What are the Lifetime Advantages of Attending Top Colleges

Parents Forum
981

<p>Joyce: Dear David – Yep, it is great to be homeschooling…and, of course, it never ends. Independent/home learners are never restricted by a school-based curriculum and instead can and do recognize the value of all kinds of life-long learning. I see my own five homeschooled ‘kids’ (now ranging in age between 28 and 42) continuing and broadening their learning curves with as much energy and focus as ever before – constantly reading, gathering, and sharing new skills. They love the learning experience, which is why most of them work on the cutting-edge of technology, where so much is new!</p>

<p>I was so moved by your essay. It seems that for both of us, the critical self-determining moments of our teen years were spent alone, when we stepped off the home/school/friends continuum to spend time all by ourselves with disembodied ‘peers/mentors’ (alive in our books) whom we sought out, craved, never met though we felt they knew our hearts and minds. Within my secret/library life, I somehow felt like a whole person, not just a bleeding heart and a questioning mind trapped in a developing teen body. At the library, reading – or even stopping off at my favorite little restaurant for a cup of hot chocolate and a slice of my favorite lemon pie – I was ME, not my parents’ daughter, not a member of our church, not a Hall High School student, not even a displaced Canadian living in Hartford, Connecticut. Just ME, exploring…</p>

<p>I wonder how kids get to have such Gotham Book Mart/West Hartford Library experiences today? Kids’ lives seem so much more circumscribed these – our society is so fearful, so apprehensive! At age 8, I would go to the local drug store alone often, to pick up a prescription, buy my father’s cigarettes or my mother’s magazine. Of course, the purchase of the cigarettes wouldn’t even be legal these days. But beyond that, if I see an eight-year-old girl wandering alone in a store, I now instinctively look for the parent she is with. We hardly ever allow kids to travel around alone in a major city by themselves as you did, or even to go to the library and walk home in the dark, alone on a wintry night. How much freedom of mind kids have lost! No wonder they are so deeply influenced these days by the ‘values’ of their age-graded ‘peers’. </p>

<p>Most homes need two incomes to survive, or so it is believed by many. Consequently, many babies, toddlers, and young children are in group childcare situations – only the financially comfortable, affluent family can chose to have an in-home nanny for their child/children. And even those that could chose to have a personal/private care giver for their child (other than parent) often choose instead to put them in daycare because of the added “stimulation” – the focus being on developing ‘social skills’ with a group of peers, and providing ‘educational enrichment/pre-school readiness”. (!!!) Children rarely get time to cruise and just explore around their own private places. There is no time to find those sacred secret spaces. Can six-year-olds take their tricycle and ride around the block in the summer evening, while parents are out watering their lawns . . . stopping in at friends’ yards, but making it home before dark? Can thirteen-year-olds still hike alone up to the reservoir and sit in the woods, reading? Well, maybe, yes they can….now they carry cell phones! </p>

<p>Parents and ‘experts’ are so involved in how, when, and why children learn and play! Kids don’t just go out with a bunch of mixed age/gender kids on the block and play ball, any kind of ball. Now they must belong to a league, with a coach, scheduled games, uniforms, and parents to drive them and cheer them on. Hmm…how can kids discover their true interests and abilities – be it tap dancing or pitching – and what if it’s fly fishing, or sewing clothes for dolls? Kids have so little time or privacy to explore how to do things, to make ‘mistakes’, or to discover their own style. Nowadays, ‘Baby Einstein’ products teach the child who can barely sit up how to differentiate shapes and colors – relieving the pressured working Mom to start the dinner/bath/bedtime routine and begin to pack up juniors things for tomorrow’s 7:15 a.m. departure.</p>

<p>I think parents have over-stepped their bounds and infringe much too much on their children’s mental and physical ‘secret spaces, hidden places’. Privacy seems to exist only in a technological cyberworld – TV and DVDs giving way to video games and the Internet. Perhaps those private spaces occur only in cyberspace now, not in ‘real time’ or place? </p>

<p>So here’s a little story that will disturb your slumbers I think, or at least it did mine! Last weekend, we decided my grandson Kai (age 16 months) might enjoy getting into some fingerpaints – the color, the texture, the expanse of the paper! The son of an artist and Rhode Island School of Design graduate (if that matters), Kai clearly is interested in and can point out or name many colors, and he has been very interested in representational visual images for a very long time, noticing billboards and murals, as well as relishing his many shelves of board books. So Kai and I hastened off to a big shopping mall with a Target, a Penney’s, some toy stores, etc., determined to come home with a project he could enjoy (and enough plastic shower curtains to make the house ‘safe’). </p>

<p>But HORRORS!!! NO bright and basic fingerpaints! Not at any of the stores! At least, not what you or I would call fingerpaints, with those basic vibrant colors sloshing in little jars that fit little fingers so perfectly. Instead, I found ‘Color Wonder’ fingerpaints -COLORLESS, unless applied to pre-packed pre-drawn paper pads (small, letter-sized, 8½” x11”) - providing nothing at all like the kind of creative experience I was trying to offer my grandson. So yes, I’ve been to the Internet and checked children’s ‘specialty’ art supply stores and found what I’m looking for, and that’s okay. But what about the other kids? The other mothers/grandmothers? Are they content, even happy, that Crayola now produces fingerpaint that they can ‘safely’ give their child to use, and they can hurry through household chores or finish the last revision on that assignment they’ve brought home from the office? </p>

<p>The child who uses COLORLESS fingerpaint learns what? - that if they apply it to the ‘right’ paper, they will get color, and nothing in their environment will be disturbed (messed up, and there isn’t time to clean up a mess). They are learning about perfection, not excellence. They are learning more about method (how to do it the ‘right’ way) than about creativity. No color experimentation! And all of a sudden I can envision that child/artist growing up, motivated and achievement-oriented, with a ‘parent advocate’ at his/her side every time a teacher tries to allow the child to accept responsibility for the results of their actions or lack thereof. Then, from my personal experience as a college administrator, I can envision that same child heading off to college (but e-mailing their papers home for editing), and having their parent call the registrar because, “WE seem to be registered in the wrong class . . . I am sure I registered for Soc. 102, but Joey says he is in Soc. 101, not Soc. 102 . … oh, that’s next semester you say?” Kids are certainly learning about how to rely on others (rather than risking their own fuzzy, newborn, breakthrough thoughts) as they progress along the proper path, and about the importance of right answers and wrong answers (rather than the value of mistakes and exploration). </p>

<p>The core, the central factor in learning or in supporting a young person’s learning experience, is, I believe, time. And that is what kids are getting less and less of, as their lives are increasingly scheduled with great, adult-ordered learning events. Are we willing to slow down our process in order to include our children in our lives and so we can enter theirs . . . so that they can easily and comfortably slip on past us in mastery of all we know, and then move on to their own innovations and understanding? Yes, kids learn things from educational toys – but they know that toys are ‘for them’ and are ‘not real’. Most kids will pass toys by in a heartbeat in order to participate with a parent/mentor in a ‘real’ project!</p>

982

<p>Last night, I set out to make my Butternut/Apple Bisque, which Kai loves. Kai and I sat on the kitchen floor together, peeling the butternut squash and apples. It took some time while he explored the different flexibilities in the way the squash peels and apple peels bent and waved, and how easily he could stuff them in the bulb end of the turkey baster. (Wasn’t it Einstein who said that he got his most essential learning about the principles of physics during his first three years?) We shared the experience of shedding some tears without crying as I chopped the red onion, the ginger and celery. Kai saw everything go in the pot, and he never left the kitchen to go play with his array of colorful toys in the living room. He carried the cutlery to the table. He took things out of the dishwasher for me. We spent 15 minutes on the floor together, enjoying the wonder of the spinning salad dryer. He ate his dinner with gusto, proudly dipping his homemade biscuit into the soup he had helped to make, watching the grown-ups eat the lettuce he helped to tear. (At 16 months, his teeth don’t really handle salad well – though he loves to chew on a black olive.) </p>

<p>Kai loves his trips to the grocery store, even more to the weekly fresh-air market, and he delighted in the outing his family shared with another family, including baby, when they all went to pick apples and harvest pumpkins for Halloween. He is such an eager eater, and he loves to explore new tastes and textures. He knows where food comes from. </p>

<p>The essential ingredient in Kai’s meals is time … time to be involved in the process of his life, not rushed to produce/respond to an externally directed learning format. A learning experience we construct for a child is constricted by the limitations of our conceptualization and vision. That means children can learn to be increasingly perfect at accomplishing the goals/tasks that we perceive and present. But. . . who is going to take them further? W need to rely on these fresh minds for their ability to innovate and create, and that may well come from using a tool in a completely ‘wrong’ way . . . having the privacy and freedom to explore options rather than to master skills.</p>

<p>So I agree with you very heartily, David . . . TRUST children – at least trust them MORE! Buy fingerpaint. Explore color!</p>

<p>Ah, great to be homeschooling!</p>

983

<p>mini: Have you considered starting your own blog? I’m not being sarcastic. Obviously, you have a pent up (or not so pent up) desire to write. Ever thought about it? More focused audience than here perhaps?</p>

984

<p>“And so, let’s say if half the student population at an elite school come from families that are upper middle class to rich. I think it is great who my kids are mixing with.”</p>

<p>Me too!</p>

985

<p>Hereshoping,
Mini is a published writer and he has a website and there are links to his essays there. There is a blog there as well. Click on his name and you will get his website.</p>

986

<p>Alumother said, “Garland, to clear it up, I don’t think of UMich on the other side of the divide. I don’t think there is a divide, only a spectrum.”</p>

<p>So where is Brown in the spectrum?</p>

<p>Do we all have the same spectrum?</p>

<p>Susan, you said, " I have said this time and again. Elite schools are not BETTER, but are just different, as well as have a different level of selectivity."</p>

<p>Susan, who is arguing with you over this statement?</p>

987

<p>Redstate USA?</p>

<p>Are you implying redneck? Uncultured? Wow. I thought the richest folks in the US vote Republican? I’d have thought the Shah of Iran or his son would be more comfortable among them than among Howard Dean Dems, no?</p>

988

<p>

I live in Texas, a red state. I don’t know anyone I would call redneck or uncultured. Since you seem interested or perhaps unconvinced, I met the son of the former Shah of Iran when he was stationed at Reese AFB in Lubbock, Texas. I have no idea what his politics were. My point was that you can meet unusual people even if you don’t go to an elite college. I’m not sure what your point is.</p>

989

<p>Well, it’s you who used the label. If you had said Texas, I would have had no trouble at all understanding why you could have met the son of the former Shah of Iran. What was the point of using the term Red State?</p>

990

<p>Dstark: “Susan, who is arguing with you over this statement?”</p>

<p>I am sorry to not be able to dig back and find the posts but there are many who have argued that the top schools are not better as if those who like those schools or go there have an elitist attitude that they are the “best.”</p>

<p>I was saying that those who attend top schools or send their kids there do not perceive the schools as better schools but simply better matches for them or their children. We don’t think the top schools are superior. But I am coming across posts by some that seem to think that those who choose these schools believe they are better and speaking for myself, I don’t think that, nor do my kids. My girls think their schools are the best for them only, not overall. I’m sorry to not be able to pull posts and hunt for them now but there clearly are posts here that allude to those affiliated with very selective schools as thinking they are better. And then those who have chosen less selective schools for whatever reason, have talked about being made to feel “lesser” to some degree. I think it is too bad if they feel anyone from a top school feels that way, because I surely don’t and I do not think everyone who chooses a so called “top school” thinks lesser of schools that are less selective. I think very well of numerous schools and the students who attend them. There are all kinds of schools and the hope is that each student can find the one where they are happy and can thrive. What more is there to want, really.</p>

991

<p>Marite, </p>

<p>Initially, I was reluctant to provide personal information at an anonymous internet chat site. Plus, “red state” is a fairly common term these days and I thought it was sufficient for these purposes.</p>

992

<p>Red State implies the contrary to Blue State. I don’t see the son of the former Shah of Iran in Idaho or Utah (apparently the last two states, together with TX, where GWB still holds a majority according to some polls), but someone from an oil country, I can see very well in TX.</p>

993

<p>Okay, I guess. This was 30 years ago. I wasn’t trying to make a political statement. I was trying to point out that you can meet unusual people in unusual places.</p>

994

<p>DRJ: Point taken. Of course, one can meet unusual people in unusual places. But in some schools, they stop being unusual because there are so many of them. As a matter of fact, there are probably more rich internationals at BU than at Harvard. Members of Suharto’s cabinet apparently liked to enrol their kids there. The Boston area was full of condos they’d bought for their offspring (and as an investment).</p>

995

<p>soozievt: Thanks for that info; interesting!</p>

996

<p>Mini --It has never occurred to me that the purpose of college is meeting rich people. I grew up in city housing projects in Brooklyn and raised my children in one of the richest suburbs of the northeast. I continue to take my inspiration from the projects kids I grew up with, many of whom have gone on to be world-famous and outrageously successful --from CEOs of MAJOR investment banks to heads of fortune 500 companies to artists, writers, teachers, opera singers and everything else (including doctors, lawyers, etc. --at the least.) Growing up with next-to-nothing in the projects gave us all very big dreams. We never needed to meet a rich person to have dreams and follow them, to take risks; but I daresay those rich people could learn a thing or two from my projects friends, who had the ability to pull themselves up from nothing on the power of their big dreams ALONE without a safety net but plenty of grit those rich kids often seem to lack. </p>

<p>I have two children at and going to elite schools, but I have to say …the elitism I see expressed here by some people rubs me wrong from top to bottom. It feels “off” to me, not just off-putting but philosphically off-base. I can only hope that despite the elite schools my children are going to they will resist a sense of entitlement, or any overblown sense of the value of prestige or what it actually means. Gawd I hope my kids don’t go to college to meet rich people --what a waste of all my money that would be. If that is all they are going to get out of it I would prefer them at the state U.</p>

997

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<p>That rings true. But also does the story of well-off kids who think the world is their oyster and are able to convince others that it is so. Both stories are true. </p>

<p>And while well-off kids may know what fork to use, some have appalling manners and total lack of tact or considerations for others. Rubbing shoulders with the very rich is not something we aspire to.</p>

998

<p>well, that’s the irony,… pull yourself up and someone will belittle your kids for being ‘rich kids’.</p>

999

<p>because you don’t receive private messages, I have to say louder than I wish that your writing is often heartbreakingly beautiful,…</p>

1000

<p>Rorosen:</p>

<p>In the last couple of years, I’ve met a couple of rich kids that I did not care for. One who was tactless enough to unwittingly make someone much poorer feel uncomfortable about her financial status. To be fair, she was totally unconscious of what she was doing to the other person.
Another person thinks the world is there to wait on him hand and foot. No doubt that is what he is used to at home. But in college, the “world” in question happens to be the rest of his roommates who do not relish being cast in the role of his servants.</p>