What do you do with a 99th% GRE and not too much else?

Graduate School
1

<p>This will hopefully be the last wordy and whiny request for advice I ever post (sheepishly yet cheekily as always) on CC. </p>

<p>I am some combination of incapable of doing and unwilling to do non-intellectual work for the rest of my life. I don’t really want to address that deficiency in myself because the truth is the life model where you go to work, get it done, bring home the bacon, and live for the weekend does not work for me. Weekend joys (hobbies, family, friends, romance, exercise, food, etc) are unreliable and secondary sources of satisfaction for me, and if I am not going to spend a significant portion of my life working on some worthy intellectual project, I’d rather be dead. Period. I love you for trying but please don’t think you’re going to talk me out of that. </p>

<p>I realize my attitude is largely in the wrong place. I do have a therapist, but if you have advice more cogent than ‘get a better attitude, pea-brain!’ (reply: think I haven’t tried, dunce-bucket?), that’d be good. </p>

<p>I have been for years and am still disastrously indecisive about what sort of intellectual work I want to break into. </p>

<p>Pipe dream:
Try to fully explain and gain some traction for one of my (rather, but not entirely original) political ideas. They are: 1) operary communism, the goal of which is to more evenly share the fruit of our highly automated society by equitably dividing the boring, routine jobs (picking crops, sweeping floors, etc) among all citizens in a medium-sized community and thereby ensuring everyone has a chance to pursue things they really care about, and also maximally automating routine labor. 2) New System Confederation, where the fighting among political ideologies for control of nation-states that they’ll never get for a few years at a time (and thereby never get the opportunity to prove that their models work) gets replaced with a confederation of small-medium states organized by political ideology. I could do this by trying to get into a political science PhD program, or by holding a job to pay the bills and write flat out. </p>

<p>Reach goal:
Work in neuroscience research. I probably don’t have the stones to become a PI in today’s ultracompetitive climate, and indeed, I don’t consider myself to have the scientific insight to be a scientist who makes a major breakthrough. But I think I would make an excellent Watson to a Sherlock scientist- a competent technical assistant and, more importantly, a great conversationalist who represents the ‘steady, sane, obvious’ side in a dynamic from which they gain inspiration. The path to this, I suppose, is a PhD in Neuroscience (because it’s self-funded and degree inflation makes this degree the current prerequisite to a position as professional staff scientist under a PI). </p>

<p>Would settle for/find satisfactory:
Work as an engineer (floor or research) in automation. This verges into the type of work my brain will interpret as a ‘chore’, and thus I risk crashing and burning, but at least I can talk myself into the worthiness of the ultimate purpose, which is to destroy dull work and agitate for a 25-hr workweek society. (<a href=“http://www.strikemag.org/********-jobs/[/url]”>http://www.strikemag.org/********-jobs/&lt;/a&gt;) [replace stars with the dung of a male cow to successfully navigate to the link]. It will be a slog to get through a program- advanced math makes my brain hurt and my lack of experience or even, up til now, demonstrated interest will hurt my admission prospects. But I could start in a master’s program in mech or elec engineering, and potentially transition into a PhD program if I get attached to a cool lab. </p>

<p>Something I haven’t thought of?
I’m well aware I’m probably overlooking a lot. I’m willing to do any job or go to any program as long as I feel sure it’s pointing in the direction I want to go: making an intellectual contribution. </p>

<hr>

<p>Resume:
Big state school, class of 2011
B.S. in Neuroscience, magna cum laude (3.59)
B.Music in Composition, with distinction (3.85)
5-year orchestra performer, 3-year undergrad researcher in a control of movement lab
1 year of unemployment which I would struggle to make look good.
1 year in a job I hate and perform poorly at testing software.
(The last 2 years I’ve been addled with major depression and apathy and done calamitously little to strengthen myself as an applicant to anything, though there are a few little things.)
2014: GRE score of 169V, 166Q, 5.5AW
2013: Some bland software certifications, nothing applicable.
2012: Substitute teacher, 100-hour volunteer.
2011: Produced senior composition recital, presented honors research project
2009: Prize for musicology writing
2007: Prize for expository writing
2006: National Merit Finalist, National AP Scholar, 50-hour volunteer. </p>

<hr>

<p>Programs I’ve glanced at:
Michigan-Ann Arbor for Poli Sci or Neuro
Virginia Tech for Engineering
UVa for Poli Sci
Duke for Engineering
Duke for Neuro (they have now rejected me twice, once for REU and once in last year’s cycle)
UC Berkeley for Poli Sci (they would probably eat my upper middle class keister alive, but oh well) or Neuro
Pitt for Neuro
Washington (St. Louis) for Neuro
American for Poli Sci
Georgia Tech for Engineering
Boston University for Engineering</p>

<hr>

<p>Request:
If you were me, would you go for pipe dream, reach goal, or satisfice? What haven’t I thought of that you have? Want to call my attention to a program? Do you go there? Want to tell me I’m a loser, go away? Did you break into the intellectual caste? I’ll buy you a very nice dinner indeed if you tell me how you did it. </p>

<p>Any of the above, hit me. </p>

<p>I realize this is a bit of a selfish request, I can offer little in return. But hopefully some people enjoy giving advice for fun. I can read personal statements/etc, I do have a bit of an eye for detail and something of an ability to predict how messages will come across. I also think I give pretty decent advice myself if you’re in a pickle, though I don’t blame you if you have no idea how I could after reading this trainwreck.</p>

2

<p>None of the jobs/ideas you’ve listed require a PhD. Some might even be LESS feasible with a PhD attached to your name. For engineering work, you’d have to get some sort of engineering education, probably an MS. The most common people who get that kind of job tend to have done their undergrad work in engineering and either been recruited to be trained within a company, or gone to get an MS and applied for similar jobs. </p>

<p>To do the neuroscience work you’re thinking about, a PhD might hurt you. That kind of position would be more along the lines of a lab manager or a highly experienced, career technician. PhDs in experimental sciences are meant as training programs for researchers who will design their own experiments and lead a lab. In general, lab managers tend to have BS/MS degrees. If you want this kind of job, you’re already qualified. Be hired on as a tech, get a few years of solid experience under your belt and apply to be a lab manager. </p>

<p>Your pipe dream goals seem to be more of the “just do it” brand than something in academia. I doubt that it’d be desirable for an advisor to have a student that writes an entirely speculative thesis. Again, a PhD (in any field) is intended as a degree to train you in how to conduct research. No one can stop you from writing (and now publishing!) your own ideas, so… just do it.</p>

3

<p>My suggestion is to go for a neuroscience/biology program. You have excellent GRE scores and a good GPA and you should be able to get into a decent program if you have good LORs and research experience. I am not sure that engineering would be a wise choice simply because you would need to make up a lot of courses at the start and you say you are not confident in the mathematics. The only exception might be Biomedical Engineering but you have to see if that is appealing to you. With your software experience, you might be a good candidate for working in bioinformatics too.</p>

<p>In any case, if you go for a Ph.D. don’t settle for a field that is not exciting for you. You will have 4-5 years at a minimum in the program and if you are not passionate about it, it’s not going to work.</p>

<p>I also note that you have not been admitted to Duke. You can certainly shoot that high but your GPA is not at the level of making the initial triage in an ultra-competitive program. A less selective program should be delighted to have you as an applicant and all you need to do is to find a good advisor in the program to have a solid chance at a career after graduation. I have been at Illinois Tech for 30 years in the physics department and my Ph.D. students have done very well even though IIT is not one of the “elite” programs. So don’t get hung up on the top schools.</p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

4

<p>Thanks, rabbitstew, good stuff. </p>

<p>My thought about science was based on the fact that I spent a year applying for research science technician jobs with my bachelors, I applied to over 200, and didn’t even hear a single verbalized rejection. All ignores. I guess I could do an MS, but as a PhD student, I a) wouldn’t go backwards financially while in school b) would get a postdoctorate out of the program that would pivot nicely into a professional career once I’ve finally gotten it across I don’t even want to try for PI, and c) I have no network in science anymore, I have to rebuild it somehow. I do know that’s not what PhD programs were designed for, though, and I wish there were another way. </p>

<p>And yeah, to do what I want to do in a Poli Sci or Econ program would be just dumb, I was just looking for an excuse to make stimulating people talk to me, and a job. Drawing a blank on backup plans for getting those things.</p>

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<p>xraymancs, thanks very kindly! </p>

<p>You’re right that engineering would be a bit of a big do-over. I’m not even sure I would be admitted, and if I did, I’ve never demonstrated the hard-scrabbling indomitability I’d need to get caught up. </p>

<p>Thanks for the reality check regarding program competition. It means a lot coming from someone who is in the business and has mentored many. </p>

<p>I’ll certainly mull this over.</p>

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<p>You graduated at an unfortunate time and the field is never full of jobs for a B.S. holder.</p>

<p>As a backup plan, you can try to take advantage of your current state of employment to work on a part-time Masters at a local university.</p>

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<p>I sure as ******** did, xray.</p>

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<p>As it has been stated, engineering may constitute large amounts of additional coursework (and probably a fair-share of higher-level mathematics), but it sounds like you might feel some strong satisfaction from doing work on automation… although you listed it as your ‘settle for’ option, so perhaps not. </p>

<p>Other fields of engineering you may like to look into are brain-computer interfaces and human-machine interactions. Those fields could be considered somewhat along the lines of neuroscience and artificial intelligence.</p>

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<p>tes:</p>

<p>Duke is one the (rare?) schools that publishes data on grad applications.</p>

<p>[Duke</a> Graduate School: Statistics](<a href=“http://gradschool.duke.edu/about/stats.php]Duke”>http://gradschool.duke.edu/about/stats.php)</p>

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<p>@tesIII-</p>

<p>I’ve worked in the software field as an engineer and developer. Although it was a nice job for me, I suspect doing it for years would bore you to death. In fact, I think nearly every job would bore you, in time. </p>

<p>I have an extremely intelligent brother who ponders about things regarding the universe and Eastern and Western Philosophies in his spare time. Working 9 to 5 and looking forward to weekends would have been the death of him. Jobs that most people do, are just too repetitive and boring to him. </p>

<p>But he found his path in science. He paid his dues, got a Ph.D in molecular biology at an elite university, did his postdoc thing, and is now a staff scientist at a major university. The thing is nobody tells him what to do because he’s very smart. In fact, everyone leaves him alone, including his boss.</p>

<p>And whether or not it’s the weekend doesn’t matter. The weekends just mean fewer people will be in the building where he works:) When my very very young daughter asked him if kids are the only one’s who play, he responded with “I play everyday where I work. It’s fun.” He gets to come up with new ways to discover more of mother nature’s secrets. </p>

<p>So my point is that you seem to have some things in common with my brother. If so, it may be worth the extra time getting the preparation needed to go to a good graduate school for a science Ph,D. My dad and I always comment how my brother was meant to be a scientist. Any other job would have wasted his time and mind.</p>

<p>My 2 cents.</p>

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<p>Llak, I’ve been thinking that brain-machine or neurally-inspired movement technology engineering could be a way ‘in’ for me. You’re right that I’d have to spend some hard time making up missed requirements, but I’ll definitely throw in some applications looking at labs that do that. I think my background has prepared me well for it. I realize my dreams are largely a pie-in-the-sky thing, and engineering would be a very satisfying place for me to end up that <em>definitely</em> has job openings. Thanks for the thoughts! </p>

<p>blue- Very interesting, thanks. I’m right in the vital stats slot for Duke, but I imagine at least half of the 500 applicants they get are, so they are looking for people with sparkling research experience, and I acknowledge mine didn’t sparkle. It’s big of them to be so transparent in making that stuff available, it does a great service to those in our position. </p>

<p>nwcrazy, thanks for the inspiration. Good to know things worked out for someone similar, and he does sound similar. I know, I know, I just have to ‘apply myself’ and pay my dues. The question has long been ‘what slot do I drop them into’, and your answer is a good case for science.</p>

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<p>*I have an extremely intelligent brother who ponders about things regarding the universe and Eastern and Western Philosophies in his spare time. Working 9 to 5 and looking forward to weekends would have been the death of him. Jobs that most people do, are just too repetitive and boring to him. *</p>

<p>This is silly, and it comes with the assumption that there are no intellectual people working 9-to-5 jobs or that the only way to find intellectually stimulating jobs is to go into the academy. There are tons of people out there who work regular 40-50-hour-per-week jobs and enjoy pondering theoretical physics, or Western philosophy, or Shakesperean literature, in their own time.</p>

<p>What defines a good full-time academic scientist is not some nebulous personality quirks (because I know scientists who turn this into a 9-5 and are gone at 6 pm, and I know ones that burn the midnight oil), but a true passion for a particular area of science and the desire to discover more about that particular area. I’m betting that nwcrazy’s brother had a passion for a particular area of science that he wanted to investigate, and that’s why he decided to get the PhD, not simply because he wants to work all the time (which you can do in other jobs).</p>

<p>TesIII, you don’t seem to have a particular passion for any area of neuroscience - unless you just neglected to mention it in your original post. That’s why I’m skeptical about whether or not a PhD will fulfill you. Being “smart” is necessary, but not sufficient, for completing a PhD program and succeeding in an academic career. You have to have singular dedication to a particular area of inquiry.</p>

<p>You yourself assess yourself as more of a competent technical assistant. But PhD scientists have to be, more or less, the Sherlock. Of course, I know many PhD scientists who have more Watson tendencies/personalities, including want to leave to go pick up their kids from daycare or watch their soccer game. But when it comes to imagining innovative areas of inquiry and getting funding to do them, much less designing them so that they work, you do have to have a more Sherlock-esque mind.</p>

<p>(I’m also betting that if no one truly tells nwcrazy’s brother what to do, it is because he is productive. Being smart means nothing in science on its own; you must get grants and write papers. If you do that, only then will people truly leave you alone - especially as a staff scientist in a lab, where by definition you work on your boss’s research unless you’re able to get your own funding).</p>

<p>I also have to say that I work at an academic medical center and it’s pretty empty on the weekends.</p>

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<p>@juillet- The reality is that most people who think they are intelligent/intellectual aren’t as intelligent as they think they are…</p>

<p>They are considered intelligent by others LIKE THEM. They use others LIKE THEM as a point of reference. The fact is a very very very small % of the educated population is truly intelligent and ABOVE THE REST…in thought. I know…my brother is one of them. He’s literally the smartest person I’ve ever known. Not just intellectually, but in a Yoda-like way. EVERYONE who comes in contact with him (including fellow Ph.Ds from highly regarded universities) walk away feeling average. And they are, compared to him… It doesn’t matter what the discussions are about…sports, music, art, politics, sociology, religion, science…you name it. He knows and thinks about everything…because unlike the rest of us…he CAN. He has a special talent from birth. Believe me, most of us think about things superficially. But he’s able to grasp things to the point where he could actually change careers and take up another occupation (ie coach, options trader, chemist, mathematician, musician, writer, whatever…) without skipping a beat. THINK PRETENDER from the 90’s. It’s uncanny.</p>

<p>So my point was that anyone even close to his level of enlightenment would die from a 9 to 5 job. Seriously. It would be a total waste of time. See, my brother has totally redefined my definition of what intelligence is really about… So I don’t consider most people truly intelligent. Even after multiple degrees and a career working as an engineer and developer at large aerospace and software firms, I consider myself just average. And that includes all the people I’ve worked with…</p>

<p>If the original poster is even close to my brother’s zip code, I merely presented an option that will probably keep her engaged for the rest of her life. Because anything else would be boring for anyone truly intelligent, according to my definition.</p>

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<p>@juillet</p>

<p>BTW, the reason people leave my brother alone is because he is smart. And he has so many ideas he has to keep them under his hat.The other scientists who are well respected in their fields, struggle to come up with even the next step. How do I know? Because I’ve had numerous talks with him. Heck, one of his ideas was enough to co-found a biotech firm. His next idea may mean a treatment for a serious disease in as little as 3 or 4 years. Nothing is linear for him. He parallel processes like nobody else.</p>

<p>That is the truth. But I’ve said enough on this message board. In the spirit of anonymity I must stop. But I do wish the OP the best of luck.</p>

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<p>juillet,
“This is silly, and it comes with the assumption that there are no intellectual people working 9-to-5 jobs or that the only way to find intellectually stimulating jobs is to go into the academy. There are tons of people out there who work regular 40-50-hour-per-week jobs and enjoy pondering theoretical physics, or Western philosophy, or Shakesperean literature, in their own time.”
It seems, then, that I differ from them not in my tendency to ponder things, but in my preference for death over a functionary job (in a non-intellectual workplace. As I noted, a functionary job in an intellectual workplace would be stimulating enough to keep me alive.) So the question remains, how to escape the functionary fate? The competition to get out of it is intense and I know I’m not very competitive. But that doesn’t matter. I succeed or I’m dead. </p>

<p>“TesIII, you don’t seem to have a particular passion for any area of neuroscience”
Correct. I have spontaneous original thoughts about societies, institutions, languages, alphabets, and sound (music). I do actually have the odd spontaneous thought about neuroscience, due to three years of practice, but they aren’t high quality enough to be of value. That’s why the pipe dream is to be an entrepreneurial/visionary intellectual, and the fallback plan is to be a functionary worker in an intellectual workplace. I would do just fine in a PhD program because I could easily blend in with the other average PhD candidates who aren’t going to win a Nobel prize either, enjoy my work in the lab, and possibly even come to have real things I want to say about the subject. </p>

<p>But I know it’s just a poorly thought through plan, and not a very honest route through the PhD process. That is why I keep hoping there’s something I’ve overlooked, some obvious way I could be making a living applying myself to a discipline I think is important until I finally get out of my own head, become productive, have things to say, and say them.</p>

16

<p>This thread has gone to a weird place. I guess my take home messages are that 1. death is not actually preferable to some failures or a few hours of boredom and 2. you can find intelligent people and intellectually stimulating activities anywhere. Also, please don’t kill yourself.</p>

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<p>It’s not a few hours of boredom, it’s a lifetime of boredom. And the question no one can ever seem to answer is ‘Why not, exactly?’</p>

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<p>Well, from my 30+ years as a faculty member and researcher, I can tell you a few things that are absolutely true</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Anyone who is somewhat self-critical will have doubts and consider themselves a “fraud” from time to time. It is pretty normal and does not mean that one cannot do good science. One thing my father told me many years ago (he was an accomplished researcher) is that there is always someone who is smarter than you are. That is a fact and should not deter you from trying what you are passionate about.</p></li>
<li><p>A career in research can be extremely rewarding even without a Nobel prize. Most of us get into it because we genuinely enjoy research and that can be its own reward. The key is to get to the point where you don’t have to have constant affirmation of your worth as a researcher. It is easy to denigrate some research as merely “stamp collecting” but sometimes a field is advanced by incremental steps not giant leaps.</p></li>
<li><p>You don’t know how good you are going to be at research until you try it. It is pointless to pigeonhole yourself as one who can simply blend in and not make a real contribution. Most people who start graduate school, and even those who finish their Ph.D. are not mature researchers. There are only so many Richard Feynmans. You will develop the maturity as a researcher with time and experience, it never ends. </p></li>
<li><p>Sometimes it is a good idea to simply act and not overthink. It seems to me that you are in need of action here. So you did not get accepted at Duke. I did not get into Princeton and MIT did not offer me an Assistantship but I did get accepted by some strong programs and I have not regretted anything. Apply to schools you think you will be happy attending and take the best offer you get. As I said before, don’t get hung up on rankings. One of my former Ph.D. students is a chaired professor at a VERY well known university in the UK, he has not regretted coming to Illinois Tech. If you do decide to go for a Ph.D. don’t look back and put all your enthusiasm into it.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>I recommend bartending. The pay isn’t bad, it’s not 9-to-5, and you have all the time in the world for spontaneous original thoughts about anything you want.</p>

20

<p>Solidly made points, xray. Someday I’m going to have to set aside this foolish and destructive generational notion that if you don’t stand out, if you aren’t special, you’re worthless. I can’t quite do it today. And point #4 is very spot on, it’s sooo past time for me to stop overthinking. </p>

<p>skruz, it’s a thought. Problem: Though I fit the profile for a marginally alcoholic intellectual in every way, I am, for mysterious reasons, actually a near total tee-totaler and couldn’t mix a drink to save my life. I could learn but I imagine they prefer to hire people with at least a little experience.</p>