@politeperson said what I was going to suggest. Go through the process and see what is available to you in the fall, but be especially mindful that you might need some safeties who are willing to wait for you to see how Princeton plays out. In October, you will have a better feel for what you will be giving up if you apply to Princeton than you do now. In the meantime, no need for you to shut doors.
Confirming what others have said in this thread about soft support: I know of multiple student athletes who were offered soft support at Harvard, so it is definitely a thing there. I don’t know of any student athletes who were offered soft support at any of the other Ivy League schools. I also know of one Ivy League coach who said they felt that writing a letter to try to get soft support for a recruit would be counter-productive.
Very interesting - and guessing it depends on the sport. My recent grad was an Ivy crew rower and the majority of coxswains came in through soft support not only at her school, but many of the other Ivys and +. Crew is a small community and we know several coxs that were admitted this way to Stanford, Princeton, Harvard, Yale, Penn, Columbia/Barnard and Cornell. Her former team is bringing in 2 coxs with full support/letter for 25-26 and that was big news - coach admitted he needed them to balance out a few international rowers and have to give up 2 rower spots for these athletes.
There was a poster here last year that was trying to get soft support as a cox (Princeton and Columbia) and it didn’t work out - so never a guarantee.
I am under the impression that the coach I mentioned learned his lesson the hard way. I think soft support a lot of is just hopeful thinking (and trying to keep the athlete invested in the school) in the coaches part, not a concrete thing. I also think as scrutiny increases on “privileged admissions” and schools missions shift, things are changing. Quite fast.
There is some mention of soft support at Princeton in this thread, but I’m noting that’s not what you say in your initial post. You said “Princeton.. tells me that if I get in academically, I am strong enough to be on their team.” That’s not the coach offering soft support - in fact, it’s sort of the opposite - it’s the coach telling you that they aren’t going to add support to your application. This means that you’re in the bucket of other average excellent applicants with legacy hooks. That’s likely above the 5% for everyone, but none of us really know if that’s 10% or 20%. It’s not going to be more than that. I agree with others that commitment to a single sport and activities around it are perfectly acceptable EC’s - that’s not an issue - but right now Princeton is not offering you any sort of athletic advantage.
I think you’re a reclassed junior entering your senior year (5th year in HS), given your previous posts - is that right? Either way, I’m guessing you’re going into your senior year, so you still have a little bit of time to give other schools that will provide athletic support a real look, especially Dartmouth and Brown. These are tremendous schools in their own right, different than Princeton in ways that you might find fit you in ways you didn’t know. I don’t know if you’ve visited, met the teams, etc.
I am curious as to why you’ve only reached out to seven schools? Maybe you have visited these places and many more and narrowed it down yourself?
It’s perfectly acceptable to reach back out to Penn in a few days. I wouldn’t email them more than twice unless you have newer information to share, but individual messages can be missed.
For me - and I’m not you - I get the family connection to Princeton, but this is your individual future you’re talking about. I couldn’t imagine giving up an essentially 100% opportunity to a place like Brown or Dartmouth (unless you visit and hate them!) for a ~10% shot at Princeton. And I would be reaching out to more schools where your scores make you recruitable to widen your net.
I’d continue the process and see what happens. If another top flight school - like Brown or Dartmouth - offers you a fully supported spot, I think it would be tough to pass up for a “chance” at Princeton (albeit a better chance than most). If no other Ivy type schools offer you a supported spot, I think you should REA to Princeton and see about ED2 at Chicago (if you are interested in them). Of course, if your parents are major donors (not just donors) and Princeton is your favorite, I’d just REA there as you are likely to get it.
OP: Your current time in the one mile is not fast enough for Harvard or Princeton. You should be a walk-on candidate for Brown, Dartmouth, Columbia, & Cornell. Also, possible as a walk-on at U Penn & Yale.
But, your current mile time is a bit slow at all all Ivy League schools according to their published recruiting standards & slow for NESCAC published recruiting standards for walk-on/tryout status. In short, track is unlikely to be much of an advantage for college admissions based on your current mile time.
P.S. Might help readers/posters if you specify that you are a “rising senior” rather than a “junior” in high school.
I don’t believe that any school is objectively stronger than UChicago academically, unless you are going to pursue Engineering or Comp Sci – rumors abound that they are working hard, like Yale, to beef up those areas, and I’m sure what they do offer is excellent… but they are not yet known as a powerhouse in either area.
But if you’re looking to study pretty much anything in the liberal arts, I don’t believe you can improve on UChicago.
That being said, you have to be okay with the academic curriculum (core component) and vibe (life of the mind) there.
If you are, and you vibe with the area/campus at least decently… boy, what an ace in the hole to have.
But if you have doubts about UChicago’s quality or reputation, you can dismiss those now – it is top-tier.
I think I disagree a bit with this assessment (except the conclusion re: Princeton and Harvard).
5/10:40 mile/3200 is around the threshold where Ivy coaches will start paying attention. I think OP is close enough that it’s possible she’d end up with coach support (at non-HP). They have XC teams to think about. Not a slam dunk by any means but possible.
I suspect those times would get a lot of NESCAC interest.
But of course only the coaches will know.
OP: I’d strongly suggest contacting all the rest of Ivies if you have any interest. And expand the list of D3s so you’re contacting at least a dozen (if not more) coaches. Then think about other schools where your times would be a good fit.
If you get offers for OVs and/or coach support you can decide after going through the process. Who knows, maybe you get a visit to Yale and really like it. You can chat again with the Princeton coach before deciding. My bet is that if you get an offer for coach support at another Ivy he’d tell you to take it.
Not so far off. Her mile converts to a 4:38 1500 which would be 11th on the team and would have made finals at Heps (who knows what the conditions were there).
Problem is there are only three seniors graduating and a lot of stud underclassmen. It also feels like it is a bit late in the recruiting process if you haven’t had much communication with the coaches to have track make a recruitable difference.
Not clear about the timelines, but if you get deferred, you may have time to pop a noteworthy early season time which may help at Princeton. But I agree with many others that it seems a high risk strategy when you are more recruitable elsewhere and can lock in ED.
I know it’s hard to imagine now, but I think of a dear friend’s daughter who was a double legacy at Harvard and was crushed that she didn’t get in. She’s now at Michigan and wouldn’t trade that experience for anything.
The world is full of awesome schools. I’d recommend opening the aperture a bit.
I think OP is extremely unlikely to get an REA rejection given the background, but a deferral is much more likely than an acceptance, even if they plan on accepting her. It’s just how things have shaken out with legacy students in the last couple of years. In other words, they should be prepared to apply to a full list.
Still, a drop in time is unlikely to help unless something unexpected happens to another recruit. We have already established there is no soft support and the number of likely letters is very tightly controlled and almost all LL are offered in REA
It’s difficult to predict admissions decisions especially here because we don’t know the details (and I’m not asking, OP!), but OP is not just a legacy:
I do t disagree. Geography and other factors will play into this as well. I just feel like OP should be ready for a deferral and not necessarily read too much into it, but should be ready for a full stack of college apps with an appropriate amount of likelier, targets and reaches.
Basic legacy: none or nominal donations, limited/sporadic volunteer. The AO will see your legacy status and it may or may not count for much - maybe a “feather” on the balance.
Active legacy: Consistent donor in the thousands of dollars per year. Active volunteer (e.g. alumni group, fund raising, admissions). I was told that in these cases, Development will slip a note/letter in the applicant file at Yale. I would caution here though that I have seen/heard of students where the parents have donated in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, may be even in the low millions who were rejected. I think this category can be a boost for the “average excellent”, but no guarantee.
Development Case: huge boost from Development if parents have or are capable of contributing in the millions.
I have been told that if your contributions have truly been significant…you’d know it before senior year. The development, alumni and admissions folks are keyed in enough not to let this be a “will they or won’t they” situation.
Don’t know if it’s true…or just sour grapes from double legacies who have given over 100k over the years and their kids were rejected. But I’d assume the family would have been invited to a coffee/symposium, a chamber music concert at the president’s house, or one of these other HYP special events by now.
The good news for the OP is knowing that an admission will be on the merits, not the money!!!
AFAIK it’s still the case that Princetown tracks alum giving and engagement. They used to have five tiers that alum could be placed in…tiers of higher giving/engagement have relatively higher acceptance rates for kids. I am not quite sure whether it’s easy for an alum to know what ‘tier’ they are in. Does anyone know if this is still the case at Princeton?
Consistent donor, regardless of amount is very valued at Princeton. It’s not going to boost your stats but the reality is that the majority of students, even at princeton, are average excellent, albeit often from top HSs. So that kid gets the spot over some other kid who’s dad probably went to Harvard or Yale. NBD.
Conversely, I have seen the Princeton legacy baggage work against you. There is no way to prove it but I have seen too many WL at peer schools to believe otherwise. Even HYPSM care about yield and I bet there is plenty of data showing that that student will probably choose Princeton at the end of the day.
This is not to say I disagree with your overall points. I think you are pretty spot on. I also this every underestimate the $ amount that it takes to truly move the needle and make up for some deficiency in the application.
That is interesting. I am not familiar with crew recruiting. It is possible/probable that there is a specific deal worked out with admissions to recruit coxswains with LOR, rather than slots. I would be interested to hear about this, but perhaps on its own discussion thread?