My DS '25 is planning on applying RD to WashU as he is being recruited to play a sport there. The school is clearly excellent with a lot of positive attributes. However, I am curious to get some thoughts from alums and others on the strength of the school’s alumni network and reputation (aside from the medical school). Specifically, how is it perceived in business outside of the Midwest? I have been in business/finance in the northeast for over 25 years and have only encountered a handful of WashU grads. For a top 20-25 school, it seems to “punch below its weight” when it comes to reputation (perhaps due to the lack of D1 sports). Schools of similar size but ranked lower (e.g., BC, Villanova, Wake Forest) seem to have more of a presence in business circles, but perhaps I am biased by my own personal experiences. Would be curious to hear from others on this topic.
Not an alum but this might help you. They seem to place more in the NE than Midwest.
At least recently.
I think colleges were more ‘regional’ in placement historically than they are today - that’s a general statement.
Good luck.
Same experience here. The school is held in high regard but I just have not encountered many alum in IB or finance (clients) in general. IB as I am sure you are aware (or you wouldn’t be asking the question) does still tend to incorporate a heavy element of alumni networking and “target” school recruiting.
We know several kids however that have gone on to med school careers and had great Wash U undergraduate experiences.
Congratulations on his being a recruited athlete. Perhaps the coach can link him to some former teammate alum who have similar professional aspirations.
There are interactive maps and such available here:
https://careers.wustl.edu/outcomes/#!ZGl2aXNpb249T2xpbiBCdXNpbmVzcyBTY2hvb2w=
You can click to see data for different undergrad schools, which is interesting. Like, Olin Business grads are WAY more concentrated in NY followed by IL (presumably mostly NYC and Chicago) than Arts & Sciences grads, and Missouri (presumably mostly St Louis) leaps from #3 to #1.
Thank you - the Career Center info. is very useful. I’m not surprised to see those stats, although I suspect that most top 50-75 schools probably show something similar. It’s interesting to see the % of recent grads in NY, even though qualitatively/anecdotally it seems like the school is under-represented compared to similarly sized peers.
Just for comparison heres Emory - it’s very similar with the swap of the MW for the SE.
And closer to the NE William & Mary Mason, very respected but shows a very different story focused on the mid Atlantic.
Given a school is in St Louis ( or Atlanta) and not sure who you might be thinking are similar - sending 4 of 10 to the Northeast (it doesn’t mean NY per se) seems high.
My son’s WUSTL interviewer worked in healthcare IB in Nashville for - I wanna say Raymond James but maybe another firm. There are many more financial hubs today than just NY.
Good luck.
I’m sure you are right that NE-located schools typically send a higher percentage of graduates to NE employers.
I thought it would be interesting to check some other Midwest business colleges to see how WashU compared.
To review, WashU (Olin) was reportedly:
NE 38%
MW 34%
W 13%
SW 5%
M-A 4%
SE 4%
I found similar data for Michigan (Ross), which was reportedly:
NE 46%
MW 32%
W 9%
SW 5%
M-A 4%
SE 3%
Really very similar, except WashU seems to send somewhat more people West, and Michigan somewhat more East (anecdotally, Michigan does seem rather popular with East Coast kids).
OK, Notre Dame (Mendoza):
NE 34%
MW 45%
W 7%
SW 2%
M-A 4%
SE 6%
A little more concentrated in the MW now. Makes sense to me because ND is a very big school in the Greater Chicago area, and conversely I think East Coast Catholic kids might more often have preferred options in that region.
And speaking of which, I will check out Georgetown (McDonough) for a comparison:
NE 60%
MW 5%
W 7%
SW 3%
M-A 20%
SE 3%
Well, there you go. Way more kids in the NE and M-A, way fewer in the MW.
Let’s look at USC (Marshall):
NE 9%
MW 3%
W 85%
SW 3%
M-A 2%
SE 2%
OK, I think we can see what is happening here.
Perhaps understandably, these coastal schools are mostly sending kids to their respect coasts–like 80+%.
The Midwest schools are sending more kids to the Midwest than the coastal schools, but not anything like 80%. And then most of the difference is going to the Northeast, with most of that specifically going to New York (although WashU a bit more to the West as well).
Edit: It occurred to me it might be worth checking out one more Midwest, Gies at Illinois, to see if after Michigan and such, the big publics start being a little more regionally based.
And sure enough, Gies reported 83% just to Illinois alone. They didn’t break down each state or by region, just listed the top states, but NY was 4%, CA and TX 3%, all others 7%.
So Illinois is a little more like a coastal school in the sense such a high percentage stayed in region, and not nearly as many went NE (NY) or indeed W (CA) as with Michigan, WashU, or ND.
Excellent data - thank you for the detailed response! Maybe I’m just working in the wrong industry or not getting exposure to the primary employers of WashU grads. I’ve certainly come across a large number of ND, Michigan, Georgetown, etc. grads over the years, but simply not that many WashU grads. Even much smaller schools like Williams and Amherst seem to have more of a “presence” in various areas of business, but the stats suggest that those WashU grads are out there somewhere! Would be curious to hear from some WashU grads on their experiences in terms of alumni networks and how the school is viewed by non-MW recruiters/employers.
WashUStL is an excellent university. I fail to understand the level of your concern / anxiety if he is planning to apply to WashUStL RD rather than ED. (Typically recruited athletes apply ED/EA in order to receive a boost in admissions from the coach.)
At this time, which other schools are recruiting your son and which other schools are of interest to your son ?
Does your son have any particular career objective ?
Does your son want to live & work in the NE US after college or is he open to other geographic locations ?
Not so much concern/anxiety - just trying to get a better sense of the strength of the alumni network of WashU outside of the Midwest (and outside of the medical community, as I know my son won’t be pursuing that track). He is fairly flexible in terms of career choices and geography, but is likely to pursue business and also end up on one of the coasts. Most of the other schools he has applied to are D1 schools and he is not being recruited at that level. The potential WashU opportunity is new (and exciting), but I am simply curious about the network/reputation outside of the MW as the “brand” is simply not as well known compared to most national/D1 schools.
I note I think part of what happens with WashU’s “brand” generally is it is sort of a jack of all trades/well-rounded type of college, not a very “spikey” type of college, maybe outside of pre-med and some Bio stuff. Nor is it a big sports college, including not being in the Ivy League or NESCAC (although it is in the UAA, but that is mostly just a thing people know about if they are already associated with one of those colleges).
OK, so it just doesn’t tend to come up much in any sort of focused conversation, usually just in general “good colleges” conversations, with the possible exception of pre-med/Bio conversations.
And actually, I suspect that happens post-graduation as well. Like, not to be undiplomatic, but usually I know if colleagues or such went to Notre Dame for college because it usually comes up in conversation, they may still have merch of some sort, or so on. This was a joke, but Andy on The Office being super into having attended Cornell does, in my experience, reflect a bit of truth about those colleges as well. Whereas I am not sure alums of WashU are going to be quite so obvious to others.
But as far as I can tell, none of this is a big barrier to employers, grad or professional schools, or so on thinking of WashU as in fact a good college with graduates in which they might be interested. Like, if they are in a position where it matters, they will know it is selective, they will know a lot of the kids were academic high-flyers in HS, they will know the classes are challenging, they will know it is not considered overly grade-inflated, and so on. Which is a positive brand, even if it is not the sort of spikey brand that gets talked a lot about in casual conversations.
Then in terms of alum networks–I always think this is a more complex issue than some people suggest because in any sort of networking situation you have to look at both the supply AND demand side.
So if College A sends a lot of graduates to some labor market, on the one hand that may mean a lot of well-placed alums, but on the other they may also see a lot of recent grads looking for positions. And in fact, if they see too many, they may basically do nothing for any of them absent some more personal connection (like this is my old roommate’s kid or something like that). So this sort of market condition may benefit a few kids but not be particularly helpful for most others.
Of course if College B has previously sent extremely few grads to some labor market, that may also not be very helpful because there may be few or no well-placed alums for a given interest.
But exactly how many grads would be ideal, or if it even matters past a certain point, is not so obvious.
My kid is a current WashU senior. They are from the midwest, but has job offer with MMB firm in SW. In their friend group, there are 2 others with MMB offers (east coast), 2 with big 4 offers, 1 with IB in NYC, 1 with quant in NYC, 2 with CS offers in midwest and west coast , 1 marketing in STL and 4 pre-meds. I think most are going back to the areas they came from. Don’t worry about the alumni network being an issue.
Looking at the intern group of 12 from the MBB internship - there was only 1 from an Ivy/Ivy + school and 6 from top state schools. The rest were from schools somewhat similar to WashU (such as Emory/Vandy/Tulane) It seems there is a bit of a trend to not only focus on the Ivy+ schools for current interns. They were able to see the intern face sheet for all the offices of her firm and this trend was not unique to just their office.
Within the past few years, one respected source that ranks undergraduate business schools placed WUSTL’s undergrad business program at #1. Therefore, if your son is flexible regarding geographic location, he should do well. If targeting the NE US, then be prepared to work hard to get an internship in that region.
I have no specific knowledge regarding WUSTL’s alumni connections, but unlikely that it has a strong presence in the NE US since there are so many excellent business schools in that region whose alumni do have a strong network.
However, your concern is critical if your son is required/requested by the coach to apply ED to WUSTL as it is a binding contractual commitment. Probably not a wise move if one is targeting employment in the NE US.
I, for one, think a lot of “big name schools” punch under their weight in general awareness.
WUSTL or now Wash U probably always gets confused with U Wash. U Chicago is another and certainly Rice - people don’t know Rice. My sister thought Emory was an HBCU and I don’t think many know about that. I only knew about Washington & Lee because my dad’s friend went there. Few in Nashville know it. And some parents on here say some folks have never heard of Williams and Amherst - and they’re the creme de la creme. And then a parent the other day said their UPenn student always is being asked about Penn State - and they have to say - no the other one in Philly. And I promise you, ask 100 people outside the Northeast about Tufts - and probably 90 never heard of it.
A lot of it is sports related. Wake Forest - yep. Vanderbilt - yep. UCLA - yep. Even Gonzaga today - yep. Big time conferences or sports.
I think track record wise, there’s no issue with any of these schools.
And perhaps short of a few fields, I think geography plays little part today - as you have the internet - and kids applying online via indeed/linkedin or handshake. Even look at Cornell’s career site - kids are finding jobs on their own, not via the school, in most cases.
My U Alabama son, an engineer, not business, had an offer from a major defense contractor in between Boston/Providence. He ended up on a Western track his first two years - serving rotations so far in Utah, Arizona, and California. His offers were all over - the midwest, south, NE, West, etc. And at the urging of a poster on here, he sent in his resume for a job at Jane Street in NYC, and the next day received their “quant placement test” which he then didn’t complete.
It’s a different world today, perhaps thanks to covid, reduced travel budgets and the internet.
WUSTL has stats that show the NE (not necessarily NY) - and even schools that show little in that regards to NYC are likely moreso from where the students are choosing to apply vs. anything else. Today, algorithms and software are choosing whether to interview someone in many cases.
You can always ask the school for a detailed report with job titles, specific companies, and location. And / or run LinkedIn searches on your own.
I get the ED part - because it’s binding - but as an athlete, and I’m not an athlete parent, I see how that plays a part too.
But career wise, unless maybe a select few, I don’t see it a hindrance at all - as long as the student is persistent and puts focus on the career.
Is the name well known - nope. But is it well known in the circles where it needs to be - very likely so.
Good luck.
I agree with all of this and I think it is particularly important to recognize how much has changed just in the last few years.
My friends and acquaintances that are involved in recruiting/hiring pretty much all have the same story these days. The popularization of Zoom interviews and such since COVID has allowed them to cast much wider nets, which is exciting in the sense they feel like they are getting to see more potential recruits of the sort they are really looking for, from a wider variety of origins. And it can be a bit overwhelming sometimes too, but they are using smart technologies to do more processing of resumes and applications, sometimes doing things like online assessments/tests, and so on.
And that does not mean the concept of target colleges and such is entirely dead, not yet, but I think they would all agree it is now way easier for any given individual who is not from one of their traditional target colleges to get in front of them, and they are happy to consider them as long as they score well in that screening process.
To me this is just all the more emphasizing that when choosing a college, you want to think holistically yourself, and make sure you are picking a comfortably affordable college where you think you have a good chance of truly thriving. And people are adaptable so there may be a variety of colleges that fit that standard, but just make sure you are reasonably confident you are choosing one of those.
And then if you do that, and actually thrive, then I am confident you will be able to look for suitable next steps really anywhere. Because next step gatekeepers everywhere are looking for kids who have thrived wherever they were.
Well yes, for finance its new eclipsed by BC, Vandy, Emory etc. But still has decent placement. Your child will get the job they want out of WU especially since they have connections from you.
If you want Ib out of WashU expect to be in Chicago and do a lateral transfer to NYC.
Some helpful points made on this thread- but just want to clear up a few things which might be misleading for parents whose kids are not yet at the recruiting stage of college.
Handshake allows a company to specify which colleges they are targeting. So if your kid is at East Overshoe University studying CS, they are NOT seeing the internship or job postings which will appear for Caltech, MIT, Stanford, UIUC. Can they “borrow” the log in from a friend at one of these U’s? Yes. Can the college send a turndown email from applicants who aren’t at one of the U’s they are targeting? Yes.
So sure- Covid, Zoom interviews, technology have all made some things easier on the recruiting front. But other things have NOT changed. When a company is looking for a specific set of skills- fluency in Mandarin for example, or having taken specific college courses( econometrics, valuation, statistics with programming) it’s not because they are being mean and are being “gatekeepers”. It’s because the particular role in question actually requires those skills. So sure, apply even if you don’t have those skills, and then wait for your turndown email.
Rigor- there is NO substitute for rigor for companies which are in high demand. There’s a reason why recruiters love Princeton, Swarthmore, U Chicago, RPI… and it ain’t the weather (most of the time). Rigor matters for many roles. So- your kid isn’t at one of these colleges- are they destined to fold sweaters at Old Navy for the rest of their life? No. Make your OWN rigor, kid. Write a senior thesis even if it isn’t a requirement for your college. Take that grad seminar instead of the easy A studying the gut course that everyone knows is the easy A. Don’t drop Mandarin, Korean (or any of the other strategic languages designated by the State Department) because you’re going to get a B. Push yourself and make it the hardest B you’ve ever gotten- and keep pushing because fluency in one of these languages is VERY valuable in the job market- and not just for the CIA, NSA, etc. Companies expanding their footprint overseas need employees who can operate outside their hotel (where everyone speaks English) and often in rural or semi-rural areas where a large production plant might be located.
Etc. I’ve gotten nasty pushback on CC when I get on my rigor soap box (am I an elitist for suggesting that a kid at your local, non-flagship public U find a way to beef up their educational experience? I don’t think so…) but I’ve sat through thousands of meetings pulling together our “Nifty Fifty” list or our “Must interview” schedule and for the most part- no matter which college, no matter what major, it appears that rigor is the great equalizer.
Who is more valuable- a kid interested in Market Research at a consumer services company who took a two semester statistics sequence, or the kid who has taken advanced analytics, a grad seminar in the psych department on the link between visual / aural stimuli and human behavior, AND wrote a senior thesis which required sophisticated manipulation of census data? Entire industries (snack foods, casino gambling, high end coffee chains, etc.) are predicated on the link between external
stimuli and human behavior, for pete’s sake! And there are very few jobs these days in corporate America where experience with large datasets isn’t helpful… even if folks of our generation don’t quite see the link.
Carry on. Just clearing up a few things…
Agreed and some very elite companies have addressed this by casting a very wide net through the use of technology.
For example, per their website, anyone can apply to take the Jane Street placement exam as they don’t have strict requirements regarding school background or prior finance experience; however, the exam is designed for highly skilled individuals with strong mathematical and computer science knowledge, making it extremely challenging for most people without a strong foundation in those areas to pass. In other words take your shot and let’s see what you got.
They want to get the best and brightest and are well known to recruit heavily at MIT among several target schools but will allow any and all into the process if they can prove themselves in advance.
It is however a very challenging prescreen that must be cleared before you are actually even considered by an HR professional for an interview process that typically has 4 rounds of escalating difficulty and typically includes 15-20 current employees.
Versions of this prescreening (as @blossom suggests) are undertaken by most large investment banks who use technology to sort through the tens of thousands of resumes received. Key words, target schools, threshold stats, etc are all considered and used to cull down the proverbial heard. As OP seems to recognize an active and engaged alumni network remains the best way to garner incremental attention or gain access to the “in person” process in spite of the aforementioned technological obstacles.
Wash U as others have referenced (including OP) is underrepresented in some fields but highly respected. I don’t think it should be of a major concern to OP but I don’t think the concern should be dismissed out of hand depending on the eventual career path.
WashU has a great reputation, especially in academics, but I agree it’s not as widely known in business circles outside the Midwest. Schools like BC or Wake Forest seem to have more visibility in those areas, likely due to their larger alumni networks and athletic programs. That said, WashU grads are respected and growing in recognition.