<p>I don’t mean “challenged” as compared to the general population, but if a student is not particularly strong in math as far as Ivy League applicants go, how difficult will it be to succeed at Wharton assuming s/he can be admitted? The info. session stressed how quantitative the program is, and we’re aware that calculus in high school is a must for applicants. D will take calc this year as a junior, but not at the AP level. She could go on to take AP Calc as a senior if necessary, but since she only got a B+ in pre-calc she didn’t qualify for AP as a junior, unlike many other kids at her high school who did. That’s what I mean when I say she’s not particularly strong in math.</p>
<p>D has a creative bent and is good at writing, so she wants to focus more on marketing and communication. How much of a problem would that concentration be if she’s comparatively weak at math?</p>
<p>Also, can you survive and be happy at Wharton if you’re not hyper-ambitious and uber-competitive about academics?</p>
<p>You should understand that most of the students will be very, very strong at math so it is likely that you daughter will have at least some trouble keeping up. Also, given the less than ideal math marks, it will be tough to get accepted in the first place.</p>
<p>The Wharton undergraduate curriculum is obviously very math based, it is a business school after all. You’re required to take a year of Calc (or place out of 1 or both semesters), but many of the core courses (especially BPUB250, & the finance courses) are also going to require a very strong math foundation, and the capability to adapt the calculus to business issues.</p>
<p>Between this issue, and your latter question (Wharton is not easy and you have to be very goal driven), your daughter should definitley consider applying to the college instead of Wharton. In fact, she seems like a good fit at the college and a pretty bad (sorry) fit for wharton. We have a very good consumer psych minor (take classes in both wharton and S&S) that would be a good idea for someone who wants to go into marketing.</p>
<p>The difficulty in evaluating D’s math aptitude is the fact that our high school (and middle school too, where D took Algebra and Geometry) has a pretty weak math dept. Many, many kids from her high school (big Asian population) go for outside tutoring and summer math classes, which enables them to succeed in the upper level classes despite the poor in-school preparation. I’m not sure the math grades are completely reliable indicators of her quantitative ability. As long as many kids are getting taught elsewhere, the pressure is off the teachers to make sure kids understand the lessons, and pass the tests.</p>
<p>Judging by her PSAT’s, D’s SAT math score will likely be in the 700-730 range. Is that too low?</p>
<p>Also, to clarify, D is not competitive in terms of wanting to land the best job with the best salary in one of the best financial firms. But she does have a competitive nature in the sense of generally wanting to excel. I guess I’m asking whether you have to have the personality of a business shark to fit in.</p>
<p>A 730 won’t kill her application by any means, but she’ll have to have something else to make up for it. But I wouldn’t want to come to Wharton struggling at math-- but if she does alright in AP Calc (at least a 4 on the exam), she’ll be fine. She should be sure she really prefers wharton to the college though, because if you take a look at the required courses for w, you’re going to need to be good at math.
edit: I was browsing and see that your D is a recruited athlete. So nevermind, a 700 is just fine. A 650 would actually even be fine.</p>
<p>The evil/ultra-competitive/shark-like persona attached to wharton kids is (often deserved, but) quite exaggerated. If you want a job at any of the big finance guys you either need connections or an amazing gpa, so there are a large number of kids who are quite cutthroat to make sure they get their part. However, most of these kids are actually normal. Especially since she’s more interested in marketing, she’d be fine.</p>
<p>GFG, I realise that your D may be able to attend Wharton because of athletic recruitment. Penn is unique in that they use Wharton as a recruitment tool. However, the courses at Wharton are very math based and even if she concentrates on a non math subject, there are many core classes that are very quantitative. I understand that you want her to have a major that is marketable to employers, but those firms that recruit at Wharton will want her to list her GPA, right at the top of her resume. </p>
<p>My S made the baseball team there as a walk-on but withdrew because of the brutal schedule of training and games. Players were not allowed to take any afternoon classes because it would interfere with games and practice. In addition, one would miss many classes due to away games and certainly they would cut into hours of homework and study . There are many schools including some Ivies in which the hardest thing there is getting in, but the hardest thing about Wharton is keeping up. Students who go to Wharton are very competitive and the Wharton curve is infamous.</p>
<p>I think you and your daughter should visit the schools, attend the classes, talk to students and see where she feels comfortable in terms of being an athlete and a serious student.</p>
<p>huh? I thought we were only required to take one semester of calc. I also thought that most Wharton students took Math104 their freshman fall semester? Please correct me if I am wrong.</p>
<p>In the Wharton info. session, we were told that students MUST have taken calculus in high school to be accepted at Wharton. In the sample freshman schedule we were shown, “Math” was listed for the first semester, the level of which I assumed would be determined by what the student was entering with. For my D, I figured it would be calculus of some sort, eg. a harder or second level. For second semester, the sample schedule had “Statistics.”</p>
<p>I’m not at all denying what anyone is saying about having to be strong in math. Obviously, I was thinking the same thing and that’s why I posted. But here’s the question I have. Wharton has about 200 varsity athletes enrolled, some of whom were likely lured to Penn by the promise of a Wharton admission. (cbreeze is not the first to tell us that it’s used as a recruiting tool.) No doubt many of these athletes are much brighter than my D, but I’m willing to bet there are quite a few who aren’t. Somehow they make it and graduate. So thinking of it that way, I can say “Why not?” if that’s what she wants (she says it is. I’m the one with the doubts.) She’d get free tutoring and other academic support. </p>
<p>Oh don’t worry, there are plenty of dumb athletes (and plenty of incredibly bright ones, as well). I have no doubt she will “make it and graduate”, and if it’s what she wants she should go for it. As long as she knows that Wharton is very quantitative and isn’t afriad of getting a C once and a while (it’s not high school anymore, the large intro classes are curved so the AVERAGE student gets a B-/B depending on the class).<br>
Also, some athletes who are accepted with lower scores/grades are forced to go to study hall a couple nights a week for a few hours. And the tutoring here for athletes isn’t great.</p>
You should ask admissions how many of these athletes who enrolled at Wharton graduate. If so, do they stay at Wharton or are they forced to transfer to another college. Don’t ask the coaches, ask the admissions.</p>
<p>What’s not great about the tutoring? The availability of the tutors, their level of knowledge, what?</p>
<p>Also, is it really true that it’s very hard to get into a certain Ivy (or Ivies), but easy to get out? Plenty of people have disputed that claim, and to a point it defies logic.</p>
<p>Why did you insert that plug about Asians? A little profiling? </p>
<p>I know Wharton is math intensive and a B+ is weak by Ivy standards but I think if your Daughter has the work ethic and is willing to put in the time, she’ll be fine. Honestly, I don’t think there’s a reason NOT to apply, just a question about getting in. </p>
<p>My schools math department was pretty weak, and I only took AB calc, and got a 3 on the exam, but I was accepted to a pretty competitive program at Penn which included Wharton and Engineering, granted my SATs were a lot higher than that 3.</p>
<p>GFG, it is easy to graduate from Penn depending on what major you choose. Graduating from Wharton is tough, but doable. Graduating with good grades while balancing a sport and a tough concentration is pretty hard. Same stuff can be said about any college though. Harvard is the toughest college to get into and I’m pretty sure you’ll find a much easier road to graduation as a communications major aiming for a 2.5 than a math major aiming for a 3.5.</p>
<p>cornell–didn’t mean to offend, just meant to communicate that D is in honors classes where the vast majority of kids are Asian and adhere to an educational norm which entails regularly going for outside enrichment tutoring and summer academic classes–something she doesn’t do. Yes, it’s a generalization, but it’s also a highly accurate one in our community. Most kids at the math level just higher than D’s have gone to Kumon or the local tutoring center for years. Therefore, it’s hard to determine if they’re smarter and better at math, or just had better instruction and more help.</p>
<p>They probably were and had all of the above. Smart, better at math and had better instruction and more help.</p>
<p>My S, a very strong student , called home after his first week at Wharton describing it as “a pressure cooker.” He also joked that the students sitting in the first three rows of all Wharton classes had names that he couldn’t pronounce.</p>