<p>Oh my gosh, only on CC would one be calling a kid in a private boarding school in Vermont “average.” Get real!</p>
<p>baseballmom my older s goes to Muhlenberg College in PA and loves it. It is a smallish school that has opportunites for kids who like both sports and the arts- with amazing facilities for both. My s likes hiking and was happy with the fact that the school isn’t too far from the Appalachian Trail. (no crewing though) I don’t think the reviews in the college guides are particularly accurate- my son was convinced that he wouldn’t like it there based on what he had read- but we went anyway because it had some specific qualifications that met his needs. As soon as we got there he knew it was the place for him and has never looked back. There’s an upbeat energetic feel about the school and the faculty and administration are very caring. Might be worth your taking a look.
andi</p>
<p>Your daughter is NOT average and the CC pool of people is not an accurate reflection of people applying. You are talking to basically the very top and just because your daughter is not getting straight As, does not mean she can’t go ANYWHERE she wants to. Maybe not Harvard or Columbia–but Wesleyan, Kenyon, NYU, georgetown, all those places just below the top would be great for her. I think you’re overreeacting and selling your daughter short.</p>
<p>my daughter is “slightly above average” with a 1400 SAT but non-stellar grade and limited EC’s due to chronic fatigue syndrome. After applying to many schools and dealing with the snob factor (she was admitted to several first-tier LAC’s) she will be attending Eckerd. I can’t tell you how impressed we are with this school, their approach, and the testimony of formerly “underachieving” students who have reached their potential there. Despite their broad admission requirements, I think it is an engaging and challenging academic environment with the added plus of amazing water sports.</p>
<p>Well, ditto for me that I don’t think your daughter average. I think you have some great suggestions already and I’ll need them all in a few years with my son: classic underachiever with a great brain that I’m begining to fear may go unused his whole life. <em>sigh</em></p>
<p>Carolyn: you truly do NOT need that counseling degree - you have got to be THE most informed person on these boards when it comes to college suggestions!</p>
<p>ceruleanne,</p>
<p>I agree that OP’s D is not average, but I disagree that the schools you mention are good bets. These schools have become incredibly selective lately. They would be big reaches for a 1200 SAT, unless the kid was a legacy, a star athlete, a URM, or a very very unique kid (like a banjo-playing pilot from alaska!)</p>
<p>Have a look at the Kenyon, NYU, Wesleyan, or G’Town forums to see who was NOT admitted to these schools, and take a look at their stats. Most of these schools have a <em>median</em> SAT of 1375-1400. So a 1200 is quite low for these schools. To consider a school a match, you’d want your kid’s SAT to be in the upper 25% of admitted kids, and you further would want a school taking over 40% of applicants.</p>
<p>I only point this out because it shocked me, too, when I realized how competitive things had become-- and I think it is important to be really realistic in building a list.</p>
<p>This is the first time I’ve had to disagree with Carolyn…who I think is wonderfully informed. The SUNY schools she mentioned would be hard for the OP’s D to get into.They are very formula driven.Genesceo especially is now one of the highest ranked of the SUNY’s…in fact they advertise themselves as the SUNY “Honors” college. SUNY’s are also notoriously nearly all New Yorkers,sprinkling of foreign students.Don’t know how OOS kids would feel there and honestly whether it would be worth paying OOS prices for the level of education there.</p>
<p>Peacenik-By average, I meant my daughter is an average student-sometimes As, sometimes Bs, sometimes Cs–all put together she has a 3.4 GPA. Maybe 3.4 is above average, but it is beneath her potential. Once you start looking at selective colleges, you need to view your kid from the admissions committee perspective. In that view, my daughter’s stats won’t stand out, thus my description of “average”. If we apply to Vermont public colleges, suddenly she’s well above average. So, I’m not discounting my D’s achievements, I’m trying to get her into the best school she’s qualified for, and that takes some realistic sizing up of her vs. the competition. </p>
<p>btw-Kids don’t get any advantage in college admissions because their parents sent them to a boarding school. All you need to do to get into boarding school is to write a check.</p>
<p>Can anyone give me a formula to determine if a school is a reach, a match, or a safety? Is there a magic mix of SAT, GPA, coursework, % of admits? For example, should the applicants SATs be ABOVE the middle range for the school to be a safety?</p>
<p>Another question-if your kid is VERY interested in a school, is it kosher to contact admissions PRIOR to submitting an application to 1. share her transcript, and 2. ask what her prospect are, and 3. what she can do NOW to increase chance of admission?</p>
<p>Someone else may have a different formula, but the one we used was - acceptance rate above 50% and student’s stats 75%ile or above. I would add no glaring problems, like a suspension, that might complicate matters.</p>
<p>I am a very strong advocate of an early application to a rolling admission school, preferably one that will give you a response before the first selective school deadline (Dec 15). That makes matters much easier. The possibility of playing a sport will comlicate matters greatly, but may get her admitted to a more selective school - pursue the sports angle early with her coach, GC and thru research.</p>
<p>As to your other question - I don’t know. She may want to E-mail coaches (check what the rules are, I don’t know), even preparing a little resume, to see who might be interested - again there are others here who know much more about sports admits than I do.
If there is one school she is interested in, SHE could call this summer or E-mail the adcom for her area, and try to develop a relationship and find out what she can do to improve her chances.</p>
<p>cangel–Yes, I know SHE should make these contacts! I realized it once I hit send…translation for me: I need to MAKE her contact these people!</p>
<p>As far as sports go, crew is an unusual sport in that kids can join a varsity team without having any HS experience in rowing. Not enough HSs have it as a sport. I think this one is up to my daughter. If she really wants to row in college, she’d need to do some great writing about her experience on the water- kayaking, canoing, rafting- and her desire to row in order to convince a coach that she’d be a good prospect. (maybe sending her to a rowing summer school program for novices if such a thing exists would be an option.)</p>
<p>I’ll let the more experienced posters chime in, but here’s how we are approaching things (more or less) – I think I’m probably too compulsive about it 
.</p>
<p>Super Safety: Above the 75% SAT/ACT score, and above the 75% GPA.</p>
<p>Safety: Above the 75% SAT/ACT score and at or above the average GPA OR vice versa (i.e. above the 75% GPA and at or above the average SAT/ACT).</p>
<p>Safety/Target: Generally around the average for SAT or GPA, and well above average for the other (but not above the 75% mark) </p>
<p>Target: At or above both the average GPA and SAT/ACT (or at least generally close to it, i.e. slightly higher SAT could offset slightly lower GPA, etc.</p>
<p>Target/Reach: Under the average for both GPA and SAT/ACT, but not way under – EC’s, recs, other “hooks” (though I don’t like that phrase) etc. could really become important . </p>
<p>Reach: Good bit Under the average for both GPA and SAT/ACT but still above the 25% level. </p>
<p>Prayer: Under the 25% level for both GPA and SAT/ACT. “Hooks” are pretty much the only way to get accepted at this level (recruited athlete, national-level accomplishments, etc.)</p>
<p>WITH THE FOLLOWING CAVEATS: If a school has acceptance rate of 30% or below, I’m considering it a reach even if it would otherwise fall into the safety or target area. Just like to be conservative. To be honest, this isn’t really an issues. The schools that have 30% and below acceptance rates would be a reach for S in any event. </p>
<p>All of the above assumes that S will take a challenging courseload, but probably not the absolutely most challenging he could – in his case, that probably means 5-6 AP classes/exams.</p>
<p>I like to think that I’m being fairly conservative.</p>
<p>
. That would be “BINGO”. ;)</p>
<p>Thank you iderochi and curmdgeon. I wish they’d print this in the books! My D is seriously considering applying ED if she find the “perfect” school which is also a “target/match”. We’ll tour and interview at several other targets and a target/reach in case we need “Plan B”. Plan B would entail applying to one safety, several targets, and one target/reach. She really doesn’t have any interest in applying to ANY reach schools, and I can’t say I blame her.</p>
<p>Some of the high acheivers flood the ivies, very selective LACs, and selective LACs with loads of applications. Many of them don’t even bother to visit the selectives, but their stats are so high they get admitted. I can’t help but think that my D, if applying ED, would look pretty good to a selective LAC as compared with these “flooders”. The admissions committees must realize their school serves as a a safety with little chance of signing the “flooder”. (I’m creating my own language today!)</p>
<p>BaseballMom…hey, I live in Vermont too and you are one of the first moms on here I have ever seen who also lives in VT! You got a lot of helpful advice on here. Iderochi already answered your question on reach/match/safety (and all things in between). I join others in saying your D is not average but is above average. Other posters have suggested great colleges for your D to look into. I wish I knew more of her college criteria as that helps focus the list. I don’t agree with the poster who mentioned NYU, Georgetown, or Wesleyan…they would be far reaches for your daughter. But there are a slew of colleges in her range that are great colleges. </p>
<p>Off the top of my head without knowing more about your daughter…Skidmore, Goucher, James Madison, Wheaton (MA), Dickinson, Muhlenberg, Lehigh, Lafayette, Villanova, Clark, Fairfield, Rollins, Earlham, St. Mary’s College of MD, Mary Washington College , Guilford College, Providence College, College of Wooster, Franklin and Marshall, and if your D is willing to look at an all girls school…she is not out of the running at Mt. Holyoke or even Smith. I know a girl from our HS at Smith who was involved in singing and theater in high school but is now on Crew at Smith! Never had done it in her life before Smith. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>baseballmom,</p>
<p>The crew aspect would be helped by your D attending a good rowing program this summer. Jump on it. Find one staffed by a college coach or past champs from the region you care about if possible-- that person could help your D with recs to those coaches that verify her athleticism and ability.</p>
<p>In my experience, very interested coaches <em>did</em> ask for my D’s transcript prior to the app being sent. (Thus it might be smart to request several copies of the transcript from your GC before school is out for summer.) </p>
<p>Recruitment is quite different school to school. There is a book, I think it’s called called “Playing the Game” that many parents have cited as helpful in understanding recruitment. Expect many or even <em>all</em> the coaches to wax enthusiastic. DO NOT BE SWEPT OFF YOUR FEET. They are keeping their options open. </p>
<p>I started a thread on this topic with lots of good advice from parents of recruited athletes: it’s title-- “Is enthusiastic coach call = Likely Letter?” Go have a look at it.</p>
<p>I think ED is critical for an athlete. Coaches will not fight the same way for an athlete who is not committed to attend the school. If you can, find an ED1 and and ED2 school as well as some EA’s or rollings. Then round out with some RDs if you need them. We did this; she was rejected ED1 but accepted ED2 at a reach as well as at 3 EA match/safeties. </p>
<p>Bear in mind that the schools that most “need” women’s crew are the schools that (a) care a lot about crew and are trying to improve their standings – i.e. ranked regionally but maybe not nationally or (b) schools that have HUGE men’s programs and rely on crew to generate large numbers of women athletes for Title 9 purposes. Do your research. </p>
<p>If I were in your position, I would start with D3 crew schools with regional rankings, <em>not</em> the top national teams, and then see which of them appealed to my D & which were the academic level that is appropriate. Then start contacting coaches and see who responds…</p>
<p>Lot of good advice here. I don’t think your D is an “average” kid. After looking at the stats for kids at her boarding school and where they ended up at college, you will get a better idea of where she might be in terms of target colleges. I would, however, keep in mind that some schools where she might look like a good match, are female heavy with many candidates like her. Try to find schools that are looking for kids with her interests instead of being inundated with them. I know that males get extra consideration at schools like Sarah Lawrence, Bennington, Skidmore, Vassar, Wheaton, Goucher, and that does skew the stats. The crew is an excellent venue to explore and I think SBmom has great info for that.</p>
<p>As for the SUNYs, I don’t think that your D is out of the ball park for them, even Geneseo. For whatever reason, the SUNYs are very receptive to private school students and do take their curriculums into account when looking at the gpas, and your D is within the 50% middle ground of that school. However, the poster is correct is saying that there may be a comfort factor issue in going to a SUNY as they tend to be more than 95% New Yorkers. They do welcome out of staters, and the tuition differential is probably not that much more than the Vermont state school tuition, but keep in mind that she will be on of the very few out of staters in a SUNY. That was what made my son hesitate at Binghamton.</p>
<p>My D is looking more to suburban schools at this point, but these lists of schools are so varied and so many of them I would only have discovered if the Fiske Guide fell to the floor and opened! What a font of FABULOUS information on this site. I have quite a library of college reference books, but this person-to-person insight is invaluable. Thank you all so much!</p>
<p>D is taking her AP English exam this morning and SATs next Saturday, so I’ll wait to give her this big list. </p>
<p>Just curious-have any of your kids visited a few schools and then latched right on to one? AND, it was the RIGHT one? I feel as if we need to visit 20 schools to do the job right, yet what if she likes the 3rd one we visit because it just feels right?</p>
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<p>You’ll get as many takes on this subject as there are posters! And almost as many opinions as on the “Worthless Ivy League” thread LOL!
Anyway, search on college visits - there are some long threads about instant love vs “Don’t even stop the car!” - that’s a great one when you have driven 1000 miles to get there.
I think every student should at least look at a medium/large and a small school - location (Urban vs rural) will matter greatly to some students, but I think most don’t really care, as long as the atmosphere is not too drastically different from what they are used to or they aren’t looking for a change. But you know your child best - how has the boarding school adjustment gone? Does she have strong preconceived notions (does she want to get back to civilization for example)? Will she be OK with visiting after acceptance RD? Is she a second guesser or extremely decisive? Will she be prone to changing her mind after ED?
Another issue is visiting can become counterproductive. If she likes the 3rd school and it is a target/safety, you may want to visit one more dramatically different school JIC, maybe one more similar in selectivity to broaden her options, and call it quits. If you are trying to play a geography card (which can be very powerful, especially in ED, just ask my daughter), then you may have to travel far, and cram some similar schools into a tight schedule - they all start to run together, and the kid begins to turn off.</p>
<p>We tried to pare down the list as much as possible beforethe trip was planned, but we still missed some good choices out of sheer exhaustion. If she is willing to consider sight unseen, some schools that are very similar to schools she has visited, it will make visiting much easier. Then she can make a special overnight in the fall to ED possibilities.</p>
<p>Add one more to the list: St. Mary’s College in Maryland has a beautiful water front location with lots of sailing activities and a crew team. It’s a public liberal arts school and truly a “hidden gem.” Your daughter would have a shot there, even though she’s a little below their average stats.</p>
<p>If there’s any chance your daughter would consider an all-female school, Mills College in California also has a crew team. Santa Clara U also in California does as well.</p>