What do we "owe" our parents? What do our kids "owe" us?

Parent Cafe
1

I’ve been thinking about posting about a situation that so many threads touch on, but I was never sure whether it made more sense in the no-contact thread or the caring for parents thread or the grandparents thread or Say It Here. I was encouraged to start a new thread.

As I did write on the no-contact thread, norms are changing. Part of me is proud that kids are setting boundaries and aren’t doing things just because they are expected, like so many of us did and do. But part of me is chapped that norms changed on our watch! lol

The particular issue that has me thinking is about grandkids, but you certainly can point to other areas where the same dynamic occurs. In my day, we jumped through all kinds of hoops to make sure our kids saw and had a relationship with their grandparents, even if they didn’t live near. I know multiple instances where kids don’t work as hard to make that happen. In particular, one friend’s grandkids rarely see her at her home on the other coast – one has never been there, and one has been there once in six years.

Truthfully, I don’t know how to think about that.

Because we were raised with these familial expectations, we are taking care of people who may not have been the best parents. Will the next generation do the same for us? I hope so.

Anyway, this is kind of a heavy topic, but I think a good one for our crowd as so many other threads touch on the issue of familial expectations.

7 Likes
2

I’m not sure anyone owes us anything.

I do admit to feeling very jealous when others talk about their children who live close or are able to visit.

I don’t think my kids need to visit us but if they wanted to, that would be nice.

My kid who has my grandchild who has never been to my house. They agreed to come after Christmas one year, canceled the day before. Last year I rented a cottage in an area we vacationed in, for a milestone birthday for my H, they didn’t even consider coming. One year my other kid invited them to her house for thanksgiving because her spouse was on call, they didn’t even consider coming.

I don’t think they are mad at us, I just think it’s not something they want to do.

This year I’ve rented a place in between my kids but a long drive from us in December. Because Christmas is for their house. With her mother.

They told us they don’t want anyone moving near them. Like I say, it’s sad but I try not to dwell.

19 Likes
3

I think this is a “how we live has changed” issue. Back when I was a kid I lived upstairs from my grandparents, so I saw them daily. This was true with the majority of my friends.

My friends and I all moved away to raise our families and tried to maintain family ties by visiting and hosting grandparents often. But we all moved less than 2 hours away so either person driving did not have a long journey to make (so there was no need for staying over or getting a hotel or taking a plane.)

My friends kids live all over the place, they have moved for jobs, for spouses, for education, etc. They are as far-flung as Taiwan, London, and all over the US. Travelling to see grandparents/grandchildren is much harder - the trip is costly, time consuming, and inconvenient. Although we may not like the idea, it is easier for a couple who are retired, empty nesters to drop everything to make a trip than it is for a family of 3 or more who have to balance jobs, kid’s schools, kid’s activities, precious little paid time off, and a tight budget due to housing costs being so high.

13 Likes
4

I think that expectations is a very loaded word. I don’t think that we (H & I ) expect anything of our kids, and they are in our lives in a way that works for them.

S, for example, has zero interest in meeting for brunch - he is a night owl, and breakfast food isn’t his thing. So we don’t plan family brunches for holidays - we do dinner. When we chose to have brunches for both my mom’s and my dad’s memorials, though, he willingly attended.

D & her H don’t come to visit us together at our cottage because their dog gets annoying in that particular environment - so SIL willingly stays home with the dog when D & GD visit our cottage. My MIL would have definitely had a cow if we did that, but our adult child has a right to do what’s best for her family.

My dad’s parents had very unrealistic expectations of their children, and my dad felt an obligation to comply. He resented them. My mom’s parents were the opposite, and my dad willingly & happily helped them. My parents didn’t say anything to us about the dynamics, but I certainly learned from what I observed.

H’s cousin has an extremely difficult relationship with her parents. I won’t go into detail, but I understand her choice to cut ties with her parents, who now need assisted living care. My MIL thinks it’s awful, saying that as the only child, the daughter has an obligation to care for her parents. H & the rest of his cousins are glad that the cousin is not ruining her family life to get involved with her parents’ issues. She deserves a happy life.

I have friends who expect their adult children to do what the parents and perhaps other siblings want, without regard to the fact that their adult children have their own thoughts about what they want from their lives. It’s not a rejection of the family, but rather an establishment of their own adult lives.

I don’t mean to make light of any truly heartbreaking adult-child issues. There are situations that are truly difficult (my cousin has a D who estranged herself/her family & they don’t know why). I’m talking about more run of the mill stuff. We just don’t have a right to expect our kids to be like us, want to do what we want to do, etc. And if they seem distant today, that may change as time goes on. Then again, it may not - my brother used to disappear from our family’s lives for chunks of time. The truth was that it was who he was, rather than any rejection of the family. As my mom was dying, she said that her kids weren’t necessarily what she expected, but they were who they were supposed to be.

As far as whether our kids will take care of us down the road, we all have our own expectations or hopes regarding that … and our kids will have their own response when the time comes.

8 Likes
5

I’ll be honest and say I think more about “what do we owe our children” - when they are children. And to me that means no matter your situation - parenting alone or with another, money plentiful or money tight) - love and security and basic needs (basic needs does not mean private school or brand name clothing, lol) that the child doesn’t have to worry about where these things - love, security, basic needs - comes from.

Once we or they are adults I think “expectations” doesn’t come into play because most (not all) have the tools to secure those three things ourselves and to our own satisfaction. I would hope that grown children can provide at least the love and caring part - not the “needs” part so much. That is not always true though - sometimes love and caring are absent.

8 Likes
6

I’ve told my kids they owe me nothing. I don’t want them to take care of me if I’m in a mentally diminished capacity. If my body breaks down, I may still be able to be of service to my family through my knowledge and equanimity. But if my mental abilities are compromised, I would rather they put their energies into their lives than devote significant effort+money to my withering years.

When it comes to grandparents spending time with grandkids, one thing I’m a big believer in is “highways go both ways”. And flight paths too, for that matter. My mother drove us often to see her parents. Less often, but often enough, her parents drove to see us. Her parents took us on a few vacations, kept us for the summer, etc. If a grandparent (capable of doing so) never visits the grandkids, I think that sets the tone.

As for what do adult children owe parents? My feeling is adult children owe non-elderly parents almost nothing. For elderly parents unable to physically/financially care for themselves, I think that’s something for each adult child to decide. I don’t think there should be a social expectation or Social Belittling Squad to try to shame adult children who decide not to take on a task they think will drain them emotionally and/or financially. Every familial situation is different and no one knows what truly goes on in another family’s home.

EDIT: I owe my children everything, all the time, forever. Support, Understanding, Apologies, Advice, whatever money I have, whatever time they need, everything. For me, that’s just the way it’s always been. They did not ask to be here. It’s my job to take care of them and enable them in all ways, whether they are 2 or full grown adults living on their own.

16 Likes
7

I think it’s all well and good if you don’t expect any assistance as you get older. My mil is like that, fiercely independent. Her mom died when she was 10.

She’s 90 now. Still fiercely independent but unfortunately Father Time is undefeated. She needs a little help but is fighting.

I wish she’d let us do for her. Or admit that she needs to change some things to be independent. Because things change and times change.

8 Likes
8

I have a brother who never married, and I have a son who doesn’t think he’ll marry. They were discussing their fears of needing assistance down the road. I surprised myself with how quickly I told both of them that I would be there for them. It wasn’t something I had ever thought about, but at this point in my life, it’s something I can & would do.

10 Likes
9

I expect my kids to make sure I am well cared for when I am elderly and infirm. And to visit.

I think parents owe their kids unconditional love through their childhood years.

9 Likes
10

I think expectations and reality have to coincide with how things have changed. When I was growing up, my grandmother’s 13 children all lived within a 20 mile radius with 2 exceptions - and those 2 exceptions in those days meant they fell off the face of the earth. But the 11 that lived close, absolutely had expectations. It’s just a different world now that people are far. But I’ve seen so much struggle between what is easy for grandparents and what’s easy for parents with young children and will say if you’re making an effort - healthy families realize it. We are rapidly approaching the it’s absolutely impossible for grandparent to travel phase for our kids - and right now they acknowledge all the birthdays and swim meets and ballet performances their grandparents flew into and make an effort - I really hope they continue to remember that - as mobility is so very hard at different points of life. For us right now it’s not about expectations about how do we create the best environment for our future grand kids acknowledging the fact that they will probably need to travel and choose us as they can’t walk upstairs

3 Likes
11

I’m going to preface my answer by saying that I’m in my mid 50s, so a Gen Xer.

Growing up I lived near my grandparents until I was about 8. Then both sides moved to FL. I was closest to my maternal grandparents. They typically spent summers visiting and we would go see them during the school year twice/year. When I got to HS, I would go see them for a week on my own, visited during college and once I married took my family to visit them. My grandfather died when I was 34, my mom moved my grandmother to our town and she lived near me another 4 years in a continuous care community. I was able to visit regularly and often brought my daughter. They were the greatest, sweetest, most wonderful people and I adored the relationship I had with them. They were also incredibly good to me and visits were always super pleasant. It was also quite a blessing that my daughter had a great grandparent until she was 8 years old and still has some of her own memories. There was alcoholism and abuse on the paternal grandparent side so the relationship was very limited. When that grandmother died when I was 8, we barely saw my step grandfather after that and my father had zero regrets. No one from our family went to his funeral when he died 10 years later. (I guess my father who abhorred any boundary setting I did with him, did have good boundaries for himself!)

As newlyweds, we lived near my in-laws for the first few years of our marriage and then when we both moved to different states, they expected us to use our very limited vacation time, and very limited resources to fly to see them. Honestly it was a financial burden and we resented having to “waste” the vacation time when they were retired and had way way more disposable income to come to us.

By the time D was born we lived a drive away from my family for the first year and a flight away from the inlaws. We moved around a ton during her early years (three times in three years), and we were on a single income. In-laws had the same expectation, although this time we were needing to travel with a baby/toddler. It was maddening!

My parents moved to our state when D was 4 so she ended up very close to my parents who turned out to be excellent grandparents and they adored D. H’s mom died when D was 6 and after that when FIL remarried, he was much more flexible and it was very much a two way road for visits. D is also close to that grandfather and step grandmother and has even been to visit them on her own as a young adult. They are the only grands she has left as both my parents died when she was in college.

Fast forward to today - D lives a flight away. We typically see her every other month. In '26 she will have only been home twice - for a family graduation from the university in our town and she’ll be home for xmas. The other visits we have gone to her or met up somewhere fun. We pay for all her travel to us and feel like she’s already making a big effort using her vacation time to spend with us.

When my H retires (not for another 8-10 years) we have already talked about having a pied-a-terre near D so we can come and go without disrupting her household when we want. We’re praying that there will be grandchildren by then but we’ll see ; ). I do believe the grandchild/grandparent relationship can be an amazing thing and worth fostering and we’ll do whatever we can to make that convenient for our D.

Long range when we can no longer manage independently, we want to find a continuous care community near D where she can visit and keep tabs on us but without having to do any caregiving. I want her to stay our daughter, not our nurse.

I don’t think she owes us a darn thing. She didn’t ask to be born, didn’t get to pick us, and I feel blessed beyond belief to have a good relationship with her. Hopefully we can continue to be the kind of people she wants to talk to and spend time with because she wants to, not because she has to.

14 Likes
12

Expectations are the root of disappointment. DH’s parents had/have many expectations of their adult children, most of which I’ve viewed as unreasonable because neither of them has accepted that their children’s marriages, families, and work come, rightfully, first. DH’s siblings have suffered a lot of grief giving in to their parent’s unreasonable demands over the years with two divorces as a direct result. Early in our marriage, after a couple of what his parents viewed as serious offenses, I set very clear boundaries, bluntly telling them that they are considered simply as guests in our lives as they have no authority over me and no remaining authority over their married son whose first duty is to us/our marriage/his work (no children at the time). I was clear that we hoped they would attempt to behave as “welcome” guests, otherwise they would be facing a lot of unnecessary disappointment. They are narcissists; no one is close to them. They have no relationship at all with any of their grandchildren because they never made any attempt.

I have also posted that because I have no legal authority or agency over my elderly (divorced) parents who have not been legally declared incompetent, they are free to make their own decisions. I can advise if asked, but that’s it. I don’t intervene and don’t lose any sleep over any of their aging behavior or decisions, unwise as some may be. I do have a good relationship with both my mom and dad, but they run their own lives, and we don’t expect things of each other.

I have also shared in several places that our son, who is 40 years younger than we are, owes us nothing and has no obligation to or responsibility for his aging parents as we will be leaving just as he is getting into his prime, and he does not need to be encumbered with anything to do with our care. Our paperwork is all in order, he inherits everything, and there is enough money to shield him from our decline. We love him viscerally and enjoy whatever time we get with him and try to spoil him and his wife every minute we are together, but we make no demands.

So, my view is that no one “owes” anyone anything. How we chose to treat each other is based on love and choice, not obligation.

16 Likes
13

And you bring up a big player in the question - what to do when “the kids” want to help but the parent won’t accept the help or agree to compromises so the kids CAN help.

6 Likes
14

I think parents owe their kids unconditional love throughout their kids’ entire lives.

Otherwise, it is a kind of hard question for me because I had great parents and a great childhood. And a great relationship with my parents as an adult.

And all of my grandparents lived with 20 min of us so we saw then frequently when I was growing up. And as adults, my sibs and I lived in the same area so it did not require a lot of logistics (travel, hotel, vacation time, etc) for the family to get together. So it was easy for my family.

I didn’t feel obligated to go over to my parents for dinner - I wanted to go. I enjoyed being with them (but it wasn’t expected multiple times a week). Taking care of them in the 80s, I feel the same way.

My parents let us grow up to be adults. They didn’t tell us what we should do or criticize our decisions, demand our time, etc. Hence the good relationship.

Thinking out loud here…I guess I do feel like that, in general, we do owe our parents something. They, hopefully, did their best with the skills and resources they had. I guess it is a responsibility - just like we have some level of responsibility to others in our lives. It may be being civil and polite to the general public, collecting the mail for a neighbor who it out of town, taking food to a sick friend, etc. (Although I will say my brother (the eldest child) apparently does not feel any desire or obligation to see aging his parents.)

We will always be the parents of our children…and we will always the children of our parents. The love, care, and concern should go both directions. And just a reminder…our kids see how we treat our parents.

13 Likes
15

I think that’s the case for my child. He sees no obligation or desire to see us. If we go to visit them, they are gracious and welcoming. I think they find the act of travel to be very overwhelming and stressful. Which I accept. We do travel to them.

But oh my gosh, how I wish they would want to be more involved. Especially I wish that they had considered coming to my H’s milestone birthday celebration.

As far as our example, I feel that we treated our parents well, visited often. Tried to make relationships for our children to know their aunts and uncle and cousins. My niece and my daughter are besties, my niece stood up for her at her wedding. My daughter got together with her other cousins when they happened to find themselves in the same place.

But my son and his family, it never seems like they want to make an effort or appearance. It’s who they are. I guess you have to accept your children where they are.

13 Likes
16

I can’t edit my post. I think for a milestone birthday, you wouldn’t have to travel to your children. We did during Covid but I rented a place and asked other family members to join us at a place that’s special for our family.

I didn’t say anything to my son. But I was disappointed

10 Likes
17

Disappointment is a very valid feeling. You didn’t “expect” a different outcome, but you wished for it. That is understandable, and I think many of us can relate to that.

15 Likes
18

My mom always said she didn’t want to be a burden on anyone. She wasn’t. She had about a year of sharp decline and passed away at the age of 90.

At her funeral, my son said that she was a third parent to them, and that is true. She took care of them when we were working. She picked them up from the school bus and spent time with them until we came home from work.

She has been gone for almost two years, and my kids still often talk about her. Her great-granddaughter listens to stories about her. The first place my daughter went after she came home from her engagement was my mom’s grave, to tell her all about it and to leave her engagement flowers there.

I am trying to be as good a grandma as my mom was, but I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to. I watch my granddaughter a few days a week. My son told his wife, when they got married, that one nonnegotiable thing for him was that they would live near his family. Now my daughter is asking the same of her fiancé.

Nobody owes anyone anything, but we have to make decisions we can live with. Both my husband and I took care of our aging parents as well as we could. We are trying to make sure we can be financially independent for the rest of our lives and not be a burden on our kids—but who knows what the future will bring.

13 Likes
19

I do feel obligated to take care of my mother. I have 3 other siblings. They don’t live close to my mother. My sister likes to say, “I don’t want to feel obligated in doing anything for Ma. I do things for her because I want to.” If all of us only do what we want to do then who is going to do things for her that no one wants to do. My siblings do take advantage of me because I liver close to my mom. I take care a lot of her day to day stuff.
If my mom is to go to a nursing home someday, someone would still need to visit her and advocate for her. She ended up in an emergency room a few times last year. There was no way I could have left her there by herself. I don’t know what is obligation vs I just need to do it or no one else would. My brother will come into town when I am traveling, so my mom is never alone.

I live close to my daughters. When they met their significant others, they told the SOs that they wanted to live in NYC. I see them often, especially now one has two kids. We celebrate all major events together, birthdays, Mother’s Day, thanksgiving and Xmas, etc. We also go on few family vacations together. I don’t know if they feel obligated or they just feel it is the way to be. My siblings families also the same. They see their kids for most holidays and they go away on vacations with their adult kids. Every other year we will all go away together around xmas times.

When I get older and I can’t take care of myself, I wouldn’t necessarily expect my kids to take care of me , but I would expect them to make sure I am well taken care of, whether it’s at home or at a nursing home. Of course I am making sure I have enough savings to pay for it. I know they would come visit me.

8 Likes
20

I was my mother’s only child. There really was not anyone else to advocate for her. She and my dad divorced when I was very young. We got to a point where we had to sort of force her to move closer to us. We found her a nice apartment, bought the furniture she wanted, arranged movers, found her doctors, etc.

When her health severely declined, I was the one who went to the ED, and all doctors appointments with her. And when she was discharged to a rehab, I was her advocate, and visited every single day.

I don’t necessarily expect my kids to need to do what I did for my mom. I have my husband and three half sisters who I know will help me if needed. And I also hope to have the financial resources to hire help…if I need it for things like personal care, and safety.

Our kids have seen how we have helped our aging parents…I hope we have set a decent enough example.

9 Likes