<p>Where I grew up the same concept was prevalent. None of my classmates or I would have even given an Ivy a thought. Those schools were for the rich and/or the snobbish–the college equivalent of prep school. However, I had chalked up that attitude to the insular nature of that particular community. It was a predominantly religious area so many kids went off to Christian colleges to major in Christian education and church music. Heck, some kids still quit in 8th grade to work the farm (and no, I’m not that old!). Until reading the above posts I had assumed that the concept was a dated one that harkened back to a time when not many folks attended college at all so just going was enough.</p>
<p>This thread makes much more sense. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=139223[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=139223</a></p>
<p>There has to be a good reason why people are willing to go into debt to get their kids into HYP beyond prestige. Most people I know who went to their State U’s did because of economics not by choice. None of them want their kids to do what they did. They all want private educations for their kids at the college level. I’m not saying one’s better, I’m just repeating what I hear them say.</p>
<p>My husband went to Harvard in the 70’s. We compared notes once on how many hours I worked at my womens college compared to his workload at H. He loved the tutorials, didn’t have much to say about the regular classes, but said that his real education came from his peers which is something that someone else here wrote. He said that they were so damned smart, and there was always some incredibly interesting conversation going on somewhere to get in on. He said he’d never have that access to so many bright people in one place again (New York city corporate life included) and will always love his college experience for that reason. I don’t know if my kids are Harvard material or not, but i know how much my husband would like them to go there.</p>
<p>tsdad: I enjoyed that thread you linked to. I grew up in CT and lived in and worked in New Haven for many years (having gone to college out of state). I knew many, many Southern graduates. They were represented in every segment of society in that area (city, state government, business, education, etc., etc.). I tend to doubt that even one of them wasted his/her time pondering how much better their lives would have been had they gone to HYPS. As far as I knew, they were enjoying happy, productive lives too.</p>
<p>each generation tends to want to improve the quality of education for their own children. i look back at our family (i’m at the tail end of the baby boomers). one of our parents had only an 8th grade education and two parents did graduate from high school. another parent graduated from h.s. but in her 40’s. we graduated from state universities…neither of us were really given private education as an option as we were going through that stage of our lives. being from a rural area, it was unheard of for a classmate to leave the state for college. going to another part of the state to attend school (at a state college) was more likely but still not the norm. still today, degrees from our state’s top flagship schools are held in high esteem by many across the state and thought of favorably. someone commented to me that they got their professional degree from the state’s flagship school in order to be able to work in the state. she had received her undergrad from an ivy. she does not regret the ivy education one bit. the decision has to made on what is best for the particular student.</p>
<p>Could someone address the issue of grade inflation at Harvard and other ivys? (I brought this up in an earlier post.) I think we’ve all read many articles about the fact that an A- is the average grade, and some criticisms that, recently, at least, it is harder to “get in than get out.” I’m curious because many posters here have referenced how hard these students have to work while in college, yet this contradicts much of what I’ve been reading over the last year or two.</p>
<p>Just to chime in from Silicon Valley. We are a little bit like a piece of the NE transplanted to a place with sunnier weather:). Everyone here knows of the Ivies and of the top LACs; it’s just that here they also know Stanford, the UCs, University of Santa Clara, and San Jose State. In some ways around here if you are a top graduate of San Jose State, especially if you are a recent immigrant with hardship in your background, you will get more leverage from your SJS diploma than you would from a Tufts diploma or the equivalent.</p>
<p>Hereshoping:</p>
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<p>Exactly. I was trying to make a point, which pretty much everyone has ignored, based having had one full career, starting another, and being an old guy, that what matters in life is not where you go to school, but what kind of person you are and what you want out of life.</p>
<p>Quoting myself from post #11:</p>
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</p>
<p>I think that there is great confusion here about the relationship between the college a student attends and tangible post-graduate success. The Krueger and Dale study confirmed my observation based on many years as a college instructor that the overwhelming determinant are the talents and personal characteristics of the individual. The fact that graduates of the elite colleges generally go on to lead successful and fulfilling lives should come as no surprise. They are priviledged to have not only the best students but to also have the progeny of the most powerful families in America.</p>
<p>Trust me, tsdad, you really aren’t just talking to yourself. What you say resonates with me completely.</p>
<p>
I think the confusion has to do more with definitions of “success,” and more to the point, the fact that “success” wasn’t predicated in the OP in the first place. The OP asked if there were advantages, realized over a lifetime, to having attended an elite school. Doesn’t imply smarter, better, more successful, etc., just asks a simple question. I agree with DKE’s husband in #164 (which agreed with me, in an earlier post). That’s the advantage of attending these schools–that experience of being immersed in a palpably intellectual pool, which most will never experience again.</p>
<p>This is a great thread - thanks NorthStarMom for posing the question. I am also a tail-end baby boomer, raised on a farm. My parents told me that after high school graduation, I could live at home and attend community college for two years, the other two I would have to get on my own. I did - eventually. Graduated from State U two weeks after turning 40. Now my daughter will be attending an Ivy this fall. Between this thread and the one about rich kids vs poor kids, I’m riddled with anxiety and I pray this is the right decision. Our reason for supporting her decision is that she is very bright, loves learning, and we felt that she would thrive among other students as motivated as she is to learn. I’m sure she would do well no matter where she decided to go, but we agreed with her that she would have the most opportunity to “soar” at the school she chose. A relative in academia said that what the Ivy’s do best is gather the brightest kids in the world together and then get out of their way.</p>
<p>To paraphrase Driver:</p>
<p>That’s the disadvantage of attending these schools–that experience of being immersed in a palpably liberal and politically correct pool, with whom most will insist on associating for the rest of their lives.</p>
<p>DRJ4:
Unfortunately, that immersion occurs at practically any college these days. Have you joined <a href=“http://www.thefire.org%5B/url%5D”>www.thefire.org</a> yet? You should. They kick butt and take names.</p>
<p>Driver,</p>
<p>I understand that all colleges are PC these days, but do you really believe that all colleges are equally PC?</p>
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<p>This is what it’s all about for me.</p>
<p>I was an A student at Bryn Mawr/Haverford, and I thought that I was doing my best work there. After transferring to Harvard, the bar in my major field was set much higher, and I found that I was capable of so much more than I’d realized. I had many great professors at both schools, but the standard (particularly the standard of writing) expected of students was very different. The grade I got on my first assignment in my psychology tutorial was the ominous “Come see me”; I was given a good talking-to about what was expected and told to do the assignment over. I ended up with an A in the course, but only after totally re-vamping my conception of what a psychology paper ought to be.</p>
<p>The same was true outside the classroom. It’s a terrible cliche, but Harvard is a place where people dare to dream. It just wouldn’t have occurred to me even to ASPIRE to the kinds of things students were doing around me every day. Hey, let’s publish a series of global travel guides and sell them in every major bookstore in the country. Let’s take our a cappella group on a six-continent world tour every summer. Let’s invite Halle Berry to host our multicultural show (and I’ll be darned if she didn’t show up). It’s just taken for granted that whatever you do, you can aim to do it at the highest level.</p>
<p>All this radically changed my ideas of what was possible for me. I don’t think it’s made me more money, but I can’t put a price on the fact that I don’t get intimidated easily, and that I have oceans more confidence than I ever thought I could.</p>
<p>I’ve deliberately used specific schools in this post instead of talking generally about elites vs. non-elites or what have you, because those lines are pretty subjective IMHO. I knew students who transferred to Bryn Mawr from public schools and feel the same way I do about their transfer. But in my own experience, there was a radical difference between the well-respected school and the one kids fight tooth and nail to get into, even when you put aside the issue of “fit.”</p>
<p>OhMother, relax. Your daughter will do very well. This is a place for neurotic people to express themselves. Otherwise, we’d all be talking to ourselves on street corners. :)</p>
<p>Have you read the threads abouot how much the parents miss their kids when they go off to college? :)</p>
<p>Like I said, your daughter will do very well. Good luck to your daughter.</p>
<p>
Absolutely true, and I think that this again points to the misunderstanding about this thread. What the elites have is a “critical mass” of smart kids that creates its own momentum and environment. Hanna described that well.</p>
<p>Driver, I deleted that post. Sorry. </p>
<p>If I go to a school with 20,000 students and 5,000 are very bright, can I get an elite experience?</p>
<p>Can’t a person learn from people who are not extremely motivated academically, people who are not the brightest?</p>
<p>I mentored a student from Vietnam earlier this year. She knew more about Vietnam than any American student could read from a book. Couldn’t I learn just as much or more from her as I could from some brilliant American student who was majoring in Asian studies?</p>
<p>It’s not really about education when we talk aboout the elite schools. Isn’t it really about being a member of a club? Or can I really learn more about conservative politics from a Harvard grad than you because you went to BU?</p>