"Weak" majors

<p>Business majors are NOT necessarily ‘weak’ majors for law school. I majored in accounting, and there were several other accounting majors in my law school class. Again, all law schools care about is GPAs and LSATs. In fact, one of the business majors scored in the top 10% of the class and were on Law Review.</p>

<p>The fact that you went to Harvard, MIT or State U is probably immaterial. Maybe I am wrong,but I haven’t seen that much of a difference regarding the undergraduate schools and law school admission.</p>

<p>I will also note that in law school, we had kids from ivy school, Rice, MIT, Miami, State universities of all kinds etc. Interestingly, kids from the top undergraduate schools didn’t necessarily do better than the ones who had lessor standards.</p>

<p>For example, the top 5 kids who graduated from our law school were from Miami,George Washington Univ. Yale, and two state universities! The bottom two kids in the class both attended Harvard! The kids that I know who attended Rice, Princeton and Cornell did not graduate in the top 10% since they weren’t on Law Review. Just something to think about when you apply to that very competitive undergraduate program.</p>

<p>there’s a difference between majoring in accounting and businees, sure an accounting major is a subfield of business, but it’s not a business major itself</p>

<p>Which is one reason why Law School despite my “law-like majors” (they even ask on the declaration of major form if you’re considering law school!) is not on my career list right now. The law school atmosphere is too cut-throat and it almost penalizes you to attend a competitive school which grants harder courses/lower grades.</p>

<p>Justice~, is the med-school admissions rate at MIT “fantastic”? I guess it depends on how you define “fantastic”. See for yourself</p>

<p><a href=“http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/preprof.html[/url]”>http://web.mit.edu/career/www/infostats/preprof.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>74% of all MIT students who apply to med-school get into at least one med-school (the other 26% get rejected from every med-school they apply to). Is 74% “fantastic”? It is certainly better than the national average. But then again, the student body at MIT is significantly better than the national student body at all colleges, so you would expect that the admit rate would be higher than the national average. What we should be doing is comparing the admit rate of MIT students to that of peer schools. For example, I would assert that the quality of the student bodies at MIT and, say, Princeton, are roughly equivalent. Yet the admit rate for Princeton grads into med-school is almost 90%. I don’t know about you, but Princeton’s admit rate seems to be far more of a fantastic rate to me than is MIT’s rate.</p>

<p><a href=“http://web.princeton.edu/sites/hpa/2004.pdf[/url]”>http://web.princeton.edu/sites/hpa/2004.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>As to why MIT students don’t feel screwed, well, not to be overly controversial, but a lot of MIT students haven’t looked at the data. Many of them are laboring under the dubious belief that med-schools will compensate them for their tough coursework. You’re entitled to your own opinion, but you’re not entitled to your own facts. Again, look at the data. The average MIT admitted student had a 3.7/4 (where MIT’s 5-point scale was translated into a 4-point scale). The average admitted Princeton student had something around a 3.5-3.6/4. So an MIT student actually needs HIGHER grades than the average Princeton student, a shocking fact when I think we all agree that MIT tends to grade harder than Princeton does. But that’s what the data says. Look at the data. So tell me again about how your friends at MIT don’t feel screwed? I would say that they should first look at the data and then compare it to the data of other elite schools and then figure out whether they still don’t think they’re getting screwed. </p>

<p>Finally, about the contention that the MCAT’s are based on advanced science. Oh really? Um, have you actually looked at the content of the MCAT’s. The content is basically English, general chem, inorganic chem, general bio, and general physics. All of this stuff can be learned from a premed sequence at any school. That’s all fairly basic stuff. Furthermore, anybody who’s applying to med-school must take the entire premed sequence anyway. So if you take a weak major, you still gotta take O-Chem, physics, etc. etc. in order to satisfy med-school admissions requirements. Hence, you still have plenty of opportunity to bone up on all the things you need for your MCAT.</p>

<p>Now, I never said that people should not major in what they like. My point is that your choice has consequences. If you like electrical engineering, then you should study electrical engineering. At the same time, you should understand that if you do study EE, you may be reducing your chances of getting admitted to medical school. That doesn’t mean that you should automatically choose not to do EE, but it does mean that you should know the possible consequences. Go into the process with your eyes wide open. You can choose to do whatever you want, but you cannot have the consequences of your choices be whatever you want.</p>

<p>Taxguy, what you bring up is important but not necessarily what we’re talking about here. I think the purposes of this discussion is to talk about what are the best majors to get into law school, not necessarily what are the best to have had once you are already in law-school. Particularly the elite law schools. The flunkout rate of the elite law schools is miniscule which means that once you get in, you’re pretty much guaranteed to graduate. The trick is getting admitted in the first place. What does it matter if you had such a fantastic undergraduate education that you would have graduated #1 from an elite law school if you can’t get admitted to that elite law school in the first place because your grades from that undergraduate education were too low? You already lost the game before you even had a chance to play.</p>

<p>I would however argue that there are important differences in the admit rates between various schools. I agree that that the differences have to do with the quality of the student body. HYPS, for example, get lots of their students into elite law schools, and a big reason for that is quite simply their student bodies are of high quality, so they’re going to get very high LSAT scores. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.yale.edu/career/students/gradprof/lawschool/media/statistics2003.pdf[/url]”>http://www.yale.edu/career/students/gradprof/lawschool/media/statistics2003.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://web.princeton.edu/sites/career/Undergrad/GradSchool/pre-law8.html[/url]”>http://web.princeton.edu/sites/career/Undergrad/GradSchool/pre-law8.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>However, some schools are worse than others, even when drawing upon the same quality of student body. Again, I would assert that relative to the quality of students they have, MIT is one of the worst. The MIT law-school admit rate is significantly lower than that of HYPS, despite the fact that there isn’t much difference in the quality of student in those 5 schools. Unfortunately I have the MIT prelaw data in hardcopy only, so I can’t post a link. But the difference is clear. MIT students do not do well, and I believe that the reason is that MIT gives out lots and lots of bad grades, and those bad grades hurt the chances of their students in getting into law school. It is also entirely possible that perhaps it’s the tremendously tech-focused education that MIT provides that does not help its students write good law-school app essays or whatever. But regardless of the reason why, it doesn’t take away from the fact that for some reason, attending MIT does not seem to be helpful in getting into law school.</p>

<p>As a corollary, I would also say that, for the purposes of prelaw there is a big difference between attending a school like HYPS and a state U, because of grade inflation and retention rates. The fact is, if you get into HYPS, you’re pretty much guaranteed to graduate - flunking out is pretty much impossible. The graduation rates at HYPS are far far higher than that of even the best state U. And not only are you extremely unlikely not to graduate, you are also extremely unlikely to get truly bad grades. HYPS are well known for grade inflation, which means that you are effectively guaranteed to get pretty high grades. This is certainly not true of many if not most state schools where getting bad grades and/or flunking out is a perennial danger. So by booking your ticket to HYPS, you are in many ways putting yourself in a position to at least be competitive for law-school admissions. If you go to State U, hey, you may not even graduate.</p>

<p>So I would agree with you that going to HYPS or some other program like that may not affect how well you do while you’re in law school. But I would argue that they do have a profound impact upon your getting into law school in the first place. In order to do well in law school, you first have to get into law school. Hence, I assert that places like HYPS are desirable places to go for prelaw, while places like MIT and Caltech are probably less desirable.</p>

<p>SAKKY, I was only making two points:</p>

<p>1, In response to some posts: business majors and especially accounting majors, are NOT necessarily at a competitive disadvantage in getting admitted to law schools.</p>

<ol>
<li>It is NOT necessarily the hardness/weakness of the major that determines law school admissions ( which is what this post was about) but the GPA and LSAT scores.</li>
</ol>

<p>Those are the only points that I wanted to make. No digression from the discussion was intended.</p>

<p>I understand exactly what you wrote, and I completely agree 100% with you on both your points. GPA/LSAT are king when it comes to admission. There is no daylight between you and I on these issues. We are as one.</p>

<p>However, what I’m saying is that you did end up talking about what you saw while you were in law school - who was successful, who got Law Review, and so forth. And while that’s important, no doubt, it’s not as important as getting into law school in the first place, because like I said, if we’re restricting ourselves to the elite law schools, then once you get in, you’re pretty much guaranteed to graduate with your law degree. Maybe you won’t get Law Review, but you will at least graduate, and so obviously you’re far far better off than those people who didn’t get in.</p>

<p>So to expand on your two points - not only do I completely agree with your #1, I would go further and say that business majors may actually be at a competitive advantage in getting into law school. Why? Because business majors tend to have easier grading. Now obviously not all business majors are this way, but I would argue that most are. And easier grading is exactly what you want. So your point #1 is right on target. Furthermore, your point #2 is also exactly on target. Law schools care about grades, so that’s what you need to give them. </p>

<p>So if you want to take 4 years worth of Physics for Poets, and your undergrad program will actually let you do that, then that may well be a cunning and sly strategy to getting into law school. It’s quite sad, but that’s the truth of law school admissions.</p>

<p>SAKKY :slight_smile: Completely agree!</p>

<p>It’s hard to compare schools’ data on premed admission, because many of them only allow a certain percentage of students to be premed, as a way of keeping their stats high.</p>

<p>Re the OP, fwiw, I have a relative who was a music major. She did superbly on the LSAT and went to a top 5 law school. I don’t think music is a “weak” major, but it’s not what we’d usually think of as a prelaw curriculum. She is an excellent writer.</p>

<p>What you are referring to is the practice of some schools of withholding the Dean’s letter or pre-med rec letter than all premeds need in order to apply to med-school. The Ivies, MIT, and Caltech do not engage in this practice, so the data from premeds from those schools are comparable.</p>

<p>if you have to follow a pre-med program to go to med school, do you have to follow a pre-law program to go to law school?</p>

<p>Rabo, there is no “pre-law” curriculum. You just need to take courses that involve critical reading, analyzing and writing skills. Oratory/rhetoric skills help too. You can major in anything.</p>

<p>It is very sad that to law school a person with an education major and a 3.7 is viewed more highly than a person with a double major in Statistics and Comp Science and a 3.5 gpa even though the person with the Stat/Comp Sci degree worked harder for his 3.5.</p>

<p>That is why Law School is a last resort on my list of graduate schools. No way I will have a 4.0 college overall GPA. If I even get a 3.5 that would be marvelous, but not according to the law school adcoms…</p>

<p>For law school, folks, major in the easiest, but still most interesting and challenging, major you possibly can if you are aiming for a high GPA. Sad but true!!! If law school is truly your route and nothing else!</p>

<p>Sad but true indeed. But that is the game. It shouldn’t be that way, but it is that way. The same thing holds for med-school. You gotta get high grades, and it doesn’t really matter how you get them, as long as you get them. So if that means doing an easy major at an easy school, then so be it. For those of you who don’t like it, take it up with the law school and med-school adcoms. They’re the ones who set up this system.</p>

<p>That’s why, Sakky, my future looks very bleak post-college. I will most likely graduate with a 3.3-3.5 (I love my major(s) but some core classes are just ridiculously difficult. The upper-level courses are much easier.) overall GPA from a Top 15 school and these adcoms won’t give a crap about my circumstances. “You just ain’t cut for our school.” Sighs…oh well.</p>

<p>I know some students with less than stellar grades who took time off to do something interesting…work as paralegals in big firms, work for political campaigns, work in nonprofit advocacy organizations. They got into law school. Evidently this approach also enables you to use your senior year grades, which law schools don’t otherwise consider.</p>

<p>Interesting and highly informative thread.</p>

<p>tenisghs: what sort of career were you contemplaing that is now irrevocably doomed because you only have a B average in a top 15 school?</p>

<p>Dadofsam, I plan to attend graduate school. In what field? I’m not sure yet.
I’m looking at Ph.D. programs in sociology, political science or public policy.
I may just get a Masters in Public Policy.
I don’t think Law School fits me, since I’m an idealist whose interests are social change.</p>