What do ECs mean for the rest of your life?

Parents Forum
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<p>There is very little focus on science or math. There is absolutely no focus on athletics or sports. ECs are for … Just not the picture I get from Indian kids, living in India, who post on CC. They are par with US kids academically, sometimes better. Their ECs may be badminton, cricket, soccer instead of marching band and Key Club, but not exclusively singing and painting or more tradtional cultural activities. Not exclusively. The only diff I see is that they don’t have the string of hs-level “leadership” opps- vp of this or that. These kids come to US colleges prepared, academically and socially. And, many do have community service, as part of school or another group- or because they know it figures in college apps.</p>

<p>I can see why IP says, once in college, you can’t follow the same pre-college hustle of activities, so choose ones you can do well at- or be very, very good at- or that are, in some way, relevant to you. That’s simply his/her way of saying something many American parents believe. We try to expose our kids to many activities, over time, and then expect them to focus on a lesser number, according to their interests and strengths. Yes, we do. We don’t expect them to be in 4-5 college clubs, including some with competitions (debate, sci bowl, etc) a sport or two, plus vol work or comm service. We hope they will be engaged- and try some new things- but use the college years to identify what matters to them. If they have a particular talent- music, sports, whatever- we do hope they will keep up with that and progress in some way. </p>

<p>I don’t see OP/IP calling us barbarians. I see phrasing that keeps up a bickering. At various points, I thought it was willful, yes, and at other points, just a difference in how we use English.</p>

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<p>IP…just curious…you list "academics and literature above…what ARE the other academics? I’ve met some very well accomplished folks from India who were clearly were well educated in math and science (think…engineers)…so that must be emphasized somewhere.</p>

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<p>IndianParent, I doubt my experience will sway your view of ECs, but here goes.</p>

<p>I danced ballet from age 3 on. I enjoyed being in Nutcracker shows with city ballet (great costumes & full make-up). I liked being in HS shows as a dancer, never speaking or singing. I had summer jobs teaching dance. In college I worked in the musical production, and met future roommate thru that. I was too short to ever be a professional dancer, not skilled enough, and didn’t want to become a dance teacher. Over the years, I’ve attended exercise classes with dance themes and pilates. Keeps me limber & meet nice people.</p>

<p>I could substitute tennis or piano or running. Hobbies one starts in their youth can last a life time. What took real effort was getting my professional degree and maintaining a career.</p>

<p>Out of curiousity, what do you do for fun?</p>

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<p>I wonder if part of what’s behind this conversation is that Americans have the luxury to be somewhat less goal-oriented than people in some other cultures.</p>

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<p>Related to that, I think, are different cultural assumptions about what it takes to be “successful.” For example, I think in America, the Horatio Alger archetype is still big – which is less about raw intellect (as measured by GPA, test scores) and more about positive personality characteristics such as pluck, perseverance and determination … which isn’t necessarily the same thing as “obsessively practice over and over again to achieve perfection.”</p>

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<p>I also wonder what impact the historical Indian caste structure plays into this. I note that IP hasn’t talked about volunteering / helping those less fortunate as an activity (I recognize that he’s talked about it elsewhere in the context of opening his wallet and donating, but not in terms of hands-on). Maybe our culture feels differently about the role of hands-on volunteer work with those less fortunate.</p>

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<p>Yes, there are huge cultural under-pinnings to this. IP’s very stance and tone is indicative of that. As well as his sense of “place” (in social strata, in nation-state), which is not a fundamental value here.</p>

<p>IP- I really do wonder if your son is not acquiring a little more of the impromptu/leisure/individualist based ethos we have here… even at the British School!</p>

<p>In (your state of) India, do parents, do as you do, ie, let your child pursue whatever they want?</p>

<p>Are you at all worried about his paycheck as a musician? His ability to COMPETE even if he is really excellent? [Speak in generalities if you prefer, as I do not want to pick on your son, specifically]</p>

<p>You have a temperament of single-mindedness, of intensity. In a country which is stewing a huge variety of ingredients, things are not always so predictable or formulaic or prescriptive. America does value as strengths: flexibility, independence, individualism. The emphasis on diversity and on a liberal or broad education in college/uni is connected to these values.</p>

<p>In the aggregate , this may be the un-doing of America according to some citizens of the world, but so far there is a large enough variation of individuals pursuing their interests along the lines suitable to their various temperaments that we get what we need at the right time, so to speak.</p>

<p>In point of fact, IP, YOUR style and perspective are making a contribution the stew that is the USA. In the aggregate, the US benefits from all this variety by allowing individuals to follow a variety of paths. Being respectful and informed is the approach, more than prescriptive.</p>

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<p>It is OK to be curious but you often add in arrogance and rude behavior. Even if you don’t really care about how American attitudes affect your kid, you should care about common courtesies. Even you claim to want to be “elegant.” You need to stop acting like you don’t know why people get so upset with you and take a little time to FIGURE IT OUT. You don’t need to assimilate in the American culture but you should be respectful of it (since as you have pointed out it has been respectful of you). You should strive to do your BEST at asking questions in good faith.</p>

<p>If you can only give a mediocre effort to respectful intercourse with others on this board you should indeed stop posting and look elsewhere for the type of interaction you desire.</p>

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<p>I don’t think IP is necessarily typical. I have a good friend (Indian born, American now) who is a well respected well published med school professor. She takes yoga classes on the weekends and recently did a classical Indian dance performance as a birthday present for another friend.</p>

<p>BTW IP, don’t think that parents here are typical Americans - they aren’t.</p>

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<p>The HS my kids attend is 15% Asian, 15% Black, 3% Hispanic, 65% white. Wealthy suburban area that attracts many highly educated, high achieving people. Many Asian parents are immigrants, with feelings and attitudes that we might characterize as stereotypical. Their KIDS however are 100% American, regardless of where they were born. And the older they get, the more American they become. Their high school ECs become less reflective of their parents’ wishes/vaues and more reflective of whatever their peers and friends are doing. Their parents may or may not assimilate, but the kids absolutely do.</p>

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<p>^ … in my family I’d say it went this way</p>

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<li><p>My grandparents moved here when they were about 20 and dirt poor … worked their butts off and eventually owned their own businessed … and pretty much resisted assimulating a lot (spoke native language at home and socialized with folks from home) … and with their kids resited assimuation (a lot with the older kids and less with the younger ones). My grandparents were Greeks who lived in the US.</p></li>
<li><p>My parents and aunts and uncles became totally assimulated into the US culture however mainted very close ties to the Greek community including all being fluent in Greek … and almost all referred to themselves as Greek Americans.</p></li>
<li><p>My cousins, my sister, and I are almost all mutts (2 of 25 in this generation are 100% Greek) … so our generation was raised multi-culturally and totally as American … most still identify with our Greek roots and enjoy and practice some traditions (food and dancing for example) … and almost all refer to ourselves as American of Greek and “X” decent.</p></li>
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<p>And I believe I think this progression is pretty typical</p>

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<p>Curiosity to me implies a desire to learn from/about the topic/person, not to judge, but to help fill in missing pieces.</p>

<p>I ask a lot of questions in real life because I have a difficult time seeing from another perspective & because I don’t necessarily only pay attention to important details- I also give importance to things that others overlook. ( which can be a big disadvantage when I get distracted by side projects)</p>

<p>Perhaps IP is the same way as non- face to face interaction ( as on CC) can be harder than IRL because you only have words to communicate, not body language or facial expression.</p>

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<p>““If you can only give a mediocre effort to respectful intercourse with others””</p>

<p>As in, do you still respect each other in the morning after? :slight_smile: Sorry, just can’t help it…</p>

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<p>Actually, StillGreen, I was thinking it meant practicing 3+ hrs/day at it to be the absolute best.
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<p>Some EC !</p>

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<p>Given that my son fits in very well in school, I would say he is assimilated already.</p>

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<p>To me, this is not about college admissions. I would strongly discourage my son to work while in college, and not allow him to work before college at all. I got my first job at 24.</p>

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<p>Given that India has 1.2B people, and given that less than a thousand Indian students come to the USA each year for college, you can imagine how atypical Indian kids posting on CC are.</p>

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<p>mmm… rating going to PG,…</p>

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<p>While there is no one common Indian system, this is a general perspective.</p>

<p>In the Indian system, till grade 10, you study three languages, history, geography, physics, chemistry, biology, mathematics, and one optional subject (which could be anything). In grades 11-12 you split into three disciplines - science, arts, or commerce. The kids in the science discipline study 2 languages, physics, chemistry, mathematics, and one optional subject (which can be anything related to math/science). Not sure what the other two disciplines study.</p>

<p>Engineers are overrepresented in the Indian immigrant community, but that doesn’t mean Indians in India are all engineers. Far from it actually.</p>

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<p>Eat, drink, travel etc.</p>