The UW-Madison campus is on a hill and is very large. How much do you have to consider the mobility issue?
Eeyore123, do you know the campus? Do you think she could use a 4-wheel mobility scooter there?
I think that your reaches really are reaches.
I do not think that UCLA is a match. I would put it as a reach for admission. It is likely to be full pay.
BU and UC-San Diego probably are matches for admission. However, they are likely to be full pay. At least for us (similar stats) BU was not affordable at full pay.
Pittsburgh does look likely both for admission and to fit under your $60,000 budget.
The Canadian schools on your list are very likely for admission given your daughter’s excellent stats and will fit the budget.
At least in my experience one advantage of small schools is that it is easier for a student to get to know their professors and for excellent students to get involved in significant research. I do wonder whether you should consider smaller schools. The famous ones in my part of the world (Williams, Bowdoin, Wellesley) do not offer merit aid and would exceed your budget without need based aid. Some less famous ones might be good fits both due to the ease of getting involved in research and to minimize the implications of any limited mobility.
A lot of universities have very good biology programs.
“Do you think she could use a 4-wheel mobility scooter there?”
This does seem to be likely to be a problem in snow.
I am familiar with Pitt and agree that it is great for biology and would be a safety with her stats. The campus is relatively compact and is right in the city so there are sidewalks and crosswalks everywhere.
The big concern I see are the hills. The campus is built against a hillside referred to as “cardiac hill” based on how difficult it is for an able bodied person to climb. Many classroom buildings are on the main campus level but there are science buildings as you start going up the hill. Upper campus includes some dorms, the main rec center including the pool, and the main student parking lot. There are buses that drive around the campus to make getting around easier and I know there are students in wheelchairs that make it work for them, but if she is seriously considering a Pitt she should look into this further.
DadTwoGirls,
I agree with everything you wrote and, sure enough, I would rather have her in a smaller university. This option would, as you wrote, minimize the implications of any limited mobility, but again, there are budget constraints. Case Western Reserve University, with 5.200 students, and Emory, with 7.000 students, both seems to be a god fit if she gets merit aid.
Thank you for your inputs.
She might have mobility issues at Pitt. Main area is flat and fairly compact but peripheral area is very hilly. “Cardiac Hill” is real and a lot of the medical facilities are nearby.
Temple University might be a better safety. Very flat and compact campus. She most likely would get substantial merit and honor college acceptance. We were impressed. I know the surrounding area has a bad rep but I think that’s been changing. The campus is actually pretty nice. They have their own medical school.
I would look south or midwest for schools if she has mobility issues. Better weather and probably (but not always flatter). With a COA of around $50-60k Georgia Tech, Miami, Rollins, and SMU came to mind. She probably would get merit from Miami and SMU. Maybe enough to get the COA to a reasonable level. Emory would be a good possibility except not sure she would get enough merit. I think they’re more need based aid.
Answer to shmcnm:
Thank you for your comments. Georgia Tech is already in my list. I am adding Emory, hoping to get some aid. I will give a look at Miami, Rollins, and SMU.
As an FYI, if you put an @ before a user name, if will notify the person.
I have never tried getting around the Madison campus with a 4 wheel scooter. I am sure that it is possible but likely takes longer. Some of the sidewalks get really busy at prime time between classes. Rain is almost worse than snow because nobody knows how to walk with an umbrella.
I really would start thinking about housing. Some universities require on campus housing for one or more years. Madison doesn’t. I don’t know if it would be better to live on or off campus.
@Eeyore123 Thanks a lot for your suggestions.
The UCs are not good places for merit for non residents. UCLA would not be conducive during a busy transition on Bruin Walk. UCSD is also on a slope. There are a lot of stairs, on-going construction every year, everywhere since it was built. I would suggest taking the UCs off the list for mobility alone. Competition is fierce.
@“aunt bea” I have already taken the UCs off the list. Thank you.
Some considerations that I have not seen discussed here.
- Does she want to remain in the US for her career or return to Brasil? If she is intending to relocate back to the US permanently then geography should be a large part of the discussion. Most schools have fairly limited geographic reach when it comes to job placements, internships and such. It is really only the Ivy and equivalents that have a national reach. If she wants to eventually settle in say the Northeast then that would be the best place to look for universities, not say...Arizona. I'm a grad of UW in Seattle. There is an amazingly strong alumni network for UW in the greater Seattle area so it would be the ideal place to go for a student who wanted to perhaps settle in the Seattle area. Perhaps not for someone who wanted to live and work in Texas where UT and A&M grads rule the roost.
- Most American students have some sort of home to go back to in the US during breaks, summers, and after graduation. It sounds like she will not have family in the US to live with. So picking a location that will make a good home is going to be more critical than for US students who might just be a short drive or plane ride home. I would avoid picking schools located in out of the way backwater towns that have little redeeming value as a place for a young person to live and start their career. I would rather be looking at schools that are within or on the edges of larger and more vibrant metro areas, not say in the middle of rural Iowa. Remote small town colleges can be lonely places during holidays and summers for international students when everyone else has gone home.
- I'm a former working biologist and now teach HS biology. It is one of the most common majors and most schools with reputable science departments are going to have decent biology departments. Rather than trying to parse rankings of biology programs, look for things like how much undergrads are involved in research since that is what it seems that she wants to do.
As for merit aid? We are in the exact same situation with a daughter interested in biology who will be entering fall 2021. Generally speaking, merit aid is something that schools offer who want to increase their competitiveness for students they would not otherwise attract. This means that both private and public schools at the top of their rankings generally do not offer merit aid, either as actual policy, or in effect. Schools like UCLA, Stanford, and UW-Seattle already attract far more top students than they can possibly enroll. So from their perspective, merit aid is just wasted money. Stanford can fill its freshman class with 100% full pay students several times over if it wanted. UCLA could probably do the same.
The schools that do offer merit aid are those trying to move up and compete with the next tier above them. So here on the west coast, University of Oregon offers generous merit aid to attract OOS students from CA, as does Washington State and Oregon State. While UW-Seattle does not because it is already at the top tier.
In terms of private schools, the top schools like Pomona, Stanford, and Caltech do not offer merit aid because they don’t need to. And near top schools like USC, while they technically still offer merit aid, an exceedingly small number of students actually qualify and receive it so it is more theoretically than real. By contrast the next tier down of private universities tend to have much more generous merit aid and commonly hand out 10-20k merit awards to students with your daughter’s equivalent stats. Here on the west coast that would be places like Gonzaga, University of Puget Sound, Lewis & Clark, Occidental, Santa Clara, Loyola Marymount, etc.
So if merit aid is a major criteria in your search, look for the private and public schools that, while still good schools, are a step below the very top. Those are the ones who offer the most merit aid to students who might otherwise decide to go to higher rated schools if no merit aid were available.
You have brought up interesting topics. I will answer/comment about them:
- She is leaning towards coming back to Brazil (possibly after her Masters or PHD);
- She would prefer a more urban area and we do have family in Ohio, Indiana and Pennsylvania;
- Checking how much undergrads are involved in research is a very good tip, although I am not sure where to look for this information.
I appreciate you tip about merit aid.
Thank you very much.
I would focus on the mobility situation. She needs to be somewhere without significant hills, and preferably with a modern campus that isn’t full of stairs and doesn’t have its elevators hidden in inconvenient corners of buildings. Miami is flat. Most of Florida is flat. Much of Philadelphia (Temple U) is flat. Much of Chicago (and much of Illinois in general) is flat. If she’s willing to face truly serious winter conditions, the University of North Dakota in Grand Forks is absolutely flat, and has the USDA Human Nutrition Lab right next to campus - with good opportunities for undergrad research. So check topographic maps of the campus area for every place on her list, and drop the ones that are going to cause problems for her.
Truly, she will have undergrad research opportunities no matter where she ends up. If the faculty at her own college/university aren’t doing anything at all along that line, they have pals at other institutions that are. I wouldn’t worry about it right now. When you do have flat-enough places identified, contact the biology departments at each of them and enquire about undergrad research opportunities.
@happymomof1
thank you for your comments. This is a very good point: we have to focus on mobility. We will keep that in mind.
I’m not sure if other posters are aware, but whilst Pitt is normally great for merit, for international students it offers a max annual scholarship of $2000, so basically a drop in the bucket.
UT won’t offer any merit to an international student.
I agree with taking the UCs off; they will be right at the very top of the budget.
@CollegeBoundBrit Interesting point regarding UPitt, but I am not sure if she would be considered international given that she has American citizenship.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I gather she would be viewed as an international student only by admissions officers but not when it comes to the financial aspect.
Having just gone through the college search with an aspiring MD/PhD student focused on research, here are my suggestions. Don’t focus solely on merit as there are great schools that will fit the budget without it. Do apply to a wide range of schools (selectivity, size, geography, etc) and see what feels right to her. NC State would be fairly easy to navigate in a scooter. UNC Charlotte would be even easier and light rail from campus to the city would be great for her. Research opportunities at both on campus and in Research Triangle of N.C. for summers. Emory is a great campus but pricey. Definitely a reach for all. University of Dayton has good scholarships, research, diverse students, compact campus and sends students to Emory and similar schools for grad school. A great safety for her. We did not tour UT Dallas but checks most of her boxes. Does not appear mobility would be an issue there at all. Happy to answer specific questions. Good luck!
@Cheeringsection Thank you for your comments. NC would have milder temperatures, so I guess we would not have to worry about snow.
I will check your suggested universities.
@BrazilianMom Consider TCU! Her stats seem great for a nice scholarship, and it seems to check the boxes she has. Every part of campus is accessible, lots of ramps and elevators. Biology is a strong program, separate from pre-med. The weather is amazing- the only time it gets hot in my experience is summer when most students head home anyways. There are many undergrad research opportunities as well 