What do you do when your student is failing and flailing?

Parents Forum
21

Thanks again, all. I’ve reached out to her high school therapist for some advice but have not heard back. Regarding professional help for dad and I before she comes home at Christmas, I know from experience we will probably not find anyone who can see us on such short notice. But will try.

I think that one of the most difficult things for us is knowing how severe things are and if they warrant something as drastic as forcing her to taking a leave of absence. I don’t know if your kids are still college age, but at least among the really bright and creative types my D is friends with (including those who are excelling at college), smoking weed is very normal and considered less dangerous than drinking. And she’s a kid who has ALWAYS pushed the boundaries and gone a bit too far with everything she’s done - it’s one of the things that makes her great when its applied to positive things. But she is extreme, so these behaviors might seem a lot crazier to you than to those of us who know her.

So while we are worried (and yes, my mom radar is telling me) that her old mental health issues have resurfaced and that she’s in danger of relapsing, there’s also the chance that she just got a little out of control and honestly is making an effort to get back on track and can do so. and that if she could persevere and succeed on her own, it would go a very long way towards ensuring a happy future for her.

I think that’s less likely, but it is possible. And if that’s the case, it would be awful to force her to come home. She will be miserable. She thinks of school as home now, she says. She’s not a kid who will feel relieved and comforted to be home. She’ll feel like a failure and hate us for insisting on this. I know, in some situations that wouldn’t matter… it’s just that we’re not 100% convinced things are that bad and it’s worth that misery for our entire family.

Thanks for listening and being a sounding board. It’s helpful just to sort of talk it through.

22

Good point about the ADD drugs, thanks. I hadn’t thought about that. She is on a new one this semester so perhaps that is the reason for the weight loss.

23

Do intervene and encourage professional help. Maybe even suggest daughter takes a semester off school, to regroup.

But I also want to comfort you with this*: your daughter’s problems, while serious, seem like ones she can address, work on, and eventually resolve. In other words: it could be a lot worse, mom, so chin up!

Approach your daughter with firmness, but also kindness, understanding and optimism.

Become her advocate but also her role model. If she sees that you’re serious, but also that YOU firmly believe she can turn things around, she will, too. The way a parent reacts to a crisis has a lot to do with how the child responds. Let her know that you understand that she’s suffering and has derailed a bit… but reassure her that with therapy, effort and time, she absolutely can get back on the right track.

In the meantime, tell yourself: my daughter isn’t a runaway; she’s not homeless, friendless or suicidal. She has help in me, her dad, and specialists we will encourage she seek.

In other words, she’s in good hands, and in a good place to start her recovery.

Hugs to you. Know many of us on CC have had similar experiences.

** I’m NOT a professional. Just a mom who’s been there.

24

It is not easy to know the right answer. In the abstract, it is easy to think you can bring a young adult kid home, or get them to work instead of be in school, or some other answer, but the reality is much more difficult. If she is not actually failing out, and has turned things around, being at school may be OK. If her grades are too bad, she may be required by the school to take time off or be placed on academic probation. The “in-between” can be most difficult - how bad is too bad to keep paying for college? Many kids that go to work at Big Coffee never quite get back to college, so that is not always effective either (if the goal is for the kid to get a college education before the parents retire).

Can you meet with her high school therapist as a family over the winter break? That may help her be more honest about what is going on and how she is feeling and on the partying. It may be that the pot smoking is not a problem, but may also be that she is doing so much of it that it is affecting her ability to do well at school.

You and your husband have to decide what you are willing to fund and what her responsibilities are. Do you care if she has a C average? Does she have a major?

I, too, am not a professional and agree you need to get some professional advice and perspective on this. But have somewhat been there/done that on dealing with kids struggling at school (but not for party reasons).

Good luck and hugs to all.

25

Another option is that many companies provide mental health outreach to their employees (and families), especially the big ones. I know my husband’s company has an 800 number to a mental health professional who will talk to you and connect you with providers for your specific situation, and really lend a sympathetic and supportive ear, as well. A lot of people don’t know their companies (not their insurance) offer this.

Relying on mental health providers who have not worked well for you in the past may not be the best option. It’s one of those things that nobody likes to talk about, but once people do start talking about it, they are often able to find much better resources from their friends, families, etc.

I wouldn’t necessarily say you need to go see a psychologist/psychiatrist before she gets home for winter break (don’t rush this step), but I do think you need to sit down and make a list of what’s working, what’s not working, what you think you can change on your own, what you expect her to change on her own, and what you need to work on together. Once you have that discussion with her, it may spark other discussions and prevent an adversarial showdown.

You are all on the same side here-you want her to grow up and lead a happy, healthy life. I don’t think you are “forcing” her to take a leave of absence if it is her behavior that is causing the bad grades and the mental and physical health issues. Don’t take that on yourself. If she is self-destructing at college, choosing not to continue to send her to a place that is bad for her is not wrong, in my opinion.

Your latest post sounds like you are either backtracking or doubting yourself. I think you need to have personal clarity on what’s ok for you and her, and what’s not ok. Otherwise you’re not going to be able to operate from a consistent position, and I think kids need that.

26

It’s never easy to figure that part out. But your mom’s heart already feels a line has been crossed, and you are worried you’ll make a mistake here. I encourage you to NOT think of college as a linear experience. Taking a leave is not necessarily drastic or catasteophic, it may just be the most cost-effective way to safeguard her degree. Can you afford for her to go 5 or 6 years? Can she sustain that trajectory with all these issues? Better to sit down and ask to see her grades, discuss the parts that are out of your control dispassionately (funding, her behaviors) and what you think are good options. She owes you money, also. She needs to write you a check, or set up an autodraft.

In our experience with ADHD in college, we also had this hopeful, let’s stay positive attitude and things only got worse and worse until it was nearly too late, in many ways. You don’t need to wait until the crisis to apply the brakes, I don’t think. Frame it as financial. Frame it as practicality. She will undoubtedly promise to do better – so make some plan that you can be more comfortable, she can be held accountable, and when she fails on her end, you’ll know what the plan requires next. I know you want her to be right, and be okay. But if she gets put on probation, it’s better to have talked about that, and what you will do. Come home, sort it out, take some online courses?

I know you feel guilty for thinking she is perhaps lying, or avoiding you. But you can’t make her choices – you can be the safety net. Hang on! Be her lighthouse, so she can find her way.

27

This sounds familiar,and I don’t know if you have posted in the past. If you did, I remember feeling that there was a strong sentiment, at that time, that she should come home, that some didn’t agree with at the time- the response was kind of mixed.

At the moment, on an online forum, I just want to focus on a practical issue, which is her grades- and money. I know a young woman whose eating disorder caused her grades to tank, she had loans, and ended up leaving with a large debt and nothing to show for it. After looking for work for a year, she finally landed a job at a Dollar Store at minimum wage, with loans of $60K to pay off. I know a few others too. Granted, you are providing more support financially for your daughter than her parents, but still, it is a serious situation to be failing classes while accumulating debt.

I think you could approach the idea of a withdrawal based on the practical need to preserve her transcript and avoid more loans. She may not care about the transcript now, but she will surely care about the loans. If she is seeing a counselor and is “in recovery”, she has rights under the Americans with Disabilities Act and might be able to secure a medical withdrawal that wipes the slate clean.

Eating disorders are often accompanied by or followed by a variety of “behaviors.” We don’t know her. Some of this exploration of identity may be healthy and may eventually resolve, along with closeness with you. She may find her own way to solutions, through self-help groups or therapy. Clearly she is hanging out with friends with whom she feels comfortable, whose own struggles make them understand hers, and that is not unhealthy either.

If you did post in the past, I remember not being able to tell if things were dire or not. In this case, the grades and the money issues are clear. The rest of it is not clear, and as others have said, none of us can really comment responsibly.

As parents of kids in their 20’s, a certain amount of intervention is needed but we all know that it is an art best practiced with some subtlety. You are in a position that demands a little more than that, I think, but it is still going to take some skill. Good luck!

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ps If she does withdraw, she does not need to come home necessarily, does she?

29

My 17 year old niece has suffered with anxiety and depression for several years now and only this past summer was also diagnosed with anorexia. They tried an out patient eating disorder facility with not much success so she is now in an in-patient facility in another state. While HS seniors are submitting college apps and waiting for acceptances my niece is trying to get better mentally and emotionally. Her college plans are on hold- she is not in the mindset to submit any college apps at this time. Her parents visit her weekly. She is also on medication for anxiety. College can be stressful and many mental health issues surface around the late teens and early 20s. Take care of your daughter’s mental health. Get a full psychiatric or neuropsychological work-up to clarify diagnosis and figure out what medications may be needed. A leave of absence from college may be in order. Hugs to you and your family. Keep strong and follow through. Best of luck.

30

@compmom - Can you elaborate on the need to preserve the transcript and the possible medical withdrawal? I’m not sure whether this is something we should be discussing or not. She’s into finals now, so the regular w/d period is over, of course. I THINK the situation is that she’s getting, in her 4 classes, an A, B, probably D and either a D or an F. I don’t really understand the way to think strategically about this. Can she withdraw from just the two classes she’s doing poorly in? or would she have to w/d from all 4? Would that be worth doing?

Or are you just suggesting she take time off NEXT semester? i.e a medical leave of absence…

I welcome anyone’s advice and knowledge about this, as I don’t really understand it.

31

^^ This is where I start to get grumpy and want to take you by the shoulders and shake you when you say stuff like “I’m not sure whether this is something we should be discussing or not.” I mean, c’mon!

I know you don’t understand it, but you NEED to get good at this.

32

Well, she could withdraw from the two classes she is not doing well in and get “W”'s.

If she is in recovery and seeing a counselor, it is possible she could get accommodations (for the future anyway). If at all appropriate- and I don’t know if it is- she could get a medical withdrawal now which would mean losing all her credits, yes, but a transcript without the D,F …or W’s. This requires documentation of course.

If she is in good enough shape to be on campus and not having active mental health issues or physical illness, the medical withdrawal would be tough. It is hard for me to tell from your post.

But she could look into a late withdrawal from those two classes. I don’t know her school’s policies. Some withdrawal deadlines concern refunds and whether or not a “W” appears on the record. Late withdrawal will not mean any refunds.

One of my kids withdrew from a class very late in the game. At first she had a “W” on her transcript but since it was due to a mental health issue, she did get that wiped off.

It helps to register with the disabilities office if she is dealing with recovery from drugs and has any mental health issues that are documented, for the future.

(My kid went to NYC during her medical leave and worked for a friend. It is really hard to tell from your post whether your daughter should leave or if she is starting to be on the mend.)

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@MotherOfDragons Well I am trying. I just called the dean’s office to look into it. I had never heard of it and didn’t know if it was something that applied to the situation, that is all I meant by that…

34

So sorry you are having such troubles.

Re academic completion for this semester - maybe she can get incompletes for the D and F classes, so that she may complete work and study properly for finals at a later date which doesn’t sound like it is happening now. A mere C is so much better than D or F. Medical withdrawal should be available at any time for major problems, but any of this needs to be discussed with professors/academic advisor/advising dean etc. types at the college asap.

In many colleges it is too easy to be adrift due to large size and freedom of the students. Students are afraid to go to advisor or dean. If I was a professor and someone was getting D or F, I would have called them to office and tried to see what to do. However, I am not, and for many (most?) it is up to the student to seek out prof/advisor etc.

Even at large schools there are advisors and deans who are there to help those who are struggling. Even during finals and at the last minute. However, the student needs to go to see them before the failure.

As to all the issues contributing to the situation, these are for professional helpers. I think that seeking counseling for someone with a history of ADHD, depression, eating disorder, and other areas you mentioned would give a safe sounding board for all the problems and changes that she is experiencing.

Good luck.

35

Most universities have some provision for temporarily withdrawing your attendance, and freezing your progress as long as you return within their specified timeframe. (In my son’s case, it had to be within 4 years). At his school, you cannot withdraw once you are put on probation, that was important to know. During the two semesters he was out, he took first one, then two online courses that we checked in advance would be transferable credits. His gpa was not (as some schools do) wiped clean or restarted. He lived at home, where we could provide life structure that he was clearly unable to provide himself at that point.

Some universities allow for a medical leave, I’m not sure how that is different. It is also possible that her D’s will still count as progress towards her degree, since not all schools consider that failling; clearly it impacts her GPA. You need permanent access to her grades as a condition of her living there, imho. I continue to caution that things, grade-wise, may be worse than you think.

This is her sophomore year? You have no reason to believe this trend of downward behavior and academic performance is going to stop, or improve. You know that, I can see that you do. It is hard to accept, but it isn’t something you did, or something you didn’t do. It is also not the end of the world at this point, just an all-too-common huge hole in the road.

You need to decide at what point you will ask her to return home to regroup – not as punishment, although she’ll see it that way – but as a path to completing a degree, if that is indeed what she wants. You can’t want that more than she does. Go to her school’s website, and read all about probation. How does it work? Can she withdraw from school while she’s on probation, or does she have to continue and do better? (If you wait until she’s on probation, and she can’t withdraw then, and she can’t pull her grades up, she is then dismissed from the school, period.) When and how is she eligible to be readmitted? What age will she be then, and would she be a different type of student (our school, once you are over 23, you are classed as an adult and policies about most everything varied) What would you do with her in the meantime?

36

Late withdrawal from individual classes can be requested as an accommodation for a disability like a mental illness, but accommodations are not retroactive (you can’t walk in now with documentation and request profs go back and re-test, re-grade, or re-do anything). But even a late withdrawal may show as a W on the transcript. W’s don’t impact GPA. I honestly don’t know if it looks worse to have W’s or a lot of gaps (semesters not enrolled) on the transcript.

Medical withdrawals usually entail the student completely leaving the institution and dropping all classes as the result of, well, a medical issue. Many times, there will be little record of the student’s attendance outside the fin aid office (loans taken out will still count toward the aggregate limit, etc.) Each school will have its own policies for handling these matters, but expect to have to provide proof from appropriate professionals. Also expect that she will need to sit out for a period of time before returning and may be asked to provide proof that the issue has been treated and the student can once again be successful. The school wants to do right by its students, but needs to protect itself as well. Medical leave can be used for any medical issue, physical or mental, but the bar for returning can’t be set higher for the student with the mental health diagnosis. Watch out for this.

One thing to keep in mind, your daughter would need to be a willing participant in any of these matters. She can register with the disabilities office, but you can’t make her use accommodations. If she doesn’t want to leave school, you’ll have a very difficult time getting her to actively participate in the medical leave process.

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I know of a few situations where the accommodation was actually retroactive, but it will vary. There needs to be medical documentation. Being in recovery counts, as does eating disorder or other psych. issues.

I think it is helpful if your daughter is willing to do a medical withdrawal from the school, which means losing the good grades along with the bad. Since she is in counseling, the counselor could advocate for her with the dean or whoever else would be involved.

I think W’s are preferable to D’s and F’s, but that is my opinion only.

A break from school does not have to mean returning home :slight_smile:

38

FYI Incompletes are only applicable if you are doing well in the class…I used them twice, once when I got pneumonia at the end of the semester and once when i was in a car accident.

It is probabaly too late for a regular Withdrawal (but check the school calendar).

A medical withdrawal maybe a possibility (but you would need to get a doctor involved).

Like other say, think long term. Is it better to save the GPA or same any possible credits she will get?

It is more important to have good physical and mental health rather than attending college in a linear fashion.

39

I sent you a message

40

I have mentioned this before, but in my experience you have to be passing a course WHEN you request an incomplete. You can’t just take an incomplete at the undergrad level because you happen to be failing. I know you think this is feasible, but it is not. NOT FEASIBLE.

As far as withdrawing and getting “W” on their transcripts we are well past the withdrawal date. Medical withdrawals are probably a whole nother matter.