Wash U Is Distasteful!

Colleges & Universities Washington University in St. Louis
41

<p>I think that a hardy dose of realism has now been administered to parents. I too have been extremely conscious (and proud) of how my S measured up at his prep school. </p>

<p>It has taken me these last several weeks to come to grip with the fact that using PSAT/SAT/ACT scores and GPA’s, state level math awards etc. to measure my S has masked one “truth.” With 1.7 million US HS seniors, the “top” 1% using these measures (PSAT/SAT) still is approximately 17,000 students. Then factor in the international students.</p>

<p>It seems that the competition for the few slots at “elite” schools and “near-elite” schools with generous merit $$ draws LOTS of those 17,000 highly qualified students.</p>

<p>The sons (including mine) and daughters who did not get “the prize” weren’t ignored, slighted or cheated. Someone (or group of people) had to make hard decisions on very fine differences in profiles of tens of thousands (in admissions) and at least thousands (in merit appls) of essentially equally gifted young people.</p>

<p>FOLKS, we parents need TO GET OVER IT!</p>

42

<p>No hard feelings ever for the rejection, just for the card. This will be my last post on this issue.</p>

43

<p>Schoolfinder and other parents, I think you need to check with your kids before posting their stats. They may be your children, but you still need to respect their wishes.</p>

44

<p>You’re right, sahweet. (Although maybe they did!)</p>

45

<p>I must say that my post in this column was to express a sincere apology and regret for what I believed to be a wrong and negligent mailing. I find it hard to see how the restatement of tatistical information has anything to do with what is being discussed other than the “entitlement beliefs” that 07Dad poignantly discussed in the previous post. Schoolfinder, I did not mean to say that your D was unqualified to attend WashU and apologize If I came across in that fashion. </p>

<p>It is , however, a bit discouraging that people continue to assume that accomplishments equate to the value that individuals will bring/ get out of an academic experience. Any college that will accept someone purely on those statistical accomplishments fails to acknowledge the many factors that go into making an admissions decision. Thus, as 07Dad proved in his aforementioned post, people should understand that even with the impressively flawless accomplishments of schoolfinder’s D, nothing is guaranteed. As a student, I might have thought that I was working hard in high school to “win” a spot at a prestigious university but now that I am at the university its clear that the process isn’t a zero sum, win-lose, “I worked so hard to earn a spot and money” type thing. </p>

<p>Schoolfinder, I hope that your D enjoys the true value that any “prestigious” university will bring her as a an undergrad student that lies in the experiences and growth that she will undoubtedly experience. As a former participant and an active observer of those going through this process of applying to “prestigious” schools, it seems that this fact is one that is often ignored and forgotten by both students and parents.</p>

46

<p>Let me take a stab at this. I am sure this may not satify everyone. About 14500 students apply for the school of Arts and Sciences (maybe more this year). In rough terms if you believe CB and Princeton review about 2800 or so would be accepted. As far as stats go this is a pretty impressive bunch and a fair number have applied to many of the HYPS group. There are about 12 full scholarship for A&S so in rough (very rough terms) that is less than 1% of the accepted student pool. Remember now this sub group is going to have really pretty impressive stats and resumes. In fact there will be a fair number of 2400 SAT superscore candidates and other impressive numbers. So they will look at essays and recommends and activities and try to see if they can sort on that basis. This is now art more than science also they will look for particular things that distinguish certain students from the others. Nobody is a bad candidiate but choices must be made by the committee. But the odds are quite low that any particular admitted candidate will get chosen. A lot has been made of the fact that Stanford has sent out 120 or so notices to RD candidates. If you look at the regular decision admitted pool size for that school that number I think would be a higher percentage than the Wash U scholarship finalist pool. The odds are low and it is a judgement call I am sure and I bet there are a lot of close calls on who makes finalist for scholarships. Again remember since there is a whole second application there is much more scrutiny for each candidate.</p>

<p>As far as the card goes…they have said the obvious, it was a mistake. If that is the biggest error thay make trying to deal with 22000 applicants I am impressed</p>

47

<p>I think in this case, schoolfinder is probably well aware of the difficulty of getting a scholarship from Washington University, even for a very accomplished, top student like his daughter. After all, he has been through this before in that his son WAS named a finalist for a scholarship at Washington University two years ago. From his posting, I get the impression that he believes his daughter was an even better candidate for a scholarship than his son and he would probably be the one who had the best feel for a side by side comparison of these two people. </p>

<p>Even though his son turned down Washington University’s offer, the family was still interested in the school. While it probably stings that his daughter did not receive an invite to continue in the scholarship competition, the real problem is the inclusion of the Congratulations card is like rubbing salt into the wound. It would certainly be easy for me to believe as a parent in a case like this that Washington University had little respect for the students they rejected given the different treatment by admissions of the son and daughter. </p>

<p>Where the problem lies in this situation for Washington University is that this family has obviously supported and recommended Washington University to other students in their area. Top, highly qualified students who may be good matches for Washington University. I have not heard of any Washington University Administrators apologizing for this callous error, only students. By now they are aware of this yet no one in authority at this school has emailed an apology, called, etc. I realize right now all their energy is going toward getting admissions completed and wooing their chosen candidates but they made the error. While an accident, an error like this is a cruel trick to play on vulnerable 18 year olds. </p>

<p>Washington University may be warm and caring once you are admitted or before they get your application fee but the handling of this situation seems to indicate that students who can’t contribute to their rankings or bottom line are simply not worth them wasting their time on. For a University who built its rankings by astute marketing, this kind of attitude could bite them in the rear for future classes.</p>

<p>schoolfinder, may your daughter find a place where she is happy and valued and where she can grow and thrive.</p>

48

<p>oldolddad - I absolutely agree with most of your post. The merit scholarship candidates are truly an impressive group. They usually constitute the top 10% or so of the admitted students. Almost everyone has stats that are more than impressive. When choosing finalists the committee looks for that little bit of a difference. Not an easy job, but one that they seem to do quite well.</p>

<p>The only part of your post that I disagree with is the number of scholarships. What you have not factored in is the Danforth, Ervin & Rodriguez Scholars. That probably equals almost another 80-100 scholarships. Granted all are not 100% tuition, but a good percentage are. WashU actually awards a very large number of merit awards.
.</p>

49

<p>Heh–robertgregorydt, help us out here.</p>

<p>Not everyone that gets a merit scholarship at WASH U is the very, very top of the stats, right?</p>

<p>From what I’ve gathered, “merit” is still an “all the facts and circumstances” call by the school.</p>

<p>What’s your take?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

50

<p>ST2: yes, I agree but I do not know if the perosn was applying for Danforth and I wanted to use rough numbers to demonstate just how tough it is.</p>

<p>keepmesane: Trick? C’mon. First we do not know how many that happened to and second we do not know that the school would know until someone called. Do you think that they would not apologize if it was brought to their attention by the person that got the card? What do you want them to do have press conference on CNN? Perhaps send a letter out out all rejected candidates. Maybe they will if they find out it is a big problem. </p>

<p>Comparing student qualifications is tough enough in the same year, but year to year and department to department is dangerous. Assuming because one gets something in a competitive situation like this that another should is a bit niave. We do not know what was in the essays etc nor the competition. Instead of being mad at WashU why not be mad at all those other schools who do not even give merit money but criticize Washu for doing so.</p>

51

<p>I agree with olddad. Although, this card is a mistake, comparatively it could be much, much worse. This year, UNC Chapel Hill sent out emails granting admission to nearly all its applicants in a letter that was supposed to simply confirm that they received application materials. This is a mistake worth criticizing about…</p>

52

<p>Especially cuz UNC never sent me that mistake acceptance letter…I felt so left out lol!!!</p>

53

<p>When Wash U came to our city this year, there was a huge turnout of high school seniors and parents. The numbers spoke volumes, if any of us were listening. </p>

<p>In the months that followed, we continued to receive more and more mailings from WUSTL, including some that spoke of the ultimate come-hither, the merit-based scholarships. </p>

<p>All those brochures and books, all those pretty color photographs . . . and most of us ended up last week getting a thin envelope with a terse “No scholarships for you!!” letter from the dean of admissions. Some, it seems, also got the unfortunate bonus congratulations card, which is an unspeakable mistake.</p>

<p>If you browse the posts in CC’s Wash U forum, you’ll detect an annual spate of venom directed the school’s way. I never understood that. During our visits to Wash U, we were thoroughly charmed. We all heard about the games that the school plays with its yield statistics. Our HS counselors warned us about them. But that would never happen to us, we concluded, because we were going to go to Wash U on one of those much-advertised scholarships.</p>

<p>I feel like Hans Solo, wanting to say, “Don’t tell me the odds.” The “odds” explanation is compromised by the prevailing unfairness of the modern financial aid system. To the average middle-class family, a merit-based scholarship is the only hope to attend to a pricey school such as WUSTL. </p>

<p>keepmesane, your post was eloquent. </p>

<p>oldolddad, yes, if the school took the time to send the unfortunate “congratulations” cards, it should take the time to apologize for its mistake. It’s called goodwill. Or good business, in Wash U’s marketing-conscious case. </p>

<p>I am left wondering, though, why Wash U even bothers to send out the “no scholarship” letters. All they really have to do is announce a date and say that finalists will be notified by that date. To the rest of you, thanks for playing. </p>

<p>I suspect that parents and future prospective students will get the message. Somebody will tell them “the odds.” Maybe they will also hear the stories about the thousands of terrific students who made it into other great colleges, but were put on the WUSTL waiting list.
I’m going to venture a guess and say that that big crowded room that we all sat in last fall, our “come to Wash U” brochures in hand, will thin out in the autumns to come. </p>

<p>I won’t be crass enough to tell any of you to “Get over it.” On the contrary, parents, I share your pain. We are the ones, after all, who have to tell our sons and daughters that no, we can’t afford to spend $43K a year to send them to Wash U. And that hurts.</p>

54

<p>I would just like to point out that at this stage of the game, you’re /not/ talking about having no scholarships/financial aid. Sure, you got the letter (and the offensive postcard…ouch…I do agree about that being not the best). But the financial aid packages haven’t come out yet. So don’t completely write off the school. The story isn’t finished yet. Just because you didn’t win the jackpot scholarships doesn’t mean that you’re not going to get anything at all.</p>

55

<p>As indicated a while back, my son also got the rejection/congratulations mailing. We called admissions and they did not say it was a mistake. They said that he received the congratulations because he was an alternate for the summer scholars program - if he was admitted to the college. They specifically said that this method of notification was something new they were trying this year. They stressed more than once that he was an alternate IF he would get admittance. He had applied to several scholarships and was rejected for all of the rest, which I was supposed to have understood somehow. I am willing to forgive mistakes, but as I said, this was not a mistake according to the head of the admissions department.</p>

56

<p>eleph–and others–a quick reminder that for many applicants, there are no scholarships and grants other than merit-based, because their families do not qualify for need-based financial aid. So, contrary to your post #54, the “story is finished”.</p>

<p>For those families who were disappointed by the “sorry Charlie” letters, keep your fingers crossed. My son applied to several schools that offer a few merit-based scholarships. 24 hours after the Big No from WUSTL, he was offered a full tuition/fees (4 years) merit scholarship from a very comparable university. (And there was no separate app, and no interview is required.) I hope the rest of you and your talented students are so fortunate. Don’t give up hope yet.</p>

57

<p>Hopefully, peolpe applied to WashU because they thought it was a good college. Although the number of scholarships offered is greater than at some universities,(Rice about 10%, CalTech 10%) the brochures all state that the competition is fierce. The applicant pool is large. (This is no different than Emory, Morhead etc) Those numbers are out there. If a person is only applying because of the scholarship then that person should be applying to several other schools to increase the overall chances. I continue to see posts like “my kid is not wanted by WashU but got a scholarship to somewhere just as good” . Well how many places can you go to? Count your blessings that he/she got one. If it is about having to money, fantastic. If you are going to talk about how you can’t afford to pay but the colleges won’t give you any money then you better do some soul searching and perhaps then ask yourself “Why would I apply to HYPS, if I say I need merit money”. Just to say you got in and then complain that you can’t afford it?
I know from several students I have had, that if you are anywhere boarderline WashU will work with you on financial aid. As a private school they have some leeway regarding the grant/scholarhsip part of the package. If you do not have special circumstances or if you are not close then you are making your own call about “affordability” which may be based more on what you want to pay rather than on what you could pay and perhaps feel a sense of entitlement.
Perhaps as one poster said, trying to send out a ton of rejections may have been a mistake. But think about, here is a shool that instead of just posting to winners as several places do, has tried to actually send a gazillion reject letters. Now they are getting hammered for doing so. Perhaps they tried to hard too be nice. In this case,it seems to me,the post card experiment failure is a small glitch in the overall scheme of things.</p>

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<p>I just want to make clear where I am on this. I have no problem getting rejection letters. Certainly not everyone will get a scholarship and my son may end up not getting any from anywhere. That is fine, competiton is stiff. My problem is that if you get a “big” envelope and the outside says “Open Immediately Scholarship Information Enclosed”, you don’t expect it to be a rejection. I thought the whole approach was misleading and confusing and could have been handled better. I was a bit disappointed to learn that it was their method and was not a mistake, and hopefully they will rethink this for the future.</p>

59

<p>I hear you, and I bet they do change things. I noticed on the UNC board some folks were not happy that rejection notices for the Robertson Scholarship came Fedex. They thought that method should be reserved for acceptances. Certainly the school was just trying to be timely but their intent caused some angst. Everyobdy is really on edge this time of year. The stakes are high and the kids and parents alike are pretty emotionally drained. A few more weeks to go. Thank God!</p>

60

<p>It appears that this thread has split into two topics. The original being about the way the mailing was handled. I think almost everyone agrees that was not well handled. I would hope that they learn from this year and do a better job next year. In the past this has not been a problem. Candidates not selected as finalists received a snail mail letter informing them of the decision. Finalists received a phone call/e-mail which was followed by a snail mail letter. It does seem strange why they changed a system that worked well in the past.</p>

<p>The second topic seems about selection of finalists. I am not sure I understand why people are upset about this. WashU is very upfront about the competition and the number of scholarships they offer. All this info, with the exception of the Danforth, is on their website. In the past year they offered approximately 150 merit scholarships which are equal to about 10% of the freshman class. These are four year scholarships, with many of them not requiring the maintaining of a minimum GPA. The extremely high quality of the applicants, unfortunately will result is some very accomplished candidates not being chosen. Also, keep in mind that the number of merit award applicants has increased dramatically over the past few years. The pool of applicants differs from year to year so side by side comparisons are impossible. I tried such a comparison once and it didn’t work. My first won a Coca Cola scholarship – I though my second was a much stronger candidate with better credentials, but they were not selected as a finalist. Different pool, different weighting of criteria – who knows.</p>

<p>I think oldolddad said it best – “Everybody is really on edge this time of year. The stakes are high and the kids and parents alike are pretty emotionally drained.” I remember the time well – some happy times – some not so happy. Fortunately everything seems to work out in the end. Good luck to everyone and if not at WashU, I am sure it will be at another great school.</p>