@zoosermom We have had some pretty contentious discussions on the sexual assault threads, but none of us have never lowered ourselves to attacking another poster’s child - either directly or by implication. My suggestion to you would be to refrain from participating if you feel you can’t abide by that tenet.
I didn’t attack your child. I complimented her and actually pointed out that her social behavior is exactly the type of behavior that will not lead to either assault or accusations. I pointed out to you that you were misplacing your daughter in this thread because attending formal occasions is not the same thing as sex by any measure. I asked the question, and it was a question, to see how you would clarify your perception of the difference. To be clear, I do not think that formal dresses equal sex and I suspect that you don’t either, but I am curious as to what you meant. Were you saying that attending public events that usually involve standards of behavior would prevent questions of consent? If so I agree with you.
I’m another overprotective mother of sons. I raised my boys to see violence against women as a societal problem that was their problem. We need to raise our sons to be the bystanders that intervene. I am pretty sure if we explain how to be appropriately intervening bystanders, they will get the message about consent in a positive way. ymmv.
Women have always been expected to deal with aggressive men. It doesn’t bother me my sons had to learn to deal with aggressive women. I talked with them a lot about being nice while making it clear you aren’t interested. I am pretty sure my straight sons were happy to have women, in whom they were interested, make the advances.
I have raised my son to always treat women with respect, but this audition was the first time he was ever treated without respect by women. I wouldn’t have been amused if he had conducted himself that way, but no one batted an eyelash when a group of young women acted badly. I recently had a conversation with my son about to help a female colleague who might be in trouble. I encouraged him to always help, but to do so by seeking professional assistance or making sure that there is a female witness present.
What exactly happened at this audition that you keep mentioning? And your question about sex was not about a line of discussion regarding good clean fun for college students. You said that you were advising your sons to seek romantic partners outside of college because of your fear that they would be the victims of false accusations. You opined that this was going to be a sad development for college females. @HarvestMoon1’s response was to point out that her daughter was going to many formals so on her campus at least, males and females were still socializing. Unless you meant that your sons were going off-campus for sex and suggesting that college women should be sad about that, then your comment was disrespectful to HarvestMoon and off base to the conversation.
To be honest, I worry that sons who are continually advised to fear false accusations from women may start to think about women very negatively. I think it might inculcate a sense of self righteousness in young men vis a vis women as well. I caution my son about this potential problem, but we talk a lot more about respecting women and the very real problem of sexual assault on college campuses and elsewhere.
Yes, female witnesses would be best. I’ve mentioned before that my third has carried drunken women home (with help from friends) and told me about it…but I told him never, ever do it alone…ever. At least when they were young (and under 21) they never wanted to call security or have the police see the women because then the woman would get MIPed. I did tell him even now that for the most part he and his friends are 21 still to not be alone if he’s helping a drunk (female) friend. I think though that by now very few of his (female) friends drink to total stupid drunken states. I think the thrill wears off pretty fast for kids that did not consume in high school. It’s all really pretty sad and these threads always make me sad.
No, my line of question was not about good clean fun on campus, that’s not the topic of this conversation, and exactly why I questioned HarvestMoon1 bringing her daughter into the topic. I don’t see them related at all. My intent was to question what wasn’t clear to me, thus the question mark. The offense taken had absolutely nothing to do with any point I was making, but if three people misunderstood me as attacking a young woman when I was, in fact, attempting to compliment her, then I obviously failed utterly in communicating my thoughts, and for that I do apologize. However, I will absolutely not apologize for an attack that I was emphatically not making.
I caution my son as I cautioned my daughters to only be in intimate or vulnerable positions with people with whom they have a relationship. I have actually known one young man who was sexually assaulted by another male in freshman year when they were both drunk. I know for an absolute fact that his parents didn’t warn him about that particular possibility.
One reason I’ve been trying to think about rape as a gender neutral issue (besides the fact that men are raped as well as women) is my discomfort with warning one sex about the other. Since one son is gay, I already had to figure out how to talk about a lot of sexual issues in a non gendered manner.
The first of these threads I read, years and years ago, when someone first started getting excited about the possibility of a false accusation, I really couldn’t relate, even though I am a huge worrier. I was worried they might get hit crossing the street; that in the event of a terrorist attack they knew where to get themselves and how to get there; that space debris might fall on their dorm, but I never ever worried about a false rape accusation.
crossposted with zm
adding: I have no reason to believe anywhere near the number of men is raped as women. I am not minimizing this problem. It is huge.
My son is not a traditional, macho guy, so I’m always aware that people who don’t conform to others’ expectations can find themselves in uncomfortable situations.
zoosermom: I don’t know if your son is interested in girls or boys or both or neither. And I don’t need to know. But on the off chance it may be useful: My gay son has always been the object of feminine desire. He had to figure out how to tell all the young women on his floor first semester that he was never going to be interested in them, in that way. (pastel clothes, highlighted locks, a womans watch, and rainbow pins on his backpack weren’t good enough clues evidently) That was difficult for him. He got through it. It became easier. Some of those young women are his best friends a decade later.
Thanks allh! He is straight, but a gentle, soft spoken, artistic guy with no mean or competitive bone in his body.
I would like to again apologize to harvestmoon1. I can see now why she was offended, and although I really was asking a question, I do understand that I didn’t post clearly and I hope she will consider accepting my apology.
Post 368 and resistance training.-
-I think resistance training is great no matter what gender or age you happen to be.
It builds awareness of possibly bad situations of all types (one on one encounters and large groups alike) and how to react in hypothetical scenarios.
Just rehearsing scenarios in your head can help kick in survival tactics if and when needed. Recognizing you’re in trouble is the first step.
I am a parent to both a girl and a boy. Obviously i worry about what my daughter will have to be careful of when she goes to college with stats indicating as many as 1 in every 5 girls suffer some form of sexual harassment, abuse or assault in college. she has had many a talk to be careful already.
I am also already starting to indoctrinate my son (who is coming of age) to keep his distance from girls at high school and college - it is simply not worth it being in a position where both might be drunk and the onus is on the guy to prove that there was consent if the girl decides otherwise. And then of course there are these events to further confuse concerned parents:
http://www.mindingthecampus.org/2015/06/did-mattress-girl-tell-the-truth-not-very-likely/
http://dailycaller.com/2016/01/08/lawsuit-uva-students-crush-on-a-friend-was-root-of-fake-rolling-stone-gang-rape-story/
not sure what else a parent is supposed to do but to talk to the kids.
Another thing the Canadian study did, besides training women to resist, was having them consider what, in their view, a good sexual interaction would be. What did they want? What did they not want? Once they knew what they wanted they were better able to steer themselves and their would-be partners in the direction they wanted to go.
The Canadian study data about survivors being more likely to experience another assault was independent of the experimental condition. They surveyed all the young women at the beginning and end of freshman year. IIRC, the women who said on the first survey that they’d been assaulted prior to college were six times more likely to say on the closing survey that they were assaulted during freshman year.
I think there are many other studies that support this. For example, from what I recall the much discussed Krebs survey also found that being a victim of sexual assault before college was an enormously important predictor of being a victim of sexual assault during college. This is even after controlling for alcohol use, going to fraternity parties, etc. People can certainly suggest some very interesting hypotheses to account for this that suit whatever their agenda is.
By the way - I seem to remember another related fact that should disturb all the parents here greatly… It depends on exactly how you model things, but with some more or less reasonable assumptions it turns out that according to these surveys the odds of a girl being sexually assaulted while in the last two years of high school (and presumably being under much closer parental supervision) are about the same as while she’s in college. Again, this is just what I recall, so I might be wrong.
Hanna, could you provide a link to the Canadian study you just referenced? And preferably one I can access without paying for it? Did the article linked by Cardinal Fang say that?