What did your kids learn aboutThanksgiving?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I know this question is seasonally inappropriate, but I am teaching a course overseas in American Culture. A few American exchange students are also in the class. I’ve begun to realize (also via Google research) that many kids today are taught that the purpose of the original Thanksgiving was to thank the Indians for helping the Pilgrims learn to survive, plant corn, etc. </p>

<p>While we usually do picture the First Thanksgiving as a feast where Indians were invited and honored as guests, wouldn’t the Pilgrims primary response to celebrating their harvest and survival in the New World have been to give thanks to God? </p>

<p>What are they teaching nowadays in the schools? What do you think?</p>

<p>The Internet seems to suggest that there is a pretty big ideological split between liberals and conservative Christians on this issue? Should this be merely a matter of “opinion” --what about historical accuracy?</p>

2

<p>There’s definitely a “politically correct” interpretation and a “historically accurate” interpretation. I’m not sure where the line is drawn on either one, though. Thanksgiving for me tends to having other, more personal meaning.</p>

3

<p>The original Thanksgiving featured a feast wherein teams of pilgrims and Indians faced each other, the center man on one side bending over to hike a pumpkin back between his legs to the quarterback, while the Pilgrim women and Indian squaws looked on, frowning with arms crossed as the food got cold.</p>

4

<p>One vote in favor of historical accuracy, btw.</p>

5

<p>Once my D, when she was 6 had to write the story about Easter, well her’s involved the Easter Bunny being Jesus’s dad…it was very cute, btw</p>

6

<p>pyewacket, I actually think you should stress the modern interpretation of Thanksgiving - a holiday for family, food, football, relaxion. I honestly don’t think many people consider the historical or politically correct stories on Thanksgiving. They think about good food, good company, and a good time had by all.</p>

7

<p>To be helpful, my kids learned the Historicial Truth, all the sides of the coming to the “new” world…</p>

<p>There was once a HUGE debate at her school with regards to a question on a History test about the “American” food for thanksgiving…I can’t remember all the details, but it involved immigrants, meals, tradition etc.</p>

8

<p>Interesting discussion…</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.historychannel.com/thanksgiving/[/url]”>http://www.historychannel.com/thanksgiving/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>*“The reason that we have so many myths associated with Thanksgiving is that it is an invented tradition. It doesn’t originate in any one event. It is based on the New England puritan Thanksgiving, which is a religious Thanksgiving, and the traditional harvest celebrations of England and New England and maybe other ideas like commemorating the pilgrims. All of these have been gathered together and transformed into something different from the original parts.”</p>

<ul>
<li>James W. Baker, Senior Historian at Plimoth Plantation*</li>
</ul>

9

<p><a href=“http://history1900s.about.com/od/1930s/a/thanksgiving_2.htm[/url]”>http://history1900s.about.com/od/1930s/a/thanksgiving_2.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>a nice little summary</p>

10

<p>Proclamation</p>

<p>State of New-Hampshire. In Committee of Safety, Exeter, November 1, 1782 : Ordered, that the following proclamation for a general thanksgiving on the twenty-eighth day of November instant, received from the honorable Continental Congress, be forthwith printed …</p>

<p>STATE OF NEW-HAMPSHIRE.
IN COMMITTEE of SAFETY,
EXETER, November 1, 1782.</p>

<p>ORDERED,
THAT the following Proclamation for a general THANKSGIVING on the twenty-eighth day of November [instant?], received from the honorable Continental Congress, be forthwith printed, and sent to the several worshipping Assemblies in this State, to whom it is recommended religiously to observe said day, and to abstain from all servile labour thereon.
M. WEARE, President.</p>

<p>By the United States in Congress assembled.</p>

<p>PROCLAMATION. </p>

<pre><code>IT being the indispensable duty of all Nations, not only to offer up their supplications to ALMIGHTY GOD, the giver of all good, for his gracious assistance in a time of distress, but also in a solemn and public manner to give him praise for his goodness in general, and especially for great and signal interpositions of his providence in their behalf: Therefore the United States in Congress assembled, taking into their consideration the many instances of divine goodness to these States, in the course of the important conflict in which they have been so long engaged; the present happy and promising state of public affairs; and the events of the war, in the course of the year now drawing to a close; particularly the harmony of the public Councils, which is so necessary to the success of the public cause; the perfect union and good understanding which has hitherto subsisted between them and their Allies, notwithstanding the artful and unwearied attempts of the common enemy to divide them; the success of the arms of the United States, and those of their Allies, and the acknowledgment of their independence by another European power, whose friendship and commerce must be of great and lasting advantage to these States:----- Do hereby recommend to the inhabitants of these States in general, to observe, and request the several States to interpose their authority in appointing and commanding the observation of THURSDAY the twenty-eight day of NOVEMBER next, as a day of solemn THANKSGIVING to GOD for all his mercies: and they do further recommend to all ranks, to testify to their gratitude to GOD for his goodness, by a cheerful obedience of his laws, and by promoting, each in his station, and by his influence, the practice of true and undefiled religion, which is the great foundation of public prosperity and national happiness.
</code></pre>

<p>Done in Congress, at Philadelphia, the eleventh day of October, in the year of our LORD one thousand seven hundred and eighty-two, and of our Sovereignty and Independence, the seventh.
JOHN HANSON, President.
Charles Thomson, Secretary.</p>

<p>PRINTED AT EXETER.</p>

11

<p>cavalier— I do teach the modern signifcance of the holiday for most Americans–food, family, friends, football, food, flights…</p>

<p>But I would really like to know what most schools are doing with the topic nowadays–are they leaving out the religious convictions of the Pilgrims?
Of coures, I would expect them to also teach the whole story from the Indians’ perspective.</p>

<p>Did you see the recent New Yorker cartoon: A few Indians on the shore see a boatload of Pilgrims rowing in . One Indian says '“Well, they look pretty undocumented to me.”</p>

12

<p>It’s the day before International Buy Nothing Day.</p>

13

<p>From News, Politics, Sports, Mail & Latest Headlines - AOL.com</p>

<p>"There are only two contemporary accounts of the 1621 Thanksgiving: First is Edward Winslow’s account, which he wrote in a letter dated December 12, 1621. The complete letter was first published in 1622, and is chapter 6 of Mourt’s Relation: A Journal of the Pilgrims at Plymouth.</p>

<p>Our corn [i.e. wheat] did prove well, and God be praised, we had a good increase of Indian corn, and our barley indifferent good, but our peas not worth the gathering, for we feared they were too late sown. They came up very well, and blossomed, but the sun parched them in the blossom. Our harvest being gotten in, our governor sent four men on fowling, that so we might after a special manner rejoice together after we had gathered the fruit of our labors. They four in one day killed as much fowl as, with a little help beside, served the company almost a week. At which time, amongst other recreations, we exercised our arms, many of the Indians coming amongst us, and among the rest their greatest king Massasoit, with some ninety men, whom for three days we entertained and feasted, and they went out and killed five deer, which they brought to the plantation and bestowed on our governor, and upon the captain and others. And although it be not always so plentiful as it was at this time with us, yet by the goodness of God, we are so far from want that we often wish you partakers of our plenty.</p>

<p>The second description was written about twenty years after the fact by William Bradford in his History Of Plymouth Plantation. Bradford’s History was rediscovered in 1854 after having been taken by British looters during the Revolutionary War. Its discovery prompted a greater American interest in the history of the Pilgrims, which eventually led to Lincoln’s decision to make Thanksgiving a holiday. It is also in this account that the Thanksgiving turkey tradition is founded.</p>

<p>They began now to gather in the small harvest they had, and to fit up their houses and dwellings against winter, being all well recovered in health and strength and had all things in good plenty. For as some were thus employed in affairs abroad, others were exercising in fishing, about cod and bass and other fish, of which they took good store, of which every family had their portion. All the summer there was no want; and now began to come in store of fowl, as winter approached, of which this place did abound when they came first (but afterward decreased by degrees). And besides waterfowl there was great store of wild turkeys, of which they took many, besides venison, etc. Besides they had about a peck of meal a week to a person, or now since harvest, Indian corn to that proportion. Which made many afterwards write so largely of their plenty here to their friends in England, which were not feigned but true reports.</p>

14

<p>Given that the Pilgrims did come to the New World to escape religious persecution, what is wrong with teaching that they gave Thanks? It surprises me that there is a conservative/liberal split on the issue - seems like you have a religious ceremony on the conservative side and an “escaping religious persecution” thing - this country was founded on the idea of religious freedom - sigh.</p>

<p>On an unrelated note, when I read the above posts, I couldn’t help but think of how “pagan” it sounds - to give thanks at harvest time for the abundance of the earth. Renmants of the “mother earth” images there.</p>

15

<p>“Given that the Pilgrims did come to the New World to escape religious persecution, what is wrong with teaching that they gave Thanks?”</p>

<p>False. And THIS is where the real historical problem is. The Pilgrims came from Holland where they were not being persecuted at all. In fact, that was the problem. The lack of persecution resulted in their kids falling away from “the true faith”; their employment (mostly as weavers, dyers, and tailors) combined with easily obtained credit was making them “fat and sassy”, and almost complete religious freedom was opening them up to “evil influences.” John Robinson, their leader, saw he was quickly losing control of the flock. If you ever go to Leiden, you can visit all kinds of Pilgrim sites. They came to the New World so they could find a place to give free exercise to their own religious intolerance.</p>

<p>Luckily, they didn’t stay that way for long. The traditions of religious toleration that the Pilgrims learned from the Dutch (including religious, civil, and economic liberty) stuck with them longer than the separatist doctrines of their own English founders.</p>

16

<p>What nice about Thanksgiving, is there is no mass, no focus on going to church, and before the day, if you do go to church its all about giving of food, clothing, etc, to those in need</p>

<p>But the actual day itself if very ecumenical…there is no Jesus, Buddah, Allah…</p>

<p>its evolution is much like Christmas…was there really a harvest in November? um, no…</p>

17

<p>Don’t the Detroit Lions always play on Thanksgiving? Hardly ecumenical (and more in the spirit of the original Pilgrim settlers, see post 14.) ;)</p>

18

<p>Is your focus on contemporary American culture or historical American culture? I think there’s a huge difference in the two approaches to T’giving. As an atheist family (both my parents were atheists as well so I’m going back many many years here), our thanks are to each other and to the community, not to a god. But nonetheless, I think what is significant about Thanskgiving is that it is a uniquely American holiday without a major religious tradition behind it, just like Independence Day. It is important to me that, like July 4th, there is no present-giving/card-sending commercialism BS about it. </p>

<p>Answering the question “what did my kids learn about Thanksgiving?” is a more difficult one. In history, they learned about Plimoth Plantation and religious persecution; they didn’t learn about the European diseases that swept through the “Indians” (native Americans) that left them as dependent on the Europeans as the Europeans were dependent on them. (<a href=“http://www.nmai.si.edu/education/files/harvest.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nmai.si.edu/education/files/harvest.pdf&lt;/a&gt;)</p>

<p>Nor did they learn that there were settlements in what is now the United States long before Plimoth Plantation.</p>

19

<p>Aries, that’s okay, the flames at the beginning of Easter vigil always bring me to mind the Archdruid of Canterbury. Christianity has been pretty good about appropriating older foundations when useful.</p>