<p>Just because I have NEVER beaten Carolyn to the punch before, I want to go on record that I already suggested St. Mary’s (Post #2) :)</p>
<p>St. Mary’s is intriguing. They sent a brochure to the house following the PSAT. Is this school right in Baltimore? Is the area surrounding campus dangerous? Here’s my determination of dangerous: Is it generally safe for her to leave campus and walk by herself to a store at 9:00 p.m. on a weeknight? Is it generally safe for her to be out walking in the city/town with a girlfriend at midnight on a Saturday?</p>
<p>Ideorochi,
I like to go a little beyond comparing stats when considering whether a school is a safety, match or reach. The problem with just comparing a child’s stats to the medians is that there are so many other factors that play into the admissions decision besides numbers. Plus, the numbers for any given school tend to shift a bit each year, especially at the more selective schools or schools that are experiencing a burst of popularity.</p>
<p>So, I like to look at a few other things as well before I classify a school as a good bet, likely, or long shot (I prefer these terms to safety, match, and reach).</p>
<p>(1) What is the over-riding admissions need at the school? What are the “tipping points” that turn a so-so bet into a likely? Are they looking to boost geographic diversity? Are they looking for more “full pay” students? Are they looking to boost their test scores? Do they have a certain “intangible” that they are looking for (i.e., some schools really emphasize service and they will often push a kid with mid-range stats into the accept pile if he shows dedication to that). You can get a sense of this by visiting the web site, reading the schools mission statement, seeing what they use to describe this years incoming class (i.e., do they just list numbers or do they brag about the number of artists and musicians). Visiting and talking to admissions (don’t just ask about stats - ask about what they like to see on the application) Then, compare your child with a CLEAR EYE to what the school is looking for and evaluate his/her chances as if the stats didn’t matter. </p>
<p>(2) Overall acceptance rates. If you are going to rely strictly on stats, it is important to consider the acceptance rate as well before categorizing any school as a safety. To me, any school that accepts less than 30% of applicants should NOT be considered a safety for anyone, no matter how good their stats. I like to see safeties up closer to a 50% admit rate or higher. </p>
<p>So basically, I like to use a sliding rule approach, based on these three factors — here are some examples (each case will obviously vary):</p>
<p>Good bets:</p>
<p>Stats in the upper 70% or above of last year’s accepted class PLUS at least one “tipping point” (i.e. geographic diversity, special talent wanted by the school, etc.) plus acceptance rate of close to or above 50% — good bet</p>
<p>Stats at or above 50% of last year’s accepted class PLUS at least two “tipping points”, plus acceptance rate of higher than 60% - good bet.</p>
<p>Stats significantly above 75% of last year’s class plus acceptance rate of above 50% — good bet.</p>
<p>Likelies</p>
<p>Stats at or above top 70% of last year’s accepted class plus accepted rate of above 60% but no real tipping point — likely match</p>
<p>Stats in the 25-50% range of last year’s accepted class plus one to two tipping points plus acceptance rate above 60% — likely match</p>
<p>Stats in top 70% plus range, no tipping points, close to 50% acceptance rate - match</p>
<p>Stats between 25- 50% range, no tipping points, acceptance rate above 75%, match</p>
<p>Lottery schools (reaches)</p>
<p>Stats below 50% range, no tipping point, 50% or less acceptance rate - should be considered a reach</p>
<p>Stats towards top of stats range, no outstanding/unusual tipping point (VERY important - the most selective schools get lots of kids with “typical” tipping points) 30% or less acceptance, reach</p>
<p>Stats below 25%, no tipping point, any acceptance rate below 65% -
reach.</p>
<p>Baseballmom, No, St. Mary’s is about an hour and a half south of Baltimore in a beautiful suburban/rural area. Very peaceful and safe.
They have one of the prettiest campuses I’ve seen anywhere. We live in California and my son (who’s only a freshman in h.s.) did one of Johns Hopkins CTY programs there last year — he would love to go back for college!</p>
<p>Iderochi - LOL! You did beat me to the punch. :)</p>
<p>Cathymee, Yes, you’re right, the SUNY’s are numbers driven. But I didn’t call them safety schools, just said they would be worth considering. While I mentioned Geneseo as one specific example, I suggested "some of the SUNY’s, not all of them.</p>
<p>Indeed, SUNY Geneseo would probably be a realistic reach for the OP’s daughter - they look for kids in the B+ range with SATs of 1200 and above, so she falls within range.Plus, the SUNY’s like to get out of state students, and Geneseo shows some signs of actively recruiting them. They do not hold out of state students to higher standards than in state applicants. So, while it wouldn’t be a safety, I’d call SUNY Geneseo and some of the other SUNY schools a realistic reach worth looking at. She would not be out of the running there. At some of the other SUNY’s, she would be a solid match.</p>
<p>Carolyn – yeah, but you “schooled” me on my classifications, and I would like to thank you – I had sort of developed all of that stuff in an ad hoc way, and your comments are very much appreciated.</p>
<p>No problem Iderochi. Actually, I owe the idea to include admissions rates to Jamimom and the idea of tipping points to people like Interesteddad and TheDad. One other thing that I like to throw in the mix is how the student’s h.s. curriculum compares with the minimum requirements of each school - someone with 4 years of math, science, social studies and language is going to have an easier time of it than someone who has “gaps” in any of those core classes, thus making some “reach schools” more “match like.” All of this has seemed to hold up fairly well when I try to “guess” which schools kids here have a shot at, although I am sometimes overly cautious with the lottery schools.</p>
<p>What I have noticed is that if you pick your schools to “fit” what you have to offer, it seems like you end up with more choices come April. Whereas if you pick the schools then try to squeeze yourself into what they’re looking for, results tend to be not as good.</p>
<p>ok, Carolyn, fess up! If you are not a GC or a paid college counselor, you should win some kind of supermom award!</p>
<p>I had St. Mary’s in my post and had missed it in the posts by you guys…must be similar minds that think alike. The “on the water” part was a factor as to why I had listed it too ;-). </p>
<p>I agree with Carolyn that you can’t just go by stats but must factor in admit rates when classifying schools into reach, match, safety. </p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>What a great statement!</p>
<p>carolyn - I agree with my-3-sons. That statement of yours puts it all into perspective. It points to exactly the reason kids should pursue their true interests, instead of searching for EC’s that might look good to schools. Great way to put it. Thank you (once again !)</p>
<p>Carolyn – it appears to me that the whole “tipping point” thing can be the most difficult part of the process. Do you agree? I mean, despite all of your good suggestions, I think it can be very difficult to get a good feel about the admissions needs of a school from the website, or even from discussions with the admissions counselors. In the case of my S, for example – his “outside the classroom” life consists of baseball (which he lives and breathes, but he still can’t make the HS team), volunteer firefighting, and various school club activities. I’m not sure that any school’s information would really jump out at me and say “hey! we love volunteer firefighters!” :)</p>
<p>I am so glad to read about “average” kids. I put a post on one of the other CC boards about my son, and got some mixed responses. Some good advice, but some other advice basically saying that he’s not college ready and should do a Community College and work, and that the reason colleges don’t take kids who don’t meet the “profile” is because they wouldn’t be able to do the work anyway.</p>
<p>My kid has superior verbal skills (720 in the practice New SAT – he’s taking the real thing tomorrow), but his Math is just OK, and his Math and Science grades, now that he’s in PReCalc and accelerated college prep Checmisry, are the pits. He does get somewhat unmotivated if it’s a subject he doesn’t like or that he struggles with. </p>
<p>The admissions folks we’ve heard from have said that GPAs are more important than SATs, and that they barely look at SATs now, so I figured that even if he hits over 750 on the verbal, it won’t help his chances anywhere because his GPA is hovering around a 3.2. I almost hope his math SAT will be lousy so at least it will look as if he has no math aptitude (he doesn’t really), and that would explain his marks, rather than that he’s a slacker.</p>
<p>We are doing peer tutoring in Chemistry and that has helped him to get to passing there, and are starting with Math (he was doing fine for 2 semesters and then dropped down).</p>
<p>His interest is Political Science. He loved presentation by Brandeis admissions officer, but doesn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting in. Some statistics show that even middle-of-the road places like Wheaton MA (which he liked) or Providence (which we didn’t much care for, anyway) won’t take him. Even the admissions officer from UMass Amherst said that they are now extremely selective, especially about low GPAs. Any suggestions?</p>
<p>Also, money is an issue. We probably won’t get any financial aid because it looks on paper as if we can afford it, and he doesn’t have a prayer of getting any merit aid. However, we have considerable debt from a time when my spouse was unemployed 2 years ago, although he’s making good money now.</p>
<p>ParentRobert - first, there are many wonderful schools that would be happy to have your son go there. Perhaps Lake Forest in Lake Forest, IL. I know one of D’s friends who studies when he likes a subject and doesn’t when he doesn’t, was admitted - he is bright but his GPA was low. SAT’s not stellar, either, low math, good verbal. As to aid, fill out the FAFSA anyway - you never know. Check out schools that use the CSS profile - it takes debt into account. And depending on whether you would consider this, maybe 2 years at a JrC or CC, and get those math classes out of the way and show what he can do! Then, transfer.</p>
<p>ParentRobert: There are plenty of schools for a kid with a 3.2 GPA. That is a B/B+ average and really not bad. And, depending upon which schools you look at, merit aid is not out of the question. Look at St Joseph’s in Philadelphia. Their merit aid is formula driven, and he may qualify for 7-8K/year. I have heard that Assumption College in Worcester, MA and University of Hartford are also generous with merit aid for what we are calling average students.<br>
Many schools have an overabundance of girls these days and are looking for boys - if you target some of these schools it could tip things in your son’s favor. Choosing schools outside of your geographic area can also help give you an edge in the admissions process.
Do not use Providence College as a benchmark. PC has gotten EXTREMELY difficult in recent years. I know in the New England area many kids use PC as an alternative to Boston College, and Providence now gets tons of very qualified applicants with very high SATs/GPA.<br>
UMass Amherst is not out of the question with a 3.2, especially if you stay away from the highly competitive majors (computer science is one, but it doesn’t sound like your son would be interested in that). UMass-Lowell and UMass-Dartmouth would be good options as well. Maybe consider UNH, UVM, and URI?</p>
<p>parentyny - I am aware of a kid who was waitlisted at Wheaton, Fairfield, St. Michael’s with a 2.8 GPA and 1200+ SATs. So I would be more optimistic than you are at such schools with your S’s stats. Can you count on the school for a good GC letter and good teacher recs? The “holistic” feel of your S’s app can really work in his favor, I’m thinking.</p>
<p>I was also going to suggst UNH. Agree re giving him the geographic and male/female ratio advantages. What area do you live in (guessing New England) and what areas is he considering? Santa Clara U. in Ca. really wants males and could work for that GPA (carolyn-comment?)</p>
<p>Good advice from scma about looking for schools that want boys. Maybe Goucher? </p>
<p>The Colleges That Change Lives ought to be a great starting place for your hunt. Most of these schools take kids in you kid’s GPA range.</p>
<p>You may want to look into Wells College in NY. A former women’s college, it has good academics and an exchange program with Cornell University such that Wells’ students can take almost any course offered at Cornell. Further, they are one of the most reasonably priced private colleges in the country. Their, average GPA is 3.5, and average SAT is 1110. their Princeton Review Academic Rating is 95, on a scale of 60 99, right up there with the so-called top tier colleges.</p>
<p>great suggestion, Idad. I like the info they have sent D, and they do have an outstanding sticker price at Wells and what seems to be a great reputation, plus some merit aid which is nice. If D was a he…</p>