My daughter is at Stanford, and was accepted at every school she applied to inc HYPM and Northwestern. Harvard offered $25,000 in “aid” and Northwestern, $2,500.
Btw, Berkeley has more #1 ranked graduate programs than HYPS. Only MIT has more.
“Only MIT has more.”
In 11 Ph.D programs, yes, but I believe Berkeley tops MIT when you include all the rest.
Here are two reports on department rankings:
2017 (based on US News):
http://publicuniversityhonors.com/rankings-academic-departments-private-elites-vs-publics/
1995 (based on NRC):
http://www.stat.tamu.edu/~jnewton/nrc_rankings/nrc1.html#TOP60
Such an interesting question.
I wouldn’t say this. It would depend a lot on the department, too, especially in the sciences and engineering. But academic positions are so competitive these days that even mid-ranked schools can compete for faculty with degrees from the best places with ridiculous publishing histories and bodies of research. The research at Columbia and Penn and Duke (especially in the biomedical sciences) and at Chicago (in economics, especially) is every bit as cutting edge as that at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, or MIT. (In fact, I would say Princeton is actually on the lower end of the research spectrum given it’s smaller size and heavier undergrad focus).
That’s definitely true beyond Harvard, Yale, and Princeton - it’s definitely true at Columbia, Northwestern, and Penn as well (I know some students from those schools who have fallen into those designations), and also I suspect at Duke, Chicago, Dartmouth, Brown, Vanderbilt, etc. The constellation of schools that earn this designation is bigger than just a handful of schools. (And goes way deeper than you might thing…I went to Spelman, a top HBCU, and I knew many students from Spelman and Morehouse as well as Howard and Hampton who had non-business majors and were recruited into elite investment banks or financial firms.)
The super-star faculty (not in terms of talent or skill, but in terms of general name recognition) and super talented/famous/noble students are probably two distinctions. The very tippy-top schools have the ability to poach super-star faculty that actually may have done most of their work or developed their agendas at lower-ranked schools. And the children of foreign dignitaries/royalty, pop stars and actors/actresses, and child prodigies do seem to be more likely to choose Harvard or Yale than Chicago, Vanderbilt or Duke. But I’m not sure that’s a particularly good reason to choose them, or necessarily an “opportunity” to miss out on…
The title should be changed to the, “next 10-25 schools.” That is if you feel USNWR rankings are correct.
You are correct partially. Actually if kid has enough $$$$$ or have connection, you can get a job in investment bank without much problems. However, if you want to go to buy side directly from college, then for a poor kid, you have to attend very elite college. Private equity companies, Venture capital firms, and hedge only hires from Wharton, HYPMS or other ivies and may take only rich kids from other colleges like Michigan etc. For poor kids, no such luck for buy side job from Michigan, Berkeley, Georgia tech etc. The poor kids will be hired for investment bankers job without any issues from these colleges.
Buy side jobs are very very hard to get to directly after college graduation. It is even harder fro poor kids, and may be impossible if poor kid did not attend a top elite schools. ,
Other fields not an issue, jobs at google, and other top companies no problems, at least that is what small experience we have. But our experience may be very limited data also.
One advantage of HYP are grad school admissions. Two of the best law schools in the country are Yale’s and Havard’s. If you look at the class profile for Yale, the most matriculates come from Yale, then Harvard with Princeton a distant third. Harvard has the same ranking, flipping Yale with Harvard. After that come the various Ivies and NE LAC’s in the relative order of their prestige.
With the exception of Stanford and Berkeley, schools outside the Ivy/NE LAC world struggle to get more than a handful of graduates into YLS or HLS.
You can see the figures on page 160 from the Yale Law Bulletin.
http://bulletin.printer.yale.edu/pdffiles/law.pdf
The top schools were:
Yale: 69
Harvard: 65
Princeton: 37
Columbia: 30
Brown: 22
@theloniusmonk
Given that research has shown that there is a zero relationship between research and teaching…
This statement:
would suggest that there is also a zero relationship between your “undergrad rankings” (as well as the departmental research rankings and the US News rankings) and the actual quality of undergraduate education.
Obviously wealth and network play a role, but you’re exaggerating it heavily. Kids from Michigan and Georgetown and elsewhere can still get top jobs. Moreover, those schools place just as well as Yale and Princeton. The only schools that really provide a substantial difference are Wharton and Harvard.