<p>Wake Forest is not the first top 30 University to lower entrance standards by dropping test score requirements, it is the only University in the top “100”. The Universities whose shoes they wish to follow are “all in the bottom 100.” And following in the footsteps of a few liberal and fine arts colleges (when they are a University) is like comparing apples to oranges. Their arguement for status change is that they want more diversity and freedom of expression on campus. If you look at the top 25 Universities in America, their minority student body in many cases is “well” above 20%. These high ranking Universities, have the talent and savy to understand that grades alone can be way more misleading than SAT scores. Grades can be very subjective, and the SAT was ment to make academic achievement standards more fair! The truth is, GPA scoring and SAT/ACT scoring should be considered together when determining a students academic accomplishments, and potential. It is a wonderful check and balance tool. A students acceptance to any high ranking University should be made on an individual basis based not only on GPA scores and SAT scores, but on mitigating that may have adversely affected these scores, such as race, language, school district, etc. Outside intersts and activities should be considered in the “whole package” as well. Clearly all the other Universities ranking in the top 20 have the talanted staff to do this. That is why they are more diverse! Maybe Wake Forest should have incressed or hired more talented enrollment staff such as all the other prestigious top 30 Universities have. Instead, it seems they choose to throw the baby out with the bath water.</p>
<p>Prior graduates from Wake Forest will always have to explain that they did not go to Wake Forest, because; they had low test scores, which will always be the assumption.</p>
<p>One would naturally assume that those applying to Wake in the future probably did so, because; they did poorly on the SAT/ACT. Why would anyone with an outstanding GPA and good SAT scores apply there otherwise? What a waste for all their hard work.</p>
<p>History has shown, as does common sense, that students who have worked hard and made sacrafices to earn good GPS’s and good SAT scores naturally want to gain entrance into the higest ranking Universities they can. That’s the whole point and the payoff for all their hard work.</p>
<p>Thank Goodness the South still has Emory, Duke, Vanderbilt, and Davidson.</p>
<p>Wake Forest will surely slide down in ranking status!</p>
<p>To the guy who wrote in from Duke. Easy for you to say, since no one who knows you went to Duke University will ever wonder if you attended a University with no SATor ACT requirements, because, you test poorly. Maybe Duke, should follow suit with Wake. Maybe we should eliminate GPA scoring too GPAs can be an inaccurate testomony to ones academic preformance. I got 4.0’s in classes where I skipped the book and read the Cliff notes. I got extra credit in classes, because; I brought food to class for a food drive. I gained grading favor with teachers who liked me, because I went of campus to pick up their lunch. In the end, my SAT scores showed my GPA to be somewhat inflated. And it was. Had it not been for the SAT requirements I would have gained entrance Wake Forest or maybe even Duke.</p>
<p>AA … tell us yours is a tongueincheek post, please. Aren’t you overstating your opinion a tad? </p>
<p>In the future, prior grads aka alumni, won’t give a rat’s patooty and won’t have any 'splainin to do about why they had to “settle” for poor little Wake. Aside from how Wake whooped up on Duke, Vandy, and Davidson … and didn’t even bother with Emory, that Atlanta extension campus of NYU. </p>
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huh?? What history… and more so, common sense … is that? Me thinks you’ve bought into the US News mythological rankings a wee bit too heavily …</p>
<p>We’ll not know if your doomngloom scenario holds water for some time, but perhaps you’ve placed way too much confidence in the crystal balling potential of a verbal SAT score as a measure of intellect and wisdom. This strategy is simply about cutting out the unnecessary middle men who have worked so hard for only a half century or so to preserve the myth that you’ve taken hook, line, sinker. It just isn’t that important to anyone … either higher or lower scoring candidates. And certainly not to Wake Forest alumni who I’m confident aren’t coming to their reunions, ax ready to be sharpened on the grinding wheel of “what! no more SATs! well, then no more annual fund support! hrumph!”</p>
<p>Thank goodness for someone who tells it like it is. Infortunatelu, so many kids are now stuck at a school wher others will assume they went, because of low test scores</p>
<p>Thank goodness for someone who tells it like it is. Infortunatelu, so many kids are now stuck at a school wher others will assume they went, because of low test scores</p>
<p>might I refer you to the Parents forum on this same topic – they are currentlydiscussing more than 1,000 studies on the predictive value of the SAT… :)</p>
<p>Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory, Davidson, Harvard, Yale, Princeton not likely to do the same. The reason why, I had a 4.0. I got A’s from teachers who liked me better than they taught me. I read the Cliff notes not the book. I got extra credit for bringing can goods in for the food drive. I even had a teacher who gave me an A one sysmester, because; I went out twice a week to pick up her lunch. The SAT ferreted me out and proved that my grades were inflated…</p>
<p>Trust me, this will not move them up in the rankings. I know people with kids who have good GPA scores and good SAT scores. They do not want their kids to apply to Wake Forest, because; they do not want people to think their kids had low test scores. How embarrassing.</p>
<p>Hogwash, high ranking Universities like Duke, Harvard, Emory, Stanford, would never rely on GPA scores alone. They are way to subjective. I got an A in my language course just for fetching my teacher lunch. The SAT subject test ferreted me out… It is a good check and balance tool for High ranking Universities who want to see the whole picture in order to make fair evaluations. Unfortunately, Wake Forest was not willing to hire the talent or take the time to look at applicants on an individual basis (including mitigating circumstances which could adversely affect ones score such as race, school district and so on) in order to better balance their student body much the same way the more prestigious Universities have. If the top 100 Universities no longer required test scores, than High School Teachers and students would be even more mootivated to inflate grades. </p>
<p>With your way of thinking, maybe we should eliminate standardized testing for Medical school as well. After all, some hard working students in the bottom 100 Universities (all of which have no SAT requirements for enrollment) may not test well, because; of their background and the low preformance standards of their school. And the students at selective colleges who buy other students home work in order to achieve higher grades would no longer have to worry about being ferreted out by medical School admittance exams</p>
<p>No you are wrong. Decades of reasearch do support the SAT. Decades of High Ranking Universities (non of which have dropped Sat requirements) prove that it is a great toll to ferret out inflated GPA scores. These Universities also have the savy to keep high standards and still have diversity!!!</p>
<p>AA, how, may I ask, are you familiar with the “talent level” of the admissions committee at Wake? I think a lot of people would disagree with your statement that “mitigating circumstances” are not factored into the general equation of admission. </p>
<p>Again, the change does NOT include a complete dismissal of the standardized test program. You’re absolutely right- for the most part (and for most of the applicant pool), the SAT/ACT is one of the best indicators of a student’s success in college. But let’s face it, the SAT isn’t the only important part of an application, and there really isn’t a lot of leeway between most applicants to begin with. For the most part, applicants to Wake have between a 1280-1360 SAT, some higher, some lower. Minute differences in those scores amount to just a few questions on a test- perhaps decided by time limitations, etc. Are those differences REALLY that definitive in terms of accepting/denying/waitlisting two applicants? Probably not. More than likely, it comes down to essays, service, EC’s, etc, and the general holistic nature of the application. The SAT/ACT will still be important in admissions, and applicants with typical Wake scores will continue, I imagine, to send their scores. </p>
<p>Oh, and by the way, information on school curricula can be found in a book that supposedly is used by admisssion committees across the country (not sure about Wake, though).</p>
<p>One should assume that Wake Forest’s philosophy would also apply across the board. So why haven’t they dropped standardized testing requirements for their Medical School. Could anyone at Wake explain this.?</p>
<p>So why get rid of the requirement? Why not do what Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory and Davidson do and take everything into account? Let’s assume, I had 4.0 or higher with a lot of AP classes. I obtained this GPA by cheating on homework , cheating on tests, mastering the game, and because of ( performance pressure put on my teachers at my private school, or public school) to get students into high ranking colleges (assuming dozens of Universities in the top 100 decided to drop proficiency test score requirements ) What measure would there be to prove my real level af academic achievement?</p>
<p>When it comes to the academic achievement side of the evualation process, Proficiency test scores should not be the measuring stick alone, but neither should GPA scores. It is a good check and balance, and all high ranking Universities know that. Wake Forest threw the baby out with the bath water. Hatch should be fired!</p>
<p>I AGREE. I wager the same. Wake Forest will certainly drop out of not only the top 30 but they will most certainly drop below the top 50 over the next 5 years.</p>
What history… and more so, common sense … is that? Me thinks you’ve bought into the US News mythological rankings a wee bit too heavily …</p>