<p>If so, how and when did Stanford become the stellar academic institution that it is today and pass its public rival?</p>
<p>No. 10char.</p>
<p>seeing as Berkeley was around for some 20 odd years before Stanford came around, it was likely significantly better in those first few years. In 1942, according to the wikipedia page, UCB was regarded as the 2nd best institution in the US behind Harvard. The early developments that led to the atomic bomb were mostly carried out at Berkeley. </p>
<p>So I’d say sometime after WWII probably. I’m guessing sometime in the 1960s, when Stanford biology began accepting outside funding, when SLAC was being developed, and when a few of the big-name Silicon Valley companies associated with Stanford grads were getting started.</p>
<p>I’d say Stanford began to catch up around the time of Frederick Terman became Dean of Engineering. He managed to attract large engineering/technology companies into Stanford Research Park and expanded science and engineering departments during his term as Provost to attract grants from DoD.</p>
<p>Berkeley is actually pretty on par with Stanford academically. In terms of Undergrad Education, Stanford has the edge, but if you’re talking about Graduate School and PhDs, Berkeley is up there with Stanford in most categories and surpasses Stanford in certain fields. I would say it is just as good, if not a better, graduate school than Stanford</p>
<p>So I don’t really know if Stanford is academically better than Berkeley. If you’re considering undergraduate education, then Stanford will offer you more prestige and better learning opportunities; Still, it’s all up to you</p>
<p>I think Stanford was considered somewhat inferior to Berkeley academically well into the 1960s at the undergraduate level – much like USC and UCLA in Los Angeles. Maybe even into the 70s. Both had a lot of disruption from student protests in the late 60s and early 70s, but Stanford came out of it better. Berkeley got knocked around a lot by California politics, especially when Reagan was the governor. Also, the city of Berkeley became somewhat unpleasant around the same time, and that made it less attractive – the trends at the time really favored suburban campuses like Stanford or Princeton. Enrollment at Berkeley expanded for financial and political reasons, which made it less attractive and less exclusive. Stanford’s superior ability to admit rich people gave it more social cachet, as well as increased endowment. Some of it may have been pure luck – graduates like David Packard, William Rehnquist, Sandra Day certainly enhanced the prestige of the university.</p>
<p>As Rolandic7 notes, it is far from clear that Stanford is superior to Berkeley at the mainstream arts-and-sciences graduate level. For professional schools – law, business, education, engineering – Stanford is clearly a tick higher, and that happened (a) with Terman in engineering, in the 50s and 60s, (b) in law, with a raid on Columbia in the mid-60s and some great subsequent hiring, (c) in business, sometime in the early 70s.</p>
<p>^Yes, and using faculty quality/hiring as a metric (which I think is as good as any), Stanford is likely to increase its edge as the recession, and California’s state budget problems, grind on, because Stanford is well situated to lure great faculty away from Berkeley. The budget nightmare also makes it harder for undergrads at UC campuses to get classes they need in time to graduate, among other difficulties. Personally, I very much hope funding is restored to the UCs very soon, and to Berkeley in particular. It’s an amazing school but under current circumstances there’s no way I’d have chosen it over Stanford.</p>
<p>Yes: they are arguably neck-in-neck now. Agree that the California fiscal crisis is a real threat to the UC programs, however. Stanford was considered less distinguished, overall, until maybe the 1980’s. Since the “prestige” of undergraduate programs is often (inappropriately) based on a university’s graduate and professional schools, UC Berkeley is a serious rival to Stanford.</p>
<p>I think that would be “neck and neck”, Dad2 (like a pair of horses tied in a race). Neck-in-neck sounds pretty painful. ; )</p>
<p>
I don’t like to think of them as rivals really (at least until it comes to football haha). I wish both are successful. Like a lot of undergrads from one will go to the other for grad school. Both feed into Silicon Valley and the Bay Area. I’m sure there is tons of research being shared by both universities right now. Both represent the pinnacle of California schools in the north. </p>
<p>That’s why I hope Cal can pull through this California budget crisis. Some changes I’d like to see made would be more guaranteed housing for undergrads, cheaper OOS tuition, and more non-impacted classes. But in budget cut years that’s impossible.</p>
<p>UC Berkeley was, is, and always will be better than Stanfurd.</p>
<p>Berkeley should cut down the size of its undergrad. that’s one good way to solve this budget cut crises.</p>
<p>I found many threads here at College Confidential.com claiming that Stanford’s undergraduate program is better than that of Berkeley. However, I believe that Berkeley’s undergraduate program is on the same levels with that of Stanford.</p>
<p>University of California at Berkeley and Stanford University are both very good schools that are in the Top Tier Colleges, which also include Harvard University, Princeton University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, and Yale University. When it comes to a direct comparison between Berkeley and Stanford, there is really not much of a difference between the institutions’ prestige in the US and in the world.</p>
<p>Just a sidetracker –> In my opinion, what makes Stanford and Berkeley so outstanding from other schools, especially the Ivy Leagues, is that both universities are excellent in all academic disciplines: from Arts & Humanities to Engineering. You can hardly find a globally-recognized engineering program at Harvard, Yale, or Princeton; neither can you find a prestigious Arts & Humanities program at MIT. </p>
<p>Coming back to the comparsion between Stanford and Berkeley, I find that students from both universities receive prestigious job offers from well-knowned corporations, banks, and government agencies. The following is where some of the Stanford students went to after graduation (Undergraduate):</p>
<ul>
<li>Hoover Institution</li>
<li>US Senate</li>
<li>Teach for America</li>
<li>Google</li>
<li>Richard Lewis Architect</li>
<li>GAP</li>
<li>Goldman Sachs</li>
<li>Nokia</li>
<li>Exxon Mobil</li>
<li>Boston Consulting Group</li>
<li>Walt Disney</li>
<li>Schusterman Foundation</li>
<li>Pepsi Co</li>
<li>Yahoo</li>
<li>Microsoft</li>
</ul>
<p>(etc…)</p>
<p>Here are some of the job positions that Berkeley Senior students got after graduation:</p>
<ul>
<li>Accenture</li>
<li>Bain and Company</li>
<li>Bank of America</li>
<li>Blackstone Group</li>
<li>Citibank</li>
<li>Credit Suisse</li>
<li>Facebook</li>
<li>Google</li>
<li>JP Morgan Chase</li>
<li>McKinsey Company</li>
<li>Procter & Gamble</li>
<li>VISA Inc</li>
<li>Prudential Inc</li>
<li>IBM Corporation</li>
<li>US Department of Defense</li>
</ul>
<p>(* Got this information from Career Centers at UC Berkeley and at Stanford University)</p>
<p>As you can see, both Stanford and Berkeley grads get extremeley good job offers from the world’s most well renowned companies in the world. Hence, I really think that there is almost no difference when it comes to the comparison between these two excellent institutions.</p>
<p>However, there is one thing that future college applicants should be aware of. Berkeley’s academics are extremeley tough and as Sakky mentioned, they may teach you topics that can be highly sophisticated. Nevertheless, Berkeley’s academics do have a reputation and you may be able to better prepare for life. Afterall, what is college for?</p>
<p>
Um from the context of this statement it seems as though “life” is highly linked with career. I disagree with that view, and I’m sure many others do as well. What I’m getting at is there are things besides getting a good job. Like rounding out one’s intellect, or meeting friends and becoming more socially fluent, or enjoying the football game, or whatever. </p>
<p>Many people will criticize Berkeley’s undergrad because they believe it sacrifices the “other” pursuits of life (whether this is true or not, I do not know and will not guess). Although these other pursuits are near-irrelevant when searching for a job, they are very relevant to one’s search for purpose and fulfillment in life.</p>
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<p>Yet regarding Berkeley (but notably not regarding Stanford), what does it matter if your school is academically excellent in a wide range of disciplines if you’re not allowed to partake? For example, as a Berkeley student, if you come in as a liberal arts student but then find out about the excellence of the EECS program, you can’t just simply decide to switch to that major. You needed to have been admitted to the major from the very beginning. Barring that, you can try to switch into the major as an internal candidate, but only by demonstrating your worthiness by taking the EECS prereqs with no guarantee of a place in the major. {Let’s face it: if you earn a 2.5 in those EECS prereqs, you’re not getting into the major.} </p>
<p>In contrast, if you come into Stanford as an English student and later decide that you’d rather major in engineering, you are free to do so. Nobody is going to stop you. But they can stop you at Berkeley. I can think of quite a few former Berkeley students who wanted to switch to engineering but were denied and were therefore forced to declare majors they didn’t really want; Berkeley’s high engineering rankings therefore don’t exactly do much for them. If they had gone to Stanford, they would have been able to switch. </p>
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<p>Yet regarding Harvard and MIT, the ample cross-registration policies between the two schools means that this issue is far less salient than it was in the past. Harvard and MIT students are free to take practically any undergraduate course at either of the two schools. The educational resources available to Harvard engineering students, after adding in the complete portfolio of courses available at MIT through cross-reg, rivals that of any school.</p>
<p>Honestly, I do not think the quality of Berkeley students is as good as that of Stanford.</p>
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</p>
<p>You provide no good evidence for your belief.</p>
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</p>
<p>It’s disingenuous to imply that, on the undergraduate level, UC Berkeley is as prestigious and selective as Stanford, HYP & MIT.</p>
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</p>
<p>While you’ve shown that "well-knowned [sic] corporations, banks, and government agencies do hire Berkeley grads (and why wouldn’t they?), your list does not actually show that Berkeley grads receive only “prestigious job offers” from these firms. In fact, your list doesn’t show in which capacities the Berkeley grads were hired. Nor do they show what percentage of Berkeley grads received offers out of those who applied. In other words, your list is relatively meaningless and not worthy of analysis.</p>
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<p>Your conclusion is unwarranted. Not to mention, your premise (re: Berkeley grads only getting prestigious job offers) has not been established.</p>
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<p>One out of three ain’t bad.</p>
<p>Anyone who thinks Stanford is academically superior to Berkeley is delusional.</p>
<p>[This</a> article](<a href=“http://sanfrancisco.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2010/09/27/daily24.html]This”>http://sanfrancisco.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/stories/2010/09/27/daily24.html) is from Sept 28, 2010:</p>
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</p>
<p>Also, the ARWU is probably one of the most well-respected worldwide University rankings. It was created by the Chinese, to gauge their international competition with regards to higher education.</p>
<p>Here are their 2010 rankings:
- Harvard
- UC Berkeley
- Stanford</p>
<p>Asia is quickly becoming a major world power. Their opinion matters, too. (And they seem to agree with US rankings)</p>
<p>The NRC and ARWU rankings are graduate (NOT undergraduate) rankings. I thought that this is COLLEGE Confidential instead of GRAD SCHOOL Confidential. Here are some relevant undergraduate rankings:</p>
<p>Revealed Preference
Stanford #3; Berkeley #23</p>
<p>WSJ Feeder Schools
Stanford #4; Berkeley #41</p>
<p>USNWR
Stanford #5; Berkeley #22</p>
<p>Forbes
Stanford #6; Berkeley #65</p>
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</p>
<p>What about the opinion of Europeans?</p>
<p>Times Higher Education
Stanford #4; Berkeley #8</p>
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<p>I guess I am “delusional.”</p>