Nine years ago, a poster named Mini put together an “entitlement index” (http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/wellesley-college/10113-chances-at-mount-holyoke-smith-wellesley.html) to quantify how snobby/preppy/entitled the student body is at various liberal arts colleges. Here’s how the index was calculated: “The first number represents the percentage of students who were admitted from private schools. The second number represents the percentage of students who do not receive need-based financial aid from the institution. The final number is the Entitlement (preppy) Index score. Numbers are taken from the most recent Princeton Review.”
I would like to update this index to use in putting together my college list, but it appears that the Princeton Review no longer includes the percentage of students admitted from private schools. Does anyone know where I can find this information? Is there another statistic you would suggest to help me ascertain where student bodies fall on the salt-of-the-earth to trust-fund-baby scale?
@schadenfreuden If you want to go down this road please penalize students from public schools that take a lot of AP course or ones that go to public magnet schools. Such programs suck lots of money from the students that need it the most to those that don’t. Also keep in mind that students that go to private school often receive a considerable amount of financial aid.
I looked at that list and one of the most privileged is also one that is well known for sending a lot of kids into the Peace Corps.
I don’t think it’s a matter of virtue, but if you want to be at a college where a majority of students are middle to upper middle class, rather than mostly upper middle and upper class, the above index is fairly accurate. For someone who’s concerned by good socio-economic diversity, I would add points for Pell grant receivers and percentage of first gen students. I would NOT equate preppy with wealthy, so there should be “preppy and wealthy”(eg., Washington and Lee, Trinity) “wealthy and non preppy” (ex.Vassar, Sarah Lawrence), “wealthy and into social justice/socio-economic awareness” (eg., Brown, Pitzer).
My cousin attended a private college in Boston and spoke often of feeling isolated because she couldn’t afford to tag along when her friends — most who had parents footing their bills — went out to dinner and a movie. I’m going to be a similar boat, and I’d like to find a private college where I might find a friend or two who can appreciate a night of ramen noodles with a Redbox flick.
Such concerns are often self-fulfilling. Has anyone suggested that you consider schools which offer a fine educational atmosphere, yet are less prestigious or “snobby”?
Fair point, look at data and don’t make assumptions. Even the “elite” New England schools have about 50% on FA and rising amounts of minority students. Bates is 4th on that list but is now 37% students of color and first generation in the latest class.
And the comment above is correct. Often these fears are made up.
That’s exactly what I’m looking for – schools with a fine educational atmosphere that are less pretentious. I know there are private colleges out there that meet this definition, but I’m not finding it easy to determine which ones they are.
For example, I don’t think I’d fit in well at Vassar or Bates, but could I be comfortable at Muhlenberg or Rochester? I think some of the Midwestern CLAs would be reasonable fits, but is it worth considering any schools in the Mid-Atlantic or Northeast regions? Few students in my high school attend college outside of the Southeast, so research is about the only way to figure this out.
Most public schools have a considerably larger student population, a larger student:faculty ratio and lower 4-year graduation rates. Additionally, some private colleges offer aid packages that would make the cost of attendance comparable to what you’d find in a public school. That said, I’m not ruling out a public school; in fact, there are several that I know will be on my final list. However, I’d be wiser not to put all of my eggs in that basket.
However, FA recipients at places like Harvard are often from high income backgrounds. The average financial aid grant received by Harvard students who receive financial aid may seem impressively large, but playing with Harvard’s net price calculator indicates that students from families with incomes well into six figures can get that amount of financial aid grant. I.e. many of the FA recipients are from top 10% income families, rather than top 3% income families.
And really, people should know better. There are plenty of old-school preps who aren’t wealthy (went into social work or academia or art), and plenty of wealthy people who aren’t preppy (hedge fund managers et al). Donald Trump is wealthy, but he sure isn’t preppy. Preppy is understated.
You are assuming that people of means are snobs, which is not necessarily the case. I know old money families who are gracious and understated and use plastic glasses at their parties. I know middle class families who are striving so anxiously that the crystal glassware comes out and they babble about their special IPAs and laugh at anyone who would drink a Budweiser. I know working class families who are obsessed with flashing whatever brands they can, wow, a Coach purse, a Tag watch! The poor yearn to be rich, read yer Nietzsche. Snobbery knows no class.
I don’t believe I made this assumption. However, what I did say is that I’m not going to be in a financial position to do many of the things that students whose parents are funding their education will be able to do — and it is important to me to not feel cut off because of that. Given that I value quantitative over qualitative data, I am asking for opinions about how I go about finding schools where I will be more likely to fit in socially. Is that simply impossible to do? I know there are usually exceptions to any rule, but surely there is a way for me to be able to pinpoint colleges where I’m more likely to find more students in a similar situation.
I think your problem is that it’s not so much a matter of income as it is a matter of tone. In my (biased) opinion, people are more snooty at Harvard than at Yale, but it’s not because of a wealth differential. I think you need to do more subjective research–for example, look at the campus newspapers for the colleges that interest you. What sort of issues are being addressed? Look at the college-specific forums here on CC–what’s being discussed?
“schools with a fine educational atmosphere that are less pretentious”
Carleton, Haverford, St. Olaf, Colorado College, Whitman are colleges that fit that description in my opinion, having visited at 25-30 LACs. I don’t think you can quantify this stuff. It’s best to visit schools if you can. In my experience, you cannot connect wealth to being snobby. I know many people of means who are very down to earth, very into social justice issues, and not materialistic at all. I also know many people from limited means who are very materialistic, who “put on airs”, and who I would describe as snobby.
The piece that you’re missing is that regardless of the breadth of family incomes, some schools provide an atmosphere where there isn’t going to be a lot of distinction – there are a lot of free or very cheap activities on campus, etc. Other schools will provide an atmosphere in which students will “entertain” in very different fashions depending upon their financial backgrounds.
As a blunt example: NYU would be an example of the latter, because it’s very easy in New York to spend a lot of money going clubbing, to fancy shows, restaurants, etc. Grinnell is an example of the former - because even if you are the child of Daddy Warbucks, there just isn’t a lot of spending / entertainment to be had in the middle of nowhere in Iowa, and the school provides a lot of entertainment on campus that is free or nearly free to all.
Those factors really have little to do with the wealth of the student body per se, but what the college does / doesn’t do to “even the playing field” (keeping in mind that there are always going to be people with more money than you, and such is life).
Here’s another example: Some colleges have “premium” dorms (that cost more) and/or “premium” meal plans - so what your parents can afford dictates your living circumstance. Other colleges have one-cost-for-everyone dorms and one-plan-for-everyone meal plans – so there is less distinction in that regard.
Make more sense? The exact makeup of the student body isn’t really the determining factor here. Yale’s got plenty of rich kids, but my understanding is that they all live pretty similarly.