What do we "owe" our parents? What do our kids "owe" us?

Parent Cafe
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Thanks, all, for sharing.

Maybe the words “owe” and “obligation” are too strong? But at the same time, I think that’s how I felt about caring for me mom. I loved her, and she raised me. I definitely wouldn’t have let her NOT be taken care of. That’s just what we do in my family. Is there a softer word than obligation? Duty? Commitment?

I have a friend who has/had a fraught relationship with her parents, who are divorced. She is an only child. I don’t think either of her parents recognize how hard she is working on their behalf, physically, emotionally and financially. She is resentful, but who else will care for them if she doesn’t? It truly feels like an obligation, a burden.

In terms of the next generation, my friend’s story sounds almost identical to @deb922’s only more long distance. The whole thing blew up when she tried to arrange a family weekend to celebrate her dh’s milestone event. She is so disappointed that making a trip to their area is described as such a burden by her ds and DIL. She gets that people have limited time off and flying with kids is difficult, which is why she offered to fly everyone to their side of the country. That idea was rejected. My friend travels three or four times a year to see them, but recently she got a scathing email from her DIL that mentioned how she hosts her in-laws so much more than her local friends do. Of course, my thought was that maybe those friends travel to see their in-laws once in a while. :face_with_raised_eyebrow: So, they can’t make it to her house, but they also resent having her come to them? They seem to get along when they are together, but traveling to my friend’s home is some line in the sand that can’t be crossed. They fly other places so it’s not that.

I don’t think a three-day celebration this one time is an unreasonable ask, but all she is getting is pushback, plus a long email with bullet points. I’m just sad on her behalf.

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Choice. (That’s what I told my dad when he shared his feelings about “having” to help his parents. I tried to help him understand that it was a choice, one he made freely because he felt that it was the right thing to do.)

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I think choice is a good word. I took care of my dad when he was in hospice. It was short term and relatively easy (though stressful at least in part due to my mom plus just everything else) and I was happy to do it. He was vocally grateful. My mother is more of a burden, partially due to cognitive decline and partially just because it’s a longer term issue, and while I’m long over what happened in my childhood, there is plenty there to make me resentful if I wanted to focus on it (which I don’t). But we had a good relationship in adulthood and she too is grateful for what I do for her. She has no big demands and while she’s not really happy with the decisions I’ve made for my own sanity (mainly assisted living rather than keeping her at home) she accepts them. I’m an oldest daughter and I have always joked (though it’s not really a joke) that if we oldest daughters see something isn’t getting done we step in. I was like that at work too. My sibling feels/felt no obligations toward our parents beyond a weekly phone call. A few times when I’ve asked for specific help over the years they have stepped up. They don’t live locally and I do. I might have felt differently too had I not lived locally. I don’t know. My parents were very helpful when my daughter was small but I don’t really see it as a quid pro quo. My dad made sure his mother was taken care of and included in holidays for many many years (she lived forever with health issues and later dementia) although he cared not a whit about her (with good reason). I grew up with that example. If I don’t take care of my mom who will? I will not provide long term personal care and I will not sacrifice my financial future but otherwise I do what I can. My D22 has seen her grandparents take care of her and me take care of them and she is both aware of the obligations we feel toward family as well as the need to draw boundaries. I have neither fear that she’ll leave me to rot in my old age nor fear that she’ll derail her own life to take care of me. That seems a good balance to me.

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I think I owe my parents the same things that I feel my kids owe me. Basic humanity and compassion. Understanding that parents do their best while not always knowing what the right thing to do is at the time. Understanding that parents have their own stresses, worries and challenges, while trying to also deal with their childrens. Understanding and appreciating how difficult it was and still is, being a family. Giving grace for mistakes.

That’s what I’ve always done, at least. I think I understood that even as a child, giving grace and having compassion. It doesn’t seem like a big ask, though I don’t feel like I’m getting the same treatment from one of my kids. All that matters is himself, and the fantastical and evolving fiction that he’s come up with. None of us matter one bit to him. It’s hard to believe we deserve this, and we definitely didn’t model it.

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I feel like parents owe their kids unconditional love while they’re kids, as well as food, shelter, safety and an education. Once they are adults, everything else is by mutual choice.

Our kids have watched us care for my parents as they aged. Each of my siblings and I visited and had some caregiving roles. Everyone did what they were able. Because I was only working part time and not caring for gkids, I chose to take them to appts and telehealth because they were unreliable historians and my sibs thought driving them to & from appts was enough.

My S and D both flew down from their respective places to be with us and my folks. It wasn’t expected but because they loved my folks.

I’m pretty sure we have more than enough assets to provide for good care for ourselves for the rest of our lives. We don’t want our kids to feel in any way obligated to help us financially. We are touched that each of them recently came to visit us, separately. (I think they were curious about our multiple recent trips to the ER for H this year and wanting to reassure themselves that we are still safe and OK living in our house—the visit did much to allay their concerns and we were able to take them to some nice meals and have some nice chats—also introduced S to our CPA, since he will be our financial POA.)

When we are unable to care for ourselves, I’m thinking we will likely move into a family care home in/near our neighborhood. We have been told of a very nice one (if it’s still in operation by the time we/I need it. If not, we will look for another. I like the idea of a smaller setting instead of a larger more institutional type of setting with communal/family style dining. I really don’t want our kids derailing their lives or jeopardizing their health by taking care of us. (No objection for them participating in medical appointments as they may desire.)

Our kids visit with us when they are able (several times/year) and we visit them. We are always very happy when our schedules mesh but we don’t expect it & don’t do guilt trips. They are happy to visit their friends and cousins when they visit us as well.

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I also think choice is a good word.

When my step-father was in hospice the second time, I was the only person to visit him. He’d been to hospice earlier for about two weeks, outlived that facility’s time allowed and was sent back home. He received in-home hospice for a couple of months, before he was sent to hospice at the VA hospital. My mother was unable to emotionally bear visiting him in such a state and my siblings lived out of town.

It was difficult for me to visit him for long periods of time. I was the primary caregiver of my children. My wife had a new job out of town and was gone from 6am-7pm. I had one child in elementary, another who had just started elementary school, and the youngest was with me all day. I worked a job a few hours overnight while the kids slept to supplement my passive income, and would try to take a nap for a couple of hours while 2 of my kids were in school. Once I picked up the kids from school, I had 3 kids with me and it was sort of impossible to visit my dying step-father with them. I was perpetually fatigued, averaging 5 hrs sleep a day, 3.5-4hrs at night and .75-1.5hrs if time permitted between school drop-off and pick-up.

One day, a friend who ran an in-home daycare offered to watch my youngest while the other two were in school. I had arranged it because I needed to attend to some things with a house I was renovating, but it turned out I did not need to do those things that day. An MCU movie had just been released and I decided I’d splurge (money wise and time wise) on giving myself permission to enjoy watching a movie, then wile away the day by going to bookstores and relaxing before picking up all three kids.

But all morning, I felt an obligation to go see my step-father in hospice. I did not visit every day and it had been about 2 days since anyone visited him. From predawn to dropping my youngest off with my friend, I pushed my step-father out of my mind and looked forward to the movie. I started driving to the movie theather, changed direction, and decided to pop in the hospice to see him for a quick visit before going to the movie.

He was out of it when I arrived, so I sat and read for a while. Just as I as getting ready to leave for the movie he awoke. We talked a little and he fell back asleep. I was gathering my things when a nurse came in and my step-father awoke. A hospice worker also came in. The hospice worker talked with my step-father about his life. She asked him how many grandchildren he had. He mentioned my sister’s kid, my brother’s two kids, and my three kids. He said his favorite was my youngest, then he described all the reasons she was his favorite. I started crying. He told the hospice worker several reasons why he really liked being around me … then he died.

He was in hospice, so death was coming, but it seemed so sudden and out of them blue in that moment. I stayed until it was time to pick up my children, then visited my mother and told her he was dead.

I think back on that day every so often. I really needed that day to myself. I was burning the candle on all three ends and really needed some time to myself. But listening to the hospice worker gently and expertly take my step-father into his memories, listening to him speak of his love for my youngest, and holding his hand as he died, was far better for me than any movie could have been.

When I decided to visit my step-father that morning, it was out of obligation to him. But I also made the right choice for ME that morning.

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I had a difficult relationship with my mother for most of my life. I could write a book and probably fund a therapist’s beach house. Over the decades, I’ve successfully compartmentalized it in my brain and resolved it as she did the best she could - after being raised by very strict and cold parents herself. She is no longer here and I feel like I have mostly forgiven but not forgotten.

As a result, I did not feel obligated to do more than make sure she was comfortable in her later years. She chose the family of the man she remarried when I was 12 and my sister and I were an afterthought. She chose to live the last years of her life near my stepfather’s kids, so they could be a family, on the opposite side of the country, away from her grandkids. She made that choice in secret, behind the backs of my sister and me - not telling us until their house and been sold and the moving truck packed. There’s much more that happened in conjunction with that secret move, but it would be a 2nd book. When she left, I let go of any small pieces of guilt that I might have had left and released any obligations I had. I always cringe when people make blanket statements about loving and caring for parents unconditionally. No one knows another person’s story. My MIL, for instance, cannot get over the fact that I had a distant relationship with my mother.

All of this to say that I think my experience made me a pretty darn good mother. I made a promise to myself that I wouldn’t project the trauma onto my own kids. They are aware of difficulties of my childhood, and they experienced some of it as grandchildren. I’m lucky that my kids live in my city and I see them often. They want to see me, and I take that as the biggest compliment as a parent. I don’t insert myself, nag or hover. I always try to say “yes” when they ask me to do something for them. I’ve never discussed any expectations for my own long-term care or their responsibilities in that regard. I wouldn’t want to be a burden to them or expect to be moved into one of their homes or cared for by them. I don’t doubt that they love me and will be active participants in long-term care decisions.

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Wednesday my husband is driving about 6 hours one way to see an uncle who apparently has developed dementia and is visiting with his wife and two daughters.

He decided that he will visit his mother “on the way” which is about 2 1/2 hours not on the way. But he is going to be sort of in the area so he is going. He is hoping this time, she will be awake. Last time, she was not, and he “saw” her but that was all.

We live about a 6 hour drive away, but he does get up there to help the local sibling when she is traveling. This happens about 4-5 times a year.

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I do want to say since I’m the one who has painfully pointed out about my situation.

Just because my children don’t live in my area. Just because they don’t travel to me. Just because my relationship with my mom was complicated. Just because I had to place boundaries with my sibling (that’s a whole book in itself). Feel free to add any other situations to this.

It doesn’t mean I wasn’t a good mother. Or a good daughter.

It’s not a popularity contest.

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Yes, 100%!!!

Sometimes this can feel like the whole working mom/stay at home judgmental cr*p.

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gotten judgy comments about our D living in a different state. It has zero to do with our relationship and 100% to do with her career opportunities…which we fully support. And we did the same, as did our parents, and my grand parents.

And I’ve complained on other threads about how much grief I got for “not doing enough” for my parents from people who had zero idea about what was actually going on and how much I was doing. No, I was not going to move my parents into my house, disrupt my marriage and expose my daughter first hand to her grandfather’s alcoholism and verbal abuse. Hard no! But I did go to their house every other day for 10 YEARS, did my mom’s personal care until I finally broke down and my dad agreed to pay for caregivers to come in for that, dropped everything if there was a medical emergency, arranged caregivers when I was eventually allowed, and managed all the medical decisions once my mom was moved to memory care.

I admit that if I had been older when my mom got sick and D had been launched, I may have made different decisions but she was 8 when my mom became symptomatic and H was traveling a ton for work so I was single parenting it M-F.

I said in the other thread, we need to give each other a lot of grace and remember everyone’s situation is different and we all do the best we can at the time.

Sending extra big hugs your way Deb!

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My issue is that even though I love both my parents, I’m much closer to my father. I love to hang out with him. I feel I can be very honest here so I’ll admit that if it were just him everything would be easier. Throughout my life I just felt like I was never enough for my mom. She was critical and I couldn’t seek her support or advice. When I was diagnosed with cancer and my chemo was delayed, she called to tell me that the type I had tends to get in the brain. I didn’t see her until 4 months after my diagnosis and while I was in the midst of treatment - and we were the ones who travelled!

I see my parents often. I take my mom to doctors appointments. My parents go on vacations with us. They are here almost every Sunday. But I will not put my life on hold to care for her. I’ve been very clear about this. It’s time for them to go into a retirement community. I try to explain that right now she has choices. Without my dad she would be unable to care for herself and it isn’t my responsibility. There are multiple retirement communities within 15 minutes of my home that they can afford.

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My mom took care of dad before he passed away. It was a lot on her. My mom is actually quite self sufficient, except when she doesn’t feel well and when things don’t work in her apartment. The main thing is she does listen to me when I ask her to do things in a certain way, whereas I know my dad wouldn’t have.

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A comment that I find enraging is “you reap what you sow”. Often delivered with a pearl-clutching look of judgement/pity.

Yes, I know people who are narcissists, who raised kids who then follow that pattern to a T. But there are complex situations that friends/neighbors weigh in on when they don’t have a CLUE what transpired decades ago. And they should just keep their mouths shut. Raising children isn’t growing tomatoes on your deck. Sometimes you do everything right and you end up with a sub-optimal outcome.

Helps to mind your own business sometimes….

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I agree. Everyone has their own story. Present day, it’s very common for adult kids and parents to live states away. It says nothing about the quality of parenting or dictates the level of closeness between parents, kids & grandkids.

ETA: Further, everyone is entitled to decide the level of toxicity they will allow into their day-to-day lives and no one should judge that.

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And for immigrant families, it is very common to live an ocean away. That’s how it is.

Fifth generation Americans have no idea how complex it is navigating (no pun intended) the parent/child or grandparent/child relationships.

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I had a difficult relationship with my father because he felt like I owed him everything. When I started my first job, he expected me to live at home and give him most of my salaries to help out my siblings. It was the main reason I got married soon after college to get away from it. He was angry with me for a long time. Our relationship didn’t get better until my kids were born. He also felt entitled for his kids to give him money regularly (xmas & new year). Whenever we went out for dinner or go on vacation, we were expected to pay. There was never any joy of giving of free will. It is something I try to do differently with my kids. I don’t have any expectations of them gifting me or paying for anything. I think we all try not to be our parents in some ways - always room for improvement.

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I see owe, and think – to my kid, everything I can. We want to always be a place where he feels welcome, loved, supported - a safe harbor! And to be that, I am willing to let him set the boundaries and expectations, which may not be the ones I would like but are ones I can live with.

And to my parents, it has changed over the years. While I don’t feel it is owed, my mom – last of our parents still alive – chose to live quite far away and doesn’t want to be a burden. Yet I do feel guilt when we don’t see each other or talk as much as I feel we “should”. DS only talks to her if I initiate the call as she initiates no call. She is too old to travel.

So expectations- who makes them? Curious now as to whether we are all aligned on whether they are being met.

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This is a difficult question for me right now as I am helping one child who is struggling and am somewhat disappointed in my other child ( who is not). I do a lot for both of my kids ( H and I always have) and I am trying very hard right now to not ask for anything in return. One of mine is much more grateful and conscious of this than the other. It’s hard.

At age 69 ( and widowed last year) I am thinking very hard about my future. I do not want either of my kids to have to sacrifice their own lives to care for me. I am fortunate to have the financial resources, but it goes farther than that. I am currently preparing to downsize from my house to a rental apartment which will be a more sustainable lifestyle for me in the next several years. I have ( more than once) told my kids that I will not be a parent who refuses to be put in AL if/when I need that option. One of the greatest gifts my mother gave me and my siblings was to voluntarily go to AL after our dad died ( she was in early stage Alzheimer’s and was aware of that). I plan to do the same if need be.

I believe I was a good parent. I made my mistakes but I did the best I could with what I knew at the time. I’m hoping my kids can extend some grace to me.

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In my family we had dinner at my paternal grandparents on many Sundays which was great fun with 18 grandkids. Once I was in jr high my grandparents had moved in with one of my aunts and that stopped. After grandma died, grandpa moved in with us and other family members did not visit as often as he (and my dad) would have liked, but he did go to another family when we went on very rare vacations and to tour some colleges. My mom’s parents died before I was born. We had family holidays with both sides. Taking care of elderly parents was expected.

My DH’s family lived overseas and hardly saw the grandparents. His parents lived on the opposite coast and oveseas through most of my kid’s childhood. We traveled there about every other summer, spending time with them but also with other friends and family. We could afford it primarily because my DH traveled for work and accumulated mileage and we were ok staying with family. And they lived in a location that we liked to visit.

They moved to a retirement community that was not near any of their kids and his dad stayed there after his mom died, and then after his second wife died. Two kids lived far away, but the others were a long drive or a short flight away. IMHO, having been raised with the expectation of taking care of the parents, the in-state kids did not visit enough (had not been there in over a year, even though not working and with no kids at home).

I did not feel obligated to live near my parents, but it just happened to work out that way. As they aged, my sibling and I helped out as they lived in a senior citizen community. However, i did not agree (as they wanted) to provide a hot meal every night and they had to use the dining option (which while nutricious was not all that tasty).

I feel like we do owe our parents, assuming a normal relationship is possible, care and consideration as they age. I would not expect or want my kids to become a 24-7 caregiver. But if I have to go into a home, I would expect them to visit at times and to keep tabs otherwise that I am being well cared for. If I had to go into a nursing home, I would move to be close to one of them to make it easier.

We owe family and friends that are like family whatever support we can give. I have a friend going through a health issue who is not married and in addition to her kids, her closest friends have stepped up to help with rides and support. That has meant some lost work hours, but I have also had to say I couldn’t do certain things due to meetings etc. To me, that is what it means to be in community for those you love - you do what you can, but you don’t give up essential functions of your own life, work or family. It can be a tough balance.

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A few years ago we sold our house and downsized to an apartment near our only daughter. It is close enough that she can take the train to see us and we can drive or train to see her. She lives by herself in the city in a small apartment. We do “Dad-dash” runs where we bring her bulky items that it would be hard for her to shop for (no car). We also enjoy having her over for dinner (my husband loves to cook her favorite dishes that she does not make herself). However, when she does come she always says - I am not coming for the food or supplies, I come because I want to spend time with you.

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