<p>According to the link, these interrogations did NOT involve torture. So how does this relate to the current discussion? And it doesn’t give any specifics of what the methods are, so how does this prove that Democrats would not have disrupted these plots? Are you assuming that the report is a lie, and that this DID involve torture?? I’m just not sure I get your point here…</p>
<p>CGM, please read my posts before you put words in my mouth.</p>
<p>Susan, the point is that the interrogation went beyond the “name/rank/serial number” implied by the Geneva Convention. Hence, if we had people who insisted upon giving Geneva Convention rights to terrorists then these plots would not have been disrupted. The definition of torture has been “tortuously” convoluted by the left with some people claiming (including an illustrious senator from Massachusetts) that the unsanctioned activities of Abu Graib were “torture”.</p>
<p>I know this is from the “rag” Rolling Stone, but I can’t believe that anyone can condone this treatment of another human being…especially people who value the sanctity of human life, or so they say.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11128331/follow_omar_khadr_from_an_al_qaeda_childhood_to_a_gitmo_cell/2[/url]”>http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11128331/follow_omar_khadr_from_an_al_qaeda_childhood_to_a_gitmo_cell/2</a></p>
<p>A very sad fantasy, AM. Thank you for sharing. My son is reading 1984. It’s horrible, too.</p>
<p>Why a fantasy, Driver? You don’t want to believe teenagers, the age of your own children, are treated this way?</p>
<p>what did they do to him that was “torture”, AM?</p>
<p>The problem with alot of people that are against torture techniques do not understand the fight we are in. They do not understand the nature of our enemy. They do not understand that a person who is willing to strap a suicide belt around his waist packed with ballbearings and nails coated in rat poison and then blow himself up in a crowded coffee shop or someone who would be willing to fly a plane into a building killing 3000 peopledoes not deserve to be spared from torture. They do not understand that these terrorists want them dead. They want me dead. They want driver dead. They want citygirlsmom dead. If it means that an interrogator has to kick someone, or put a disgusting bag on their hands then so be it as long as it saves MY life. Forget about the lives of any when else but for the sake of my life I want that man to be tortured. You can even establish fair parameters for torture such as not allowing confessions under torture to be used to incrimnate the terrorists, but to use the confessions for only one reason-saving lives. Why is it so disgusting to some of you people to put a smelly sack on someone and shake him violently till he confesses or maybe do things even worse than that?</p>
<p>golani, and if the person is innocent? Or is that just a chance you’re willing to take - on his behalf ? Because no one would ever, ever confess to anything they’re innocent of, when they’re being tortured, right?</p>
<p>You do understand that when someone is caught who is believed to know details on terror activities their usually is alot of proof of that. The fact that he is arrested in the first place is essentially because he has some connection. The American government does not randomly pick people up and accuse them of knowing about an imminent plot for many reasons but mainly because theyre not gonna waste their time while risking the lives of a few thousand people.</p>
<p>hayden, that is indeed one of the biggest problems I see with torture. (not the only problem, but one of them) Those who are for it keep saying how terrorists don’t deserve any better, etc., and yet how can we insure that ONLY actual terrorists are arrested and interrogated in this way? It is, of course, impossible. There will always be innocent people rounded up in terrorist searches at various times. So is it right that these people suffer torture for the “crime” of being in the wrong place at the wrong time?</p>
<p>Omar Khadr and his Canadian family were important allies of Bin Laden. His father was believed to be Bin Laden’s financier and he and his brothers were martyrs/jihadis. They have admitted they are an al Qaeda family (<a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4456924/[/url]”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4456924/</a>). The US is prosecuting Omar for killing an American serviceman, Christopher Speer, in Afghanistan:</p>
<p>
</a></p>
<p>Its almost impossible for the wrong person to be captured and tortured to get information about a specific crime that only a few people would no about. When someone is arrested in the first place there is loads of evidence to prove his terror ties even though most of it will not be admissible in a civillian court. We are fighting a war rite now and our enemies are illegal combatants. Also the reason you torture is not because terrorists deserve it, but because I dont want to die in some attack that they knew of.</p>
<p>for those that care</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.newyorker.com/printables/fact/050214fa_fact6[/url]”>http://www.newyorker.com/printables/fact/050214fa_fact6</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2006_spr/rendition.htm[/url]”>http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2006_spr/rendition.htm</a></p>
<p><a href=“Resources – Center for Security Studies | ETH Zurich”>Resources – Center for Security Studies | ETH Zurich;
<p><a href=“http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/04/60minutes/main678155.shtml[/url]”>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/04/60minutes/main678155.shtml</a></p>
<p>but golan toture is against American Values, so you are not in agreement with Bush on this?</p>
<p>And you believe all you read about information got from interrogations.?..people lie while being torutred to stop the pain</p>
<p>and people lie to justify it…</p>
<p>guess you and the death squads in central america have a lot in common and Syria</p>
<p>But forcing terrorists to undergo Navy SEAL training isn’t against American values.</p>
<p>Guess the pentagon disagrees with you all…you all know better than they do…</p>
<p>I do disagree with Bush, Torture is not against American values. Everyone loves to claim that people lie under torture however that si not always true. In fact in many cases tjhey tell the truth and that simply saves lives just like the Fillipinos who tortured and got information of hostages or the many cases that Bush described. CGM i dont care about ur life, but i do care about my own and i value my life and if the price of me living is some sleep deprevation or waterboarding or truth serum or even some violent shaking for a terrorist than i dont care. What disturbs me the most about you is that you are trying to spare a single terrorist the same pain and suffering that will be inflicted on a hundred others. Yet you dont want to spare that suffering for Americans. I just don;t understand why u hate this country so much.</p>
<p>CGM, here’s the link to the AL Qaeda training manual. It’s not the entire text, it’s just the part the Justice Dept. released. Read this, then come back here and post and tell us if you still think we should treat terrorist suspects like royalty. Oh - and this was recovered in NYC, too. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/manualpart1.html[/url]”>http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/manualpart1.html</a></p>
<p>I dont think it matters what kind of scum the terrorists are. Thats not the reason we torture. The reason we do it is to save life. Remember the images of Nick Berg screaming in horror as Zarqawi cut his head off with a rusty knife. No matter what you say CGM will always draw an equivalence between America, a country that has liberated and saved millions of people, to terrorists. She hates America. She hates that America leads the world and that no matter what foreign sentiment is people come to America to live a good life and this government will do everything it can to protect these people. If it means that we will not spare a murderer the pain and suffering he plans to inflict on a hundred people then fine. At least CGM will still be alive to spout her BS. People like her will never like this country and will always criticize it. No doubt her life has been great. She lives in a good home, has a steady job , is seeing gas prices steadily falling as the American military and Iraqi government are increasing oil output bc of increasing stability, she wiil recieve the finest healthcare in the world even if she refuses to show insurance information, just like millions of others who recieve free care subsidized by the gov’t. CGM is safer, despite what she says. Since 9/11 there has not been a terrorist attack on American soil despite the fact that “Bush is making this country more dangerous”. Programs like wire-tapping and stoping terrorists financial assets were succesful until the nYT revealed them to the terrorists. Things look great in this country. And ofcourse one of the reasons I or her have not been decapitated yet, is because of torture. It hurts me to think of what the terrorists would do to me or her if they are able to succeed.</p>
<p>nothing to do with royaty treatment, where did that come from</p>
<p>so i guess if we are torturers, when our soldiers get captured, our civilians, its all fair game…so is that why you two aren’t enlisted yet to fight this mighty battle></p>