What Extra Curricular Activities (ECs) Top Schools REALLY want

mini · May 6, 2006, 5:33pm

“Mini…frankly, if the EC brings in money, it is doubly as good!”

Actually, triply good. The EC is good in itself, the EC is attached to an understanding of the real world and an ability to “swim” within it, and it makes a candidate a “no need” one.

I have never heard of a youthful candidate who has earned the entire cost of their education being rejected. Anywhere, ever. (I have known, or known of, maybe a half dozen. Unscientific sample of course, but I really do think it is on top of the EC list.

sjmom2329 · May 6, 2006, 5:40pm

What about high schools which ONLY provide the weighted GPA – any guesses about how colleges use this? Do they recalculate to determine an unweighted GPA?

taxguy · May 6, 2006, 6:00pm

Xiggi, I completely agree with you. Maximize the GPA at all costs…or at least almost all costs.

Soozievt, I can only say that I wish you were at the meeting. What I said really did shine through for the admitted applicants. Each time an applicant who got into a HYPS over another top student with even better SATS, it usually involved more passion and more relevent ECs.

Also, I should note that kids that applies using early decision also had an edge.

citygirlsmom · May 6, 2006, 6:01pm

“Taxguy, you mention that you aren’t sure why varsity sports may offer a particular student a nod for admissions. I am also familiar with employers who prefer to hire athletes and seek them out through college career centers. Athletes often have the ability to work with others toward a common goal and have learned how to relate to other people in a sincere fashion. They know the value of hard work and are often intrinsically motivated to get a job completed. In the real world these are essential skills that aren’t really taught in other settings. I suspect that some admissions people consider this set of skills to be an asset as well. In any community–whether a college campus or a workplace–communication skills, leadership and teamwork are essential. My experience has been that academic over-achievers very often do not have these people skills. I know this sounds like an over-generalization (and perhaps it is only that) and I don’t mean to offend anyone, but I do believe athletes bring unique skills to the table.”

This is the post and the OP that I referred to…its the colleges say,oh Varisty athlete, wow, they can do it!!!

if anyone read my post carefully, I was irked by the colleges for making assumptions about someone being an athelte over someone who was not, and that person who was not, not having the attribute they find so attractive in varisity atheltes

As well, there is the perception that none hs athletes don’t push themselves because they don’t train for 4 hours a day…well, many kids DO push themselves, do many many things, its just not as flashy or as regimented (by others i might add), but they do it for themselves and others, and have learned to manage what they want and need to do, without a pre-planned life.

if my take bothers people, sorry, but my Ds are at a “jock” school, where clubs, etc, take a back seat to sports, and kids that aren’t the jocks have few options, so they go to the outside world, where they learn as much if not more about teamwork, issues, etc.

Its the attitude I see here even that atheltes feel they are better than others because, gee, they train SOOO much…

And I find that tiresome

citygirlsmom · May 6, 2006, 6:08pm

From Polo’s post: I don’t think a person who has never played a sport in his life can have the same competitive nature, teamwork, leadership abilities, and dedication to a task than a true athlete can." by polo

This is EXACTLY the attitude that I find arrogant and judgemental and in fact snooty.

I think sports are very important, my Ds played soccer since they could walk, so do not assume anything

I am saying that for institutions to make assumptions about some because they did a sport is unfair, to those that played and those that didn’t

Competiteve: My D is in drama, just did a play, learned her lines in two days, had practices for hours a day, and was part of the prodcution only two weeks have getting the part, she audtions, she takes lessons, she works her $#)(* for something she loves

My other D is part of a citywide youth program where she has to run meetings of 20 people weekly, debate with civic leaders, organized programs, etc

She is aggressive, but compassionate, the other is a go getter, is artistic and rides horses, and if you don’t think that is hard and scary, be under 5’ ft tall and get rolled

So you can get those skills you feel are so exclusive to sports in many other arenas, and that post ilustrated my points exactly

calmom · May 6, 2006, 6:17pm

CGM, both of my kids are nonathletes and went to high schools without athletic programs, and both had no difficulty getting into top colleges. I don’t doubt that athletes have an advantage in admissions… but participation in other EC’s can give the same leg up.

I agree mostly with Taxguy’s post about the importance of focus in EC’s. I don’t think it necessarily has to tie in with the student’s intended college major, but I do think that the top colleges want to see long-term commitment, discipline and dedication to a few EC’s and that it a good idea to have a college application that somehow ties the EC’s and academic interests together through essays or recs. That doesn’t mean that they have to be the same – just that it makes more sense to have a package that seems to show consistency.

Keep in mind that colleges probably have a cynical attitude toward the possibilty of resume padding – so they are looking for an EC pattern that makes sense in the context of the academic picture being presented to them

fendrock · May 6, 2006, 6:32pm

Any sense of how adcoms view a long term commitment to ballet?

marny1 · May 6, 2006, 6:47pm

I like the way calmon said it- “that somehow ties the EC’s and academic interests together through essays or recs… just that it makes more sense to have a package that seems to show consistency”- D # 1 who is black belt in karate used the overall experience to also volunteer and teach karate to special ed kids and then when she was older got a paying job to teach karate. She wrote her college essays about being the only “girl” to test for a black belt. Her Karate experience also helped her get into a Leadership/ seminar at Barnard College. She did not do any team sport in HS. and she only did a few other activities in HS like Key Club and science club. For the arts kid a similar type “package” may be doing art work for the school paper, or volunteering to do art at a senior citizen center or to be an arts counselor at summer camp. It’s taking the activity and making it an important component of ones life. I think that is what the schools mean about passion and commitment. The kids that are presidents of 5 clubs and get involved with ALL the “cookie cutter activities” (my term)- class president- editor of paper-debate and are also in too many clubs and too many committees may come across as being insincere and mainly trying to impress the Admission Comm. Those are the kids that may not be faring as well in the admission process. I have always believed that the “Less is More” approach to college admissions is the better way to go. My family has been successful using this approach. And more importantly, it let my kids pursue the activities that they were truly interested in.

SBmom · May 6, 2006, 7:25pm

The problem is that many ECs do not really require time, passion, or talent. Sports (at the varsity, all league, all state level) require all of the above, which is why sports involvements are more generally well-regarded. polo’s example is good: nobody does that sort of punishing workout schedule unless they REALLY WANT to be there. And coaches don’t tend to carry deadweight players.

Of course, every EC has a subset of very passionate & talented kids-- for example, the kids who literally put together the school paper and live & breathe journalism-- but meanwhile many other kids limp through the same EC with little time, effort, or passion (though they still put “school newspaper 9.10.11.12” on their resume.)

I think the key is genuine passion and excitement, for whatever EC. If it is not an EC that inherently connotes “talent, time, passion,” then you need to make sure the way your kid presents it allows these qualities, and the depth of their involvement, to shine through.

bookworm · May 6, 2006, 8:27pm

Often times the depth comes thru in the letters of recommendation. #2 and #3 got into their top choice schools with ECs (not sports), where the #1, with perfect SATs, did not get into his top choice. He didn’t have an EC that displayed a time commitment like the other kids did.

citygirlsmom · May 6, 2006, 8:34pm

i just really feel that many kids have leadership, teamworking skills, dedication, work ethic, etc and not be on a sports team

But as you can see from some of the posters, they feel that those can only be found IF you play SPORTS

Some people thing that those without physical prowness can’t be all those things, and that is unfair and generalizing

And to assume that most players at that level are leaders, are organized, show teamwork is making a big assumption as well

Some kids don’t make the team who have great skill, have all the attributes, but get cut cause they don’t need three left footed mid fielders, that does not mean that the players on the team are better

I am not worried about my girls, their ecs show passion, commitment and all the other things some people only associate with sports…

citygirlsmom · May 6, 2006, 8:39pm

Something else to consider:

THere is a much higher incidence of binge drinking, smoking, sexual assualt, etc from college atheltes, most of which I would assume played Varsity sports

So, does this show they have all those great qualites to admired? Discipline, leadership, etc? Seems to not have carried for a great number into the college arena

epiphany · May 6, 2006, 8:53pm

CGM,
Regarding your posts #24 & 25…
I don’t know about “arrogant & snooty & judgmental,” but I definitely believe that the poster you referred to is guilty of a great deal of ignorance. This is not the first time I have seen such a statement made, on the part of a H.S. athlete (or parent of an athlete). I see it, & hear it, regularly, & often firsthand: “My S/D sacrificed so much because of sports.”

Excuse me?? People in a competitive performing art don’t sacrifice every bit as much? Now, my children aren’t figure skaters, but I’ll give this as an example: Dear mr. polo, just FYI, competitive figure skaters arise at dawn (before 5:30 in any time zone), & they do so year-round, not just when a particular sport is in season. They train, sacrifice, are raw & numb & injured much of the time. They sacrifice big time – socially, academically, & physically. Similarly, there are competitive dance forms that sacrifice almost as much, & include travel (just like h.s. varsity teams), training (minimum 5-6 days/week if you’re on the upper levels), & include team work. Sacrifice doesn’t begin to describe several of the activities that I can think of that combine arts with an athletic component. They just happen to be run by private organizations, therefore not connected specifically with a high school or other academic environment (& I might add that they therefore never get the “recognition” that h.s. sports do).

I will add that those who are heavily involved in other varieties of arts in group settings (drama, film, music) are required often to demonstrate a great deal of leadership, teamwork, and yes, “people” skills. Imagine that.

(Please!)

Some of you people truly don’t get out enough.

polo1A · May 6, 2006, 10:02pm

The problem is that it seems that some people on the boards equate an athlete with the prototype jock. You choose to ignore the athletes who play their sport, do well in school, AND do things outside of school. Why should I be PENALIZED for doing and commiting myself to something I love (sports)? True, there are other equally good EC’s, but in MY case, sports are what I most care about. I’m not debating that other EC’s cannot be equally as “productive” or beneficial to the development of a person, because I’m sure they can be. A person who truly LOVES their EC will show great passion for it and grow as a person. What I do see, and this is a big trend at my school (don’t know how it is at other places), is that the “overachievers” who are shooting for the top colleges and don’t play sports do only “cookie-cutter” EC’s. These kids volunteer only b/c they think it’ll help their college app. On the other hand, the kids who play water polo, run track, play football, play basketball, or do any other type of sport are doing it because they actually LOVE it, not just to add another line to their resume or college app.

And to epiphany and citygirlsmom, you seem to think that I “look down” on non-athletes, but how can you possibly know that about me just from reading ONE post of mine? You as parents should be a little bit more rational and open-minded. Just because you have a bias against athletes, you should not let it cloud your judgement.

SBmom · May 6, 2006, 10:33pm

CGM & epiphany,

I hope you did not take offense to my post. I hope I was clear: I believe that many, many other ECs, when done in a serious way, are just as good as sports at building character, showing commitment, teaching leadership, whatever. I was trying to say that it is easier to ‘fake’ many of the other ECs, with only cursory involvement. We all know the kids who are in a dozen clubs and none has taken more than 2 hours of their lives, total, with lunch-hour meetings.

Varsity sports are probably more generally seen as ‘evidence’ of stong committment because they are extremely hard to fake. People don’t sign up to swim 2 hrs a day for 4 years just ‘to look good.’ This does not mean involvement in sports is better for a kid or for a future leader/scholar than all the other things. It just means kids who don’t really care and don’t really try are able to join club after club… and thus it begins to dilute what ‘involvement’ in those clubs mean. OTOH an athlete who doesn’t care or try is cut.

If your kid is in debate, amnesty international, service club, or whatever, and they are truly passionate and they work at that activity, they will be getting every bit as much out of it as any sport. Clearly. But they will have to go the extra mile to show that they REALLY do the activity and really care about it, because clubs are full of people who just signed up and went twice.

PS My D is an athlete but her passionate love was music (choirs, madrigals, etc.) In fact her common app EC essay was about music, even though she was recruited. After Sports & Music there really weren’t many ECs other than employment. (Actually employment for $ gets my vote as absolute BEST EC.)

My Son is not likely to do athletics through HS, and his ECs are in politics, filmmaking, etc-- nothing organized at school. Hopefully he will present these loves in ways that show he is not a lightweight in these areas.

polo1A · May 6, 2006, 10:36pm

Don’t worry SBmom, it’s my posts they are criticizing.

SBmom · May 6, 2006, 10:42pm

Thanks, polo. I did not see anything offensive about your post.

BTW I was actually shocked when my D was filling out the common app and actually totalled up the hours she spent per week on her sport, in season. About 18! :eek:

polo1A · May 6, 2006, 10:50pm

What sport does your daughter play?

And yeah, when I was totalling up my hours I was surprised to see that I was spending about 15-20 hours a week playing polo. I wouldn’t have it any other way though. Hopefully I can play club or intramural next year at college.

soozievt · May 6, 2006, 10:54pm

You wrote:

"i just really feel that many kids have leadership, teamworking skills, dedication, work ethic, etc and not be on a sports team

But as you can see from some of the posters, they feel that those can only be found IF you play SPORTS"

I am not sure which posters you were referring to here. Did you read my post #13? I iimagine you did but I can’t see how you would think that I feel that those skills can only be found in athletes! I wrote that I don’t think sports are better ECs. I had also previously posted what adcoms want to see with ECs…and it isn’t the WHAT but it is the commitment over time, dedication, leadership or significant contributions achievements, and so on.These can be achieved in a great variety of EC pursuits. The skills that an athlete has that are attractive…be it commitment, teamwork, dedication, self discipline, passion, work ethic, time management, etc…can be found in many other heavy duty EC endeavors…

I don’t know how else to explain what I said but will repost the point because I am curious how you deducted that I would feel that the qualities or attributes that adcoms are looking for can ONLY be found through sports. I don’t feel that way at all. I even gave theater (which is what I think you are saying your child has done) as a good example.

Here is what I had written:
"I don’t think anyone is saying that athletic ECs are BETTER to have. I surely DO NOT think that at all. I also do not think you can just achieve those skills of collaboation, work ethic, determination, organization, self discipline, etc. ONLY through athletics. I think what Panhandlegal was discussing, and with which I agree, is that athletes have some attractive attributes that a college or employer might desire BEYOND athletic skill itself. Certain other skills and attributes are acquired when participating in varsity sports. HOWEVER, this doesn’t then follow that athletics are the only avenue to attain such characteristics that are appealing to adcoms or employers. MANY other ECs also involve utilizing such skills that can be applied in other settings. I think he was saying that even if an athlete is not gonna do the sport or is not recruited at a college, an adcom might view the EC in a positive light due to all that the EC involved and the skills the person might have acquired through that EC. But that SAME thing can be applied to many EC pursuits. I have a great article that lists all the skills that a theater person acquires that make them appealing to employers. I think the same would be said for adcoms. Even if the student never does theater at college, someone who was heavily engaged in theater production work would bring a set of skills that are considered attractive attributes that could be applied to other situations.

So, athletic ECs are not seen as “better” ECs than other ones. But they are seen as a good EC that nurtures a set of skills and attributes that may be attractive. But this same thing can be said for a myraid of signficant EC endeavors."

Notice I mentioned "significant’ ECs. I agree with SBMom about that as well. A sport is not like a club that meets for an hour per week. But certain ECs are very significant commitments over time…theater, newspaper, band/orchestra, dance, a job, and so on. Sports is one of these types.

Motherdear · May 6, 2006, 11:02pm

Since when is competitive figure skating not a sport? It’s in the Olympics…

What Extra Curricular Activities (ECs) Top Schools REALLY want

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