What do you think about Illegals getting instate tuition?

[zoosermom]

<p>Isn’t the whole reason employers prefer illegal immigrants the fact that they don’t have to deal with all the legalities – minimum wage, withholdings, etc.?</p>

[higherlead]

<p>“Out of curiousity, how many US citizens are illegal aliens? I’m guessing none.”</p>

<p>You (any person including an American citizen or an illegal alien living in America) can renounce your citizenship (US if you happen to be a US national or Lower Slobobian if you are a Lower Slobobian) but not your tax liability. A US citizen cannot renounce his tax liability because of US law while an illegal alien is not under the jurisdiction of the United States nor covered by the laws of the United States by virtue of the fact that he is here illegally. If he pays taxes it is at his own whim and if he leaves the country with a million dollars he is not covered by the tax law and its 10 year provision as a US citizen is. If he is really lucky and this numnut immigration bill is every passed he won’t even have to pay all his back taxes. Sweet! Wish the IRS would cut me a deal like that.</p>

<p>Sheesh and your going to teach Juan how to read? Granted my sentence was more confusing the way you chose to edit it.</p>

<p>BTW I know at least two US citizens who were illegal aliens in Greece. They worked there without work permits and took money under the table. So yes there are US citizens who are illegal aliens.</p>

[higherlead]

<p>“Somewhere between 66-75% of illegals file tax returns.”</p>

<p>How can you possibly know that conyat when nobody knows how many illegal aliens are actually in the country? I have seen numbers anywhere from 12 million on up to 23 million for Mexicans alone. The later was from a Mexican congressman who represnts Mexicans living in the US in the Mexican congress.</p>

<p>Talk about a selective use of factoids!</p>

[higherlead]

<p>BTW filing a tax return is not the same thing as paying taxes. Quite a few filers don’t make enough to actually owe taxes as the parent of many a college student knows.</p>

[conyat]

<p>

Granted my sentence was more confusing the way you chose to edit it.

</p>

<p>I was actually pointing out that you were taking a gratuitous dig at illegal aliens when it had nothing to do with your sentence…and was even nonsensical the way you phrased it. But you didn’t even notice, so eager were you to get in the gratuitous dig.</p>

<p>

BTW I know at least two US citizens who were illegal aliens in Greece…So yes there are US citizens who are illegal aliens.

</p>

<p>You were talking about illegal aliens here, not Greece.</p>

<p>

How can you possibly know that conyat when nobody knows how many illegal aliens are actually in the country?

</p>

<p>Well, if you don’t trust the numbers provided by your government, I don’t know what to tell you.</p>

<p>

BTW filing a tax return is not the same thing as paying taxes. Quite a few filers don’t make enough to actually owe taxes as the parent of many a college student knows.

</p>

<p>Tens of billions of dollars in income and social security taxes have been paid by illegal aliens.</p>

[zoosermom]

<p>“Tens of billions of dollars in income and social security taxes have been paid by illegal aliens.”</p>

<p>How much more than that would be paid out if they became legal?</p>

[higherlead]

<p>Why do I feel like somewhere a village is missing its idiot?</p>

[conyat]

<p><a href=“http://www.reason.org/commentaries/dalmia_20060501.shtml[/url]”>http://www.reason.org/commentaries/dalmia_20060501.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Zoosermom, probably more, because their earnings would be higher. But whether the government would be richer or poorer is another question, given that the illegal aliens who pay into the system aren’t entitled to the same benefits as citizens or legal residents.</p>

<p>

Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers.

</p>

<p>

What’s more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks. Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they’ll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the “earnings suspense file” — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus. The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year.

</p>

<p>50 billion a year from the suspense file alone. </p>

<p>

Why do I feel like somewhere a village is missing its idiot?

</p>

<p>Don’t panic, honey. Just keep braying and they’ll find you. Assuming they want you back.</p>

[ucsd_ucla_dad]

<ul>
<li>I have illegals knocking on my door every week seeking work. I don’t hire them but many of my neighbors do. They’re paid in cash (more than minimum wage) plus lunch typically. No taxes are witheld. </li>
<li>One of my next door neighbors had several of them working in their yard doing landscaping. They were paid in cash until a green border patrol van pulled up and hauled them all away in the middle of the job. I think it served mu neighbors right.</li>
<li>Several street corners around here (I’m talking about every area in the county) have dozens of them waiting for the pickup trucks to come by and offer them work. In most cases they’re paid in cash. Again, no witholding.</li>
<li>The illegals that live in the canyons around here pay no property taxes at all, pollute the area, and accidentally start brush fires with their illegal campfires. They’re also subject to crimes perpetrated on them since the bad guys know they often have large amounts of cash on them.</li>
<li>Many of the illegals living 5 families to a house around here aren’t paying any true accounting of indirect property taxes. They’re probably paying about a fifth of what a legal resident would pay in the same house.</li>
<li>Walk into an emergency room at any hospital around here and it’ll be filled with illegals seeking treatment - generally not true ‘emergency’ treatment and it’ll be gratis. We’ve actually been informed by the emergency departments before that if we have insurance we should go to an urgent care center for more expeditious care since most of the people ahead of us didn’t have that option (i.e. no insurance).</li>
<li>Most of the people I know of around here involved in fender-benders have been hit by illegals. Many of them really have little driving experience, no license, and no insurance. Those paying for their own insurance are left holding the bag with higher rates and paying the deductible.</li>
<li>Many illegals are under the radar enough that no one knows the true numbers - including our government.</li>
<li>Granted, San Diego is a border town adjacent to the most populous Mexican border town so the problems here are likely magnified but it’s starting to spread further than just the border towns as they seek employment in less saturated areas and other employers are seeking to take advantage of the cheaper, and often under the radar, workers.</li>
</ul>

<p>There are of course exceptions to the above. Some of the illegals are employed by firms that withold taxes. Some of them manage to enter the mainstream, often through forged documents, and have things like auto insurance. IMO the majority of them are pleasant, nice people simply trying to make a life for themselves in a land of opportunity since their own country is lacking in opportunities - usually because of their own ineffective governments. Regardless, this doesn’t justify allowing them to stay any more than it justifies opening the border and allowing any of the millions in Latin America, Asia, Eastern Europe, and everywhere else in. There’s no way the USA can absord them all. It doesn’t scale.</p>

<p>For those of you who are pro-illegal immigration and don’t mind the fact that generally many laws are broken on an ongoing basis by these people and if you actually think unmitigated immigration scales, well, I’m glad you’re so content.</p>

[zoosermom]

<p>Did you all hear about the fire here in New York that killed 11 people, most of them children? Heartbreaking. Thousands of people from all over the city lined up to pay respects, money was raised, lots of compassion. Anyway, the victims were members of two illegal immigrant families from Africa – polygamous in addition to everything else. Living in a tenement illegally, illegal conversions, the whole bit. Anyway, one of the fathers (not the owner of the building) filed today his intent to sue the city for not stopping him for housing his family that way ($100 million) and the fire department for not responding fast enough, different agencies. Really outrageous IMO. Flame away.</p>

[conyat]

<p>

No taxes are witheld.

</p>

<p>That doesn’t mean none are paid, though. According to the IRS, millions of illegal immigrants are using ITINs to pay the taxes that aren’t withheld.</p>

[zoosermom]

<p>Conyat, part of the reason I post about geographic differences is that I think my area is years behind other parts in the country in the number and ethnicity of the illegal immigrants in our area. It is still predominantly a dominican/chinese/african group here. For example, in my borough it is very much about liberians. Charles Taylor once lived here and we have a huge liberian community and have had to deal with a large number of people with hands amputated and raising money for prostheses and rehabilitation. It’s just different and we may face different challenges and thus come to differing opinions. The influx of Mexican/Guatemalan young men is very new here and I, for one, haven’t completely gotten a handle on it.</p>

[higherlead]

<p>“Don’t panic, honey. Just keep braying and they’ll find you. Assuming they want you back.”</p>

<p>What prompted that personal attack on me? Was it your “ideation” of me?</p>

<p>Yours 66-75% pay taxes number takes a relatively verifiable number - how many file (8 million) and divides it by the lowest estimated number of illegal aliens in the country - 12 million. However if there really are 20 million or more illegals in the country as many reputable researchers believe then you are talking 40% filing. How many of those filed returns actually show enough income to owe taxes?</p>

<p>It is kind of disingenuous to use the lowest estimate in your denominator while purportedly giving an estimated range don’t you think? Of course maybe you were just mislead by somebody with an agenda.</p>

[conyat]

<p>

It is kind of disingenuous to use the lowest estimate in your denominator while purportedly giving an estimated range don’t you think? Of course maybe you were just mislead by somebody with an agenda.

</p>

<p>That’s right, higherlead, they’re all ganging up on you. The Census Bureau, the INS, and everyone.</p>

<p>

the U.S. Census Bureau estimated 8.7 million illegal aliens were here in 2000, and immigration officials estimate that the illegal alien population grows by as many as 500,000 every year.

</p>

<p>

Government and academic estimates indicate there are nine to eleven million illegal aliens living in the United States. The Center for Immigration Studies estimated the illegal alien population at 10 million as of November 2004. FAIR [a group dedicated to stopping illegal immigration] estimates the illegal alien population to be from 11 to 13 million as of 2005. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates the 2005 population of illegal aliens at 12 million.

</p>

<p>

In the August 2001 issue of Demography, immigration researchers estimated the current total population of illegal aliens at 7.1 million…Also in August, a demographer at the Urban Institute issued an estimate that the illegal alien population was 8.5 million…

</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersb8ca[/url]”>http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersb8ca&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[higherlead]

<p>Here is one of those illegal aliens. Would you like to do a cost benefit analysis on him?</p>

<p><a href=“http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3178504.stm[/url]”>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3178504.stm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I will go with the numbers the folks on Wall Street think are correct and that is 18-20 million illegals - Bear Stearns researchers Robert Justich and Betty Ng.</p>

<p>And as long as you are citing the Pew Institute for your number of illegals we ought to look at what else they say.</p>

<p>“The number of “unauthorized migrants” (which includes some who have temporary permission to live in the US or those whose immigration status is unresolved), also has grown since legalization programs began in the mid-1980s, Pew reported last month: About 180,000 a year in the 1980s; 400,000 per year from 1990-1994; 575,000 per year from 1995-1999; and 850,000 per year from 2000-2005.”</p>

<p>The problem is getting much worse not better with the growth of legalization programs.</p>

<p>When we tote up costs consider for a moment that more Americans are killed by illegal aliens every day than are killed in Iraq.</p>

<p><a href=“http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103[/url]”>http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53103&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;