<p>Strange place for such comments/listing to appear, but in a West Point parent handbook Princeton was noted for offering “the best undergraduate education in the country” as well as being the most difficult school to get into. Take a look at their findings:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.west-point.org/parent/wppc-long-island/handbooks.htm[/url]”>http://www.west-point.org/parent/wppc-long-island/handbooks.htm</a></p>
<p>Caltech and MIT don’t even make that list but (certain schools which shall remain anonymous :p) do? I’m not convinced, lol.</p>
<p>First of all, it’s called “The Ten Toughest Schools to Get Into”, not “the real college experience as defined by some ignorant poster on CC”. Don’t tell me Caltech and MIT are easier to get into than Amherst. And I think any Caltech or MIT student would be incredibly offended by your rash generalizations.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Have you ever <i>met</i> the average Caltech or MIT (especially MIT) student? Stereotyping their students as “a bunch of nerds gossiping about their grades” is an obnoxious and absolutely untrue generalization. It’s like saying all the Ivy students are a bunch of New England preps who only got in because their alum daddies gave the school a lot of donations. The definining feature of Caltech and MIT students are that they are incredibly smart (just like any other school on that list) and that they are, on the whole, extremely passionate about math and science. I don’t know what your “real college experience” is but if everyone had your apparent disdain for mathematics and science, our country’s gradual decline would speed up immensely. There’s enough animosity towards these fields in the States today. I would surmise that for someone who’s passionate in math or science, these two schools will provide some of the very best undergrad experiences. And the people at these schools are very interesting and eclectic and while some are very competitive, they don’t just sit around “gossiping about their grades” (every time I read that I start fuming, your ignorance is overwhelming). I visited Caltech this summer and the tour guide told us if you get in and ask someone what their SATs are, you’ll get laughed at. It’s assumed everyone there is smart (does school-wide intelligence “automatically ban them from contending for best undergrad experience”?), the grades really aren’t that important.</p></li>
<li><p>Again, the list is called “The Ten Toughest Schools to Get Into”. I don’t see anything there precluding research-heavy institutions. Plus, Cooper Union is #3 on that list, so much for it being all liberal arts schools…</p></li>
<li><p>Oh, thank you for the well-backed up statement 
I relent, Caltech and MIT are really bad schools and a cinch to get in to.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Heh, I’m not quite sure what to do with this. Should I just not respond to your completely asinine personal attack then?</p>
<p>Are you talking to yourself Guitar? :p</p>
<p>I think Cooper Union is an extremely underrated school - I hear it has free tuition and stuff and has an engineering program thats better than MIT/Caltech/Stanford and an acceptance rate of around 5%.</p>
<p>Yeah, Cooper Union is extremely specialized but an AMAZING school. And not in a shabby area, either.</p>
<p>From West Point’s Admissions Homepage:</p>
<p>“West Point and Princeton University are the only academic institutions in the nation that rank in the top four in both Rhodes and Hertz Scholarships awarded for excellence in undergraduate study.”</p>
<p><a href=“http://admissions.usma.edu/Prospectus/wpe_academic.cfm[/url]”>http://admissions.usma.edu/Prospectus/wpe_academic.cfm</a></p>
<p>Oooo don’t forget Olin, Guitar & kjoodles. I think it’s getting there too.</p>
<p>Princeton is the easiest to get into among HYPSMC.</p>
<p>If any princeton ■■■■■■ want to argue with this fact, first read the Revealed Preference Ranking.</p>
<p>It’s pretty sad that Pton has to resort to accepting likely Harvard, Yale, Stanford rejects just to look as selective.</p>
<p>Diamond,
Revealed Preference was a one time, tainted survey of a limited number of high school student opinions. Its authors included two Harvard employees (one of whom had her research techniques questioned in academic circles). The follow up book, “The Early Admissions Game” was a commercial failure. Neither the study nor the book are used or referred to by any College Guideance office that I am aware of. I challenge you to find the RP study as a reference listing at any high school college counseling site. Independent studies which measured the opinions of college students, came out with results that mirrored those in the West Point handbook. (I would put greater faith in the opinions of students who actually attend the school they are evaluating). Finally, with regard to the opinions of national, independent evaluators, they also fall in line with the rankings in the West Point handbook. After the RP high school study the Atlantic Monthly ranked the top 25 US colleges in terms of Selectivity. Its top 5 were: 1. MIT, 2. Princeton, 3. CalTech, 4. Yale and 5. Harvard. Since then other national selectivity rankings by major national publications have confirmed this result.</p>
<p>According to US News and World Report, Princeton ranked 4 for selectivity for the class of 2008, behind Harvard, Yale, and I believe MIT, but above Stanford and Caltech. The class of 2008 was a relatively weak admissions year for Princeton; if I remember correctly, US News had Princeton at 2nd, tied with MIT, and behind only Yale in 2007. I don’t know exactly what the 2009 numbers look like, but it seems like there was a rebound from 2008.</p>
<p>The Princeton Review rankings for this year, which I believe is also for 2008, has Princeton at 3rd, behind Yale and MIT. Incidentally, Stanford is 9th on this list, behind not only HYPMC but also Olin, Columbia, and Penn. </p>
<p>I’m not sure if providing these stats makes me a ■■■■■, but I guess I’ll have to risk it.</p>
<p>ICargirl,
In addition to what you said please note that the US News selectivity ranking is a simple one that takes into account the total number of apps received regardless of quality. This greatly benefits schools that spend money on marketing (and we know Princeton does very little marketing). The Princeton Review ranking, which took place at or about the time of the Atlantic Monthly study, involved detailed selectivity criteria which excluded the unqualified or “junk” apps a school received. The net result of the review revealed the following: 1. MIT, 2. Princeton, 3. CalTech, 4. Yale and 5. Harvard. This past year Yale moved up to #2 and Princeton to #3. I suspect, after a seemingly strong app count this year, Princeton will move up again next year.</p>
<p>Because whether Princeton is the second or fifth most selective school in the nation is of utmost importance to me.</p>
<p>If it isn’t top 3 I refuse to attend this junk institution!!</p>
<p>I rely entirely on handbooks from military academies in order to decide which school is best for me.</p>
<p>The decision to apply to a particular school should be based on a number of factors. West Point’s parent handbook opinion is but one.</p>
<p>It’s the only one that matters to me! Is there any way for me to cancel my matriculation to Harvard?</p>
<p>Yeeesh…the excessive sarcasm is really unnecessary.</p>
<p>Sorry. That was totally unnecessary, you’re right.</p>
<p>(excerpt)
" Before Vietnam some of our best universities such as Duke, Yale and Princeton had vibrant defense studies programs that gave future combat leaders the opportunity to learn from many great teachers of the art of war. For the most part those programs and teachers are gone, victims of an academic culture that somehow believes that ignoring the study of war will make wars go away."</p>
<p>Should Princeton bring back defense studies?</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,86149,00.html[/url]”>http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,86149,00.html</a></p>