<p>dmd- in a few weeks we will be attending DH’s 25th reunion at MIT. I can hardly wait to see these old friends; they are an amazing group of people. His former suite-mates include everything from partners at Goldman Sachs and McKinsey to a prison guard, counting his days till retirement. </p>
<p>In the three jobs he has held since he got his SB, two of the people who hired him were fellow alums.</p>
<p>TheGFG (does that mean Gift From God? Just wondering.), When my D was faced with the “great decision” last month , I talked to most every high-end college grad and/or successful person I know about career enhancement (one portion of why one would choose A college over B college, probably not the largest portion). </p>
<p>Most felt that if my D was going directly into a profession, and certainly in government, banking, WallStreet, or publishing or if her career plans involved living in an East coast major city, do Yale. I can also see the argument for Ivy law school admittance, although they didn’t mention that factor . Other than that, it just seemed to come down to a balance of fit vs. $. </p>
<p>Since my daughter plans to pursue an a Phd. or MD (or both) degree, and loves school B, most felt that our limited resources (in our case, over $100K difference between A and B) could be better spent elsewhere (like funding some portion of med school and allowing $ for semester and summer abroad programs). For every student and every family, it will be different. </p>
<p>Had my D not had an alternative that she loved, or if her career plans were not as concrete, we would have tried very hard to convince her to go to the higher thought of school. As it was , she made the decision that she thought made sense ten years down the road. I might not have been as practical, but I’ve already been to college.;)</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, what a lovely thought: the Gift from God. I hope I can be that for my family. But no, I chose the name because of the influence of Roald Dahl, who is my youngest child’s favorite author at present (iinspiried by the novel “The BFG”)–just changed a letter to conform to my initials.</p>
<p>My son’s personality and temperament were definitely a factor in our decision-making also. That is why we parents can be such a powerful influence for good in the lives of our children by taking the time to use our wisdom to guide them when needed.</p>
<p>“I was at Harvard, a student who was rejected had a parent who was the head of a country. The student ended up being the head of a country a couple of decades after graduating from Harvard.”</p>
<p>Not for long though! :-)</p>
<p>I went to Harvard for the name and because my Dad went there. Neither of which are good reasons. But at least I didn’t go to be rich! On the one hand it was a silly place for me to go as I was interested in architecture and the VES department is more than a little quirky. But I can’t really regret the experience, because I did meet some amazing people and had a good time. I was in a tiny major so all the bad things about Harvard didn’t apply. Nearly all my professors knew my name and nearly all my classes were under 20. Harvard has definitely gotten me two jobs in architecture that my degree from Columbia in architecture woudn’t have gotten me. One of those jobs was in Germany where the Harvard name counts for much more than it should.</p>
<p>Are you Asian? If not, you may not understand.</p>
<p>The added benefits of top schools: passionate, enthusiastic peer group PLUS low faculty/student ratios, great facilities, big endowments and good financial aid. Lots of faculty and few students means attention, support, mentoring, research opps WITHOUT having to “fight” for them. JMHO.</p>
<p>The benefits appear, as a student, to be very real: the people at the top are from Ivies.</p>
<p>Also, much of what we use and know is from people at the top.</p>
<p>Ted Turner - founder of CNN // reppin Brown University
Bush, Clinton, W Bush - 16 years of Yale presidential power
James Madison - US Constition author // supportin Princeton
Bill Nye - Cornell</p>
<p>the list goes on…</p>
<p>A large portion of the White House are Ivy League buddies… schools from harvard, yale, princeton, cornell… columbia</p>
<p>Al Gore is also at Columbia.</p>
<p>So, big names definitely go to big name schools.</p>
<p>Colin Powell - City University of NY. ;)</p>
<p>Colin Powell - City College of NY - <a href=“http://www.nysun.com/article/32181[/url]”>http://www.nysun.com/article/32181</a> - to which he just donated 1 million dollars for their Policy Center.
</p>
<p>I know there’s a thread somewhere on this board that lists a large number of well known and successful people who have not attended “top colleges” - so let’s not forget them. ;)</p>
<p>we watch sooo many science channels programs that clump a bunch of tier 1 schools, and oxford and cambrdige, with the queensboro community college.</p>
<p>Eric Schmidt - CEO Google - Princeton
Jeff Bezos - CEO Amazon - Princeton
Meg Whitman - CEO eBay - Princeton
Terry Semel - CEO Yahoo - Long Island University</p>
<p>"I think the lawyer’s point of view presented by TheGFG is important, because it points out that for some professions, the undergraduate school matters quite a bit, both for the first job and later on, to maximize opportunities for professional success. For many other professions, it doesn’t give as great a boost. "</p>
<p>I’d be interested in hearing about where TheGFG lives because where I live, a mid sized city, virtually all of the lawyers seem to have gone to State Flagship U or State Wannabe Flagship U. I used to live in the NE, and from what I could see the things that TheGFG’s lawyer friends mentioned held true. However, I don’t live in the NE now, and it seems that what really matters are the connections that come with being a top student at one of the state’s two best public universities.</p>
<p>Even the smartest students in my area tend to go to one of those 2 colleges. My guess is that the students who head to places like Ivies decide not to return to our city, so probably make their marks somewhere in the NE.</p>
<p>At Princeton the academic advising–at least for the undeclared fresh’s and soph’s–is LOUSY, at least from our experience. It would be better at most LAC’s and many state and podunk U’s.</p>
<p>Northstarmom, I live in central NJ. It’s possible that the advantage of having local state university connections that you cite would apply here also. I’ve been told people have done pretty well with their degree from Rutgers Law School!</p>
<p>At the risk of stating the obvious, I also think that which flagship U we’re talking about makes a significant difference, as does whether their strong departments correspond to the student’s intended major. If one of our state universities were William and Mary, for example, my son could easily have ended up there in the history dept.!</p>
<p>Where I live, the flagship state u is very ordinary. not something like UCLA or William & Mary. People in my state are very impressed with it, but I am fairly sure that people in other states would not be impressed because the universities aren’t that highly ranked. When I lived in the NE, I never heard anyone talking about my current state’s public universities. </p>
<p>People in my state, however love Flagship State U and Flagship State Wanabee, and in most areas of the state, being an alum of those universities will provide many more open doors than being an Ivy Leaguer.</p>
<p>Northstarmom, why so secretive? I blabbed to you (and to thousands of the most intelligent people in the US) where we live…it’s your turn now! What state and which universities are you talking about?</p>
<p>I am not posting my location because I know that some of S’s friends use this site, and I don’t want them to know all of S’s biz. In addition, I interview for my alma mater and actually once interviewed a student whom I had initially met here on CC. He was assigned to me at random, and to my knowledge never realized who I was. However, I’d rather not have potential interviewees knowing my interviewing techniques, which I’ve posted on CC.</p>
<p>I do think, however, that there are many states – particularly those not in the NE – where degrees from the state flagship Us (including rather mediocre ones) are valued more highly than Ivy League degrees. In some parts of the country, people from the Northeast are considered rude and snobbish. People who left their home states to get educated at Ivies may be targets of others’ suspicion that after obtaining a “fancy” education, they feel themselves better than the people in their home states. The Ivy Leagues also may be far less up to date on important issues in their hometowns and states than there are about things in D.C., Boston or New York. </p>
<p>From changes in their speech patterns to their ways of dress, the Ivy League educated folks may upon return to their home states stand out like outsiders. The sophistication that people in the NE get excited about may actually close doors to Ivy grads in their home states if those states value down to earthness. Just look at how George Bush, a Yale/Harvard grad adapts such a folksy way of doing things.</p>
<p>I recently left a midwestern state that was as Northstarmom described.</p>
<p>I doubt it’s the same state. </p>
<p>A good chumk of the midwest seemed to me to be this way.</p>
<p>^^^^^I experienced this firsthand when I moved to KY in the 80s. I had just graduated from CMU and had worked 2 college summers at MIT.
CEOs and VPs know of certain schools, but the average HR person did not at the time. Not going to UK or even U of L was a major drawback. This is one time where my Greek connection paid off in spades as I was able to make contacts through my sorority alumnae association.</p>
<p>“People who left their home states to get educated at Ivies may be targets of others’ suspicion that after obtaining a “fancy” education, they feel themselves better than the people in their home states.”</p>
<p>This attitude that alumni from top schools are snobbish prevails everywhere, even in the Northeast. It’s here on CC. Although I’m proud of the college I attended, I usually hide it (except in professional situations) by saying that I went “to college in New Hampshire.” Of course, if someone persists, I answer more completely. I’m actually surprised by how often I’m still asked about college in social settings.</p>
<p>Americans in general distrust those who do well academically. It starts before high school school. I remember starting classes at college and suddenly realizing that I no longer had to hide my intelligence, that I was among others who loved to learn as much as I did. It was exhilarating. The environment that a top college creates with its selectivity does indeed help a student achieve. </p>
<p>It would be ridiculous to argue that people who go to Ivy League or similar schools are smarter than everyone else since we all know that there are brilliant people out there who attended State U or never went to college at all. And some Ivy League grads, despite their potential, crash-and-burn during or after college. However, as a generalized pool, students who go to those schools are intelligent and soon to be well-educated. You simply cannot graduate from a top school without being both intelligent and hard-working. While not all smart people go to top schools, all top schools have smart people. This is the value of the diploma: employers and colleagues know that you have to be an achiever just to get in. Of course, as Northstarmom’s points illustrate, you must first be in a professional setting where your education counts for the alma mater to make a difference.</p>