so those numbers are quite skewed.
At this point, it really doesnāt matter why your son or daughter got wait-listed, so looking into statistics and history doesnāt really matter. I doubt anybody is going to change anybodyās mind. Just hope for the best and look forward to finding your child the best possible landing spot. They will most likely need to accept an offer somewhere else even if they do get selected off the wait-list.
On that point, my earlier post was small and squeezed in between the various lengthy posts, so please excuse me asking againā¦how would a student be notified if they are selected from the wait-list? Does anybody know?
@sunnyschool Yes, I am familiar with the common data set.
Is Naviance anything like Parchment (which is what was used for our child). The Parchment analysis gave her a 95% chance of getting into VT. Of course that is only a computer algorithm, speaks nothing to wait list, does not include other variables, etc. Almost like having a computer code determine your homeās worth, might be a good place to start, but not all things are considered.
That is a problem, May 1 (which is when I was told they would have a better idea of wait list) is too late for most as decisions have to be made.
If I understand correctly (and I may not), sometime after May 1, if selection is made, you will be notified. I doubt they will tell you if you were not chosen.
Naviance actually provides you with the last 3 years of data from your childās high school, what their GPA and SAT scores were, and whether they got denied, deferred, wait-listed, or acceptedā¦as well as whether they attended. Itās pretty interesting information, since it is peer data. However, if your school doesnāt use it, then you wonāt see that data.
@Makingsense - Naviance is extremely valuable if your school uses it. Because the data is from your school only. It plots GPA on one axis and SAT on the other, and every applicant is a dot on matrix - accepted, waitlist/accepted, waitlist/denied, etc. The Naviance also displays your student as a dot on matrix. Extremely valuable as students are mostly completing with other students in their same school, especially in populated areas like Nova.
I have also read a lot of the comments on holistic view point. I couldnāt agree more. My son has a high GPA and SAT score, but still barely broke top 100 in his class with a 4.2 and 1470. He was offered a full tuition scholarship - but think it had a lot to do with his leadership, community involvement and work.
I donāt know how VT notifies waitlist students that they have gotten off the waitlistā¦most schools call, and the student has a day or two to decide whether or not to accept the offer. Students can get off some waitlists throughout the summer.
While it is possible a given school can go to the waitlist before May 1, itās generally after May 1ā¦meaning all waitlisted students should have already deposited elsewhere. If a student does get a waitlist offer, they would likely lose the deposit at the school they did commit to.
Typically those not getting off the waitlist will not be notified, and at some point the school will say we have closed the waitlist, meaning the class is full.
Regarding Parchmentā¦it has unreliable, incomplete data, some of which is self reported. Soā¦do not use it or rely on any recommendations or results from that site.
Your wait list info is about how I understand it too.
I never trust those ācheck out your XXXXX score hereā apps. They may be able to provide you with some relative data, but nothing to hang your hat on.
I was a big fan of college raptor until none of their statistics lined up to reality for my son. LOL
Naviance is specific, real data from your HS (as each HS has a customized Naviance portal). Naviance shows 3-10 years of data, # applicants from your HS, accepted/denied/waitlisted on a chart showing SAT or ACT and GPA.
You will be looking at 2019 and prior data.
(It is far better than Parchment which is very incomplete).