What are the Lifetime Advantages of Attending Top Colleges

Alumother · May 18, 2006, 2:59pm

Blossom -

Where on earth do you get the idea that I am prestige conscious? Please define the term. I am only trying to convey my actual life experience, and then get everyone to communicate in a way that is not statistically absurd.

I drive a 13 year old Previa. As my son says, “Previa. Doesn’t get much cooler.” I had some Chanel sunglasses, as I say I went to the dark side, but I lost them. I will gladly acknowledge that of the two most intelligent men I have ever met, one went to Harvard and one went to UCSanta Cruz back in the day when anyone could go there. I could care less for someone’s prestigious anything. I choose my friends in life based on who is loyal and who is good for a laugh. With any luck they are the same people.

And, to show your own assumption set, my Dad didn’t teach at an Ivy. He was at Stanford his entire career.

I am amazed at the number of personal affronts zinging around on this thread. I am being obnoxious, as I said, trying to get kicked off and put out of my misery. But I would not stoop to personal and directed insults. Maybe that’s my problem. I will see if I can come up with some comments directly focused on the personal flaws of the other posters here.

I have only condemned the logic. It is possible you are all very good people. But I just can’t ignore wilfully obtuse statements that directly and maliciously on occasion contradict my lived experience.

golferfirst · May 18, 2006, 3:01pm

Alumother:

It might be. But, then again, people choose colleges for a variety of reasons - not all who choose Princeton do so for academic reasons.

I have no problem admitting that the Emporer has no clothes - if he, in fact, has none.

I don’t deny that there are differences in intellectual capacity. However, I also refuse to deny that there are differences in social and economic profiles of students. And, unlike you, I am willing to admit that often, the latter is equally or more important to selection committees admitting students and families making acceptances.

I’ve worked with brilliant individuals from both elite and non-elite colleges. And, believe it or not - with a couple who never attended college.

You may have been blessed with a marvelous “academic” education - but you certainly missed a few life lessons along the way.

marite · May 18, 2006, 3:02pm

Are Columbia profs so poorly paid they can’t afford to send their own kids there? Or is it that the kids do not want to attend the college where dear old dad or mom is teaching? There was an article in the NYT just a few days ago about students taking their own parent’s class! Must be attending the same school after all.
Having talked to some academic friends of mine, all located in the Boston area, here are some schools their kids are attending:
Harvard
MIT
Yale,
Princeton
Brown
Chicago,
Amherst
Stanford
Reed
Caltech
Columbia

Alumother · May 18, 2006, 3:03pm

And golfer, my comments above to Blossom apply to you too. However, having been brought up with “polish” I have to work really hard at generating insults. Perhaps that will be my missed life lesson?

dstark · May 18, 2006, 3:06pm

“I am only trying to convey my actual life experience, and then get everyone to communicate in a way that is not statistically absurd.”

Alumother, what about our life experiences? They are not the same as yours.

sybbie719 · May 18, 2006, 3:09pm

Sakky,

You are right.

This is a BIG point in the differences between public and “elite” universities, especially the fact that the “elite’ schools will bend over backwards to make sure you graduate. You are right, some may graduate with a “C” average but they will graduate none the less (D even mentioned that). In addition, in my experience having attended both public and 'elite” universities there is a lot of handholding and support given to students at elite, private schools, that just does not happen in public universities.

I remember as an undergrad at Baruch (CUNY) both of my parents passed in less than a year of each other. My mother passed during winter break, I just took a leave of absence spring break to get myself together. Went back to school the fall term and the saturday before midterms, my father passed. I was a mess. Called the professor, who told me , she was sorry for my loss, but she did not give make-up exams if I did not come in I would have a “0” going into finals. Took her came in for her midterm, remembering bf had to drive me to school and wait for me because I was in no shape to travel. Got an A- in her class, Cs, D’s and an F in everything else. got placed on academic probation, no one wanted to hear my tale of woe. After taking another leave, came back, pulled my grades up explained my situation in my personal statement , got accepted to Cornell, no problems went got a masters, life was good. Explained my situation again for my dismal grades sophmore year in my personal statement, had a masters under the belt again, no problem, got accepted to NYU for both their masters and their Phd program but got rejected by Queens College- CUNY (only want the numbers not the story behind them).

D is a sophmore at Dartmouth, her great grandmother passed during midterms winter term, contacted her dean who contacted all of her professors all midterms where put on hold until she felt up to taking them. End of winter term, D got admitted by student health being sick, they contacted the Dean, again, no problem, got extensions on her final papers, got to arrange to take her finals when she got back spring term. D knows people who got expelled from Dartmouth some at beginning of their freshman year, and have now come back to school with open arms.

D of one of my friends attends a top LAC. Was diagnosed with ADHD and has a history of depression. Had horrible drug interaction with her meds and as a result failed out the end of fall term. Explained it all to the deans, who suggested the the student take a medical leave of absence, they will welcome her back with open arms in fall 06.

marite · May 18, 2006, 3:16pm

I like this. And that was the criterion according to which my S chose his school.

SBmom · May 18, 2006, 3:18pm

Gee, here’shoping, I am learning about the other mindset.

I understand why people have been objecting to some of the broad generalizations made on this thread-- particularly NSMs allegations about EC participation. I also understand wanting to make sure it is correctly pointed out that top kids exist at all sorts of less-elite schools and that they go on to do very well, or that many top kids are pretty much “school proof” and dont need an elite school. It is also good to mention the importance of judging individuals on merits. All this is true. BTW-- I reviewed all my posts on this thread and defy anyone to point out one where these concurrent and relevant views were not respected and recognized by me.

But right now I see this mindset: people who, in their righteous zeal to defend the top kids at mid-tiers, are more than willing to under-estimate the entire population of kids who attend elite schools as a counterweight. Those who invoke personal experiences in dissing Ivy slackers, but won’t respect personal experience as a reasonable basis for answering the thread’s title question.

I also see a real bitterness and resentment that someone who posts here would enjoy a little bit of boost JUST from the name of the college they attended-- just because that college had a great reputation for admitting and graduating bright kids.

Yet, it’s okay for curmudgeon to say that or think it-- so long as he or his D didn’t DO it. Hmmm.

Okay: MY question-- where do you guys draw the line?

Why then pay for a public honors college, when a smart kid can do just as well at a lower tier public for less? Why then pay for the low tier public when a kid can do just as well at a CC? (Think of the diversity bonanza there!) But wait, why go to the CC when you can go to the University of Phoenix online? Why bother with an online degree when you can just go to the library and read a bunch of books and learn? Why bother going to the library when you can just zoom around town with insightful, erudite cabbies? My goodness, none of it will even matter when you get out there in the working world and just Get Cracking!

And, Gee, why even HAVE a degree or resume when you apply for a job-- you can be brilliant and effective even if you have no education because you’re JUST AS SMART. If they want that piece of paper they are just classifying you by an elitist system that is unfair to the brilliant, edgy, contemplative kid who didn’t leave his house for 25 years!

On this thread I see a mindset that does not want to accept the reality that exceptions often prove rules. I see a mindset that has to denigrate people from elites because a minority of those kids are rude, dumb, or unmotivated-- yet one that freaks out about a resume-screening-level ding on a lower tier State school because some a minority of those kids are really F-ing smart.

I see a mindset of fingers in ears going lalalalalala.

I am wondering why anyone who doesn’t want to know about, or share, ideas about advantages of top schools even opened this thread? I am wondering why anyone who isn’t all about their kid going to the best possible school, that fits them, and can be afforded is even on CC?

hereshoping · May 18, 2006, 3:21pm

I’ve noticed most people on this board are not necessarily that interested in other people’s experiences, unless, of course, that experience resulted in their matriculating at an Ivy or other elite school.

It seems that every time I make a comment, people point out that I am making a generalization. Didn’t I just read Alumother make numerous generalizations, on average, that is? Generalizations abound here all the time. Take a moment for ONE other viewpoint, please, for what it’s worth.

I was just making the point that many of these posts are insulting to many people. It is the concept of insulting that I was getting at. Not that one necessarily can get an equal education anywhere. Of course that is absurd, and no one has argued that.

And anyone has the right to check in here. No one blasted all the Ivy proponents off of this thread, but the minute someone puts forward an different view, they are told, in so many words, to blow off.

I suppose this is what is called intellectual curiosity?

Packers1 · May 18, 2006, 3:22pm

t is interesting that e are putting so much effort into debating the relative merits of selection criteria and selectivity, as well as average academic results but in the end, do those factors make a significant lifetime difference? In the vast majority of jobs I will say that they don’t.
There are only a small number of jobs where what you learn in college actually gets applied in your job (and that makes the huge assumption that you stay in the same field your entire career). More important are the intangibles that you either are born with (creativity) or that you learn in school outside of class: leadership, teaming, work ethic…

That is where any school that is a good fit is ‘best’ for a particular student.

Being able to say you graduated from an elite school isn’t going to get you a pass from having to put together the PowerPoint that is needed in the morning,and we don’t have time to debate the content; just buckle down with the rest of the team and get it done.

dstark · May 18, 2006, 3:29pm

best possible school, that fits them, and can be afforded

One person’s best school isn’t another person’s best school.

When somebody says his/her best school is better than your best school which is how the thread started out, of course **** is going to fly.

TheGFG · May 18, 2006, 3:32pm

Blossom: the shoemaker’s son has no shoes.

marite · May 18, 2006, 3:37pm

I agree completely. That is why S chose the school that fit him as he is now.Students are not blank slates upon which colleges spread their education. If, whenever he is in a job, S can’t put the PowerPoint together when it’s needed, that will be HIS shortcoming, not the school’s, and HIS downfall.

Packers1 · May 18, 2006, 3:42pm

dstar,
Good point. 
If the original post had specified just which schools we should consider to be “Top Colleges” then we could really rip into people (JK LOL!).

Folks, everyone is getting way to serious about this… There is no true answer to the original question and all everyone is doing now is just trying to justify their position/ choices.

I am off of this thread. There is nothing more to be added to this discussion.

emeraldkity4 · May 18, 2006, 3:43pm

What are the Lifetime Advantages of Attending Top Colleges

Isn’t it to find potential inlaws that have homes in the Hamptons?

( actually- I don’t even know where the Hamptons * are*- but I thought the whole point for some families is so that the student will maximize “connections” and isn’t marrying “up” critical to that?)

dmd77 · May 18, 2006, 3:45pm

“I am wondering why anyone who doesn’t want to know about, or share, ideas about advantages of top schools even opened this thread?” asks SBMom.

Well, my assumption from the beginning has been that people want to hear that going to an elite school does NOT confer any advantage over a state university (at 1/4 the price).

The fact is that graduates of elite universities are disproportionately represented in our highest levels of government and in our biggest businesses. Clearly, there are advantages in the names, if not in the actual education.

The one place where I see a state college being an advantage is in education, where most educators come from the education college of the state university and are scared of the “snobbishness” of the elite colleges–and where graduates of the elite colleges often don’t meet the state’s standards for teachers (because the courses have the wrong names).

SBmom · May 18, 2006, 3:49pm

Well, I recall asking for posters to offer up more anecdotes about how their less-elite schools conferred their own lifetime advantages. I do not recall debating anyone that their personal view of a “top” place was incorrect.

But do we all agree about the University of Phoenix Online?

mathmom · May 18, 2006, 3:52pm

"
Isn’t it to find potential inlaws that have homes in the Hamptons?"

Darn it! I blew it.

Or was that why dh married me? ;-)

SBmom · May 18, 2006, 3:53pm

EK, that was a LOL.

Blossom, your list of faculty kids’ schools looks fairly elite to me. Then again, my kid turned down the best-known public school in our state for a small LAC nobody here has ever heard of.

originaloog · May 18, 2006, 3:58pm

Would y’all reread the last several pages of posts? It aint pretty!

What are the Lifetime Advantages of Attending Top Colleges

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