<p>hi suzievt- I guess “pursue” is an extreme word. I understand the mass mailing brochures, but what I don’t remember from my own college years were the letters from departmental chairs inviting him to look into their program. Things specifically directed at him- somehow they knew (probably from SAT or PSAT) what his major interest was and what his extracurriculars were. In some cases the materials were extemely individualized.</p>
<p>doubleplay, schools and companies are getting very clever in their marketing. They can send out targeted mailings that seem to be very personalized,but it fact is simply a marketing piece. Frankly, I find this to be annoying too.</p>
<p>It’s annoying because no other industry aggressively advertises, invites interest, pinpointing potential customers and directly contacting them, then refuses to sell the product. Can you imagine showing up at the local car dealership, advertising flyer in hand, and having them tell you they don’t want to sell you a car? (After having your mailbox stuffed with their brochures for months…)</p>
<p>I think ECs are all nonsense. Kids from my school got into Stanford, Georgetown, Chicago, Amherst, Williams with no ECs and only two had sports. My parents and I have learned that it’s all about the GPA, not even the SATs. I had 2230 SAT, perfect essay, all AP/honors courses and a 3.45 unweighted and great ECs - sports, huge community service, school government/officer, tutoring, and awards. Am a Dartmouth, GTown, Midd reject. My mom and I agree for my sibs, it’s all about the GPA. My poor brothers will get no rest. Mom says no more ECs, one sport and one other activity if they want it. I am just sorry that I bought into the “well rounded student” myth. Looking at my friends with no ECs who got into great colleges and had more time to rest, I feel like a fool. Don’t get me wrong, I have had a great HS experience, I am just exhausted and wish I had known that most of it made no difference. There are thousands of applicant with strong math/science/music/tennis. UC Berkeley and UCLA are full of them. My best friend is going to Dartmouth, perfect grades, one sport - that’s it - he didn’t even interview. Don’t overanalyze. It’s a c**pshoot.</p>
<p>Doubleplay: </p>
<p>You’ve seen the Chanel ads or the hype about Prada bags in fashion magazines? Part of the hype is that there is a 6 months- two years waiting list for the products. Exclusivity is the selling point. And yet, the amount of marketing that goes on is phenomenal.</p>
<p>Yep, I know we are off-topic, sorry-</p>
<p>TheGFG, what I have done in the past is to get the college roster and then google the freshmen with Name+Year+event (ex. “Joanie Jones”+2004+800). Sometimes you will have to put in their high school but I can usually dredge up enough info that I can find a trail . P.M. me an event and a college and I’ll try it for you. </p>
<p>Funny you should ask because I really have recently done this for a family friend who is at this late date at a school (hopefully) signing an NAIA scholarship for pole vaulting. I thought the kid would like the school and vice versa so I made the connect through a mutual friend after googling the school’s vaulters to get their heights as seniors. Keep your fingers crossed , she’s there TODAY. LOL.</p>
<p>
But Ginger, I hope you realize that there is a kid not a cyber block from you that is posting that they had a 2130, perfect essay, all ap/honors, and a 3.95 UW, and they have learned “it is all about the SAT”. And less than a block the other way is a kid who had the 3.95 great essays and EC’s all ap and honors and a 2230, and who hasn’t got such an easy suspect in his record to point to as the culprit. </p>
<p>The point some of us are trying to make is there could be nothing in your past that you can point to that is below the “standard” (whatever that is exactly, we can only guesstimate) of Super Select U and the result still be unfavorable, as harsh and frustrating and unscientific and admittedly unsatisfying and unfair as that may seem.</p>
<p>Doubleplay, I can understand how a personalized contact from the school and then a denial of admission would be difficult. My children had nobody from schools go out of their way to contact them. My kids made all the initial contacts with schools. While I understand how difficult that must have been, I think, as others are also saying, that one has to chalk it all up to marketing but to not count on anything unless one gets the admit letter. It is difficult. I have seen similarities in casting which one of my children is involved in. It isn’t a done deal until there is a contract. </p>
<p>Ginger, I agree with Curm in his notes to you. I don’ t think your efforts were for naught. You can point to X, Y, or Z as the reason you were not admitted or that you did X, Y, or Z for nothing. The fact of the matter is that you could do EVERYTHING right and still not get into schools that are highly selective. They can’t take everyone. There is an element of chance involved. However, if one feels that they ONLY must have elite schools, that is too bad. There are many many schools out there that are selective and very good that you could get into. If your eye is only on some of the MOST selective schools and only those will do, then it is a set up for disapointment. </p>
<p>Also, I do not believe that the kids who went to Stanford, Amherst or Williams had NO extracurriculars at all. You may not know everything they have accomplished. Already, the way you mention “only two had sports” leads me to believe you think a student has to have done sports to get into college…very very very untrue. I am sure the kids who got into those schools had what it took to get in. I’m also sure others who had what it took to get in were denied, as well. I know someone going to Stanford next year and she is a national champion in her sport. I doubt everyone going there has that qualification but surely anyone going there has more than just good grades and test scores. I interview students for a selective school and an entire section of the interview is devoted to their activities and summer experiences and so forth, and I KNOW the college cares about this area. At top schools, ECs are an area of consideration in admissions but are not the TOP factor. But when more students than can be admitted have the requisite scores and GPAs and ranks, OTHER factors set them apart…activities, essays, recs, etc. If you do not want to believe that ECs count at very selective schools, then don’t. But GPA and test scores alone won’t cut it. Too many students who are applying to elite schools have those things. You need them too but need other factors that set you apart from just another great grades/scores student. You can analyze who you know who got in and who did not but you TRULY do NOT have the full picture unless you read their applications…resumes, recs, essays, interview report…and even then until you had the full picture of the entire applicant pool and the needs of the college in terms of building a diverse freshman class.</p>
<p>TheGFG, I assume you know about Dyestat, <a href=“http://www.dyestat.com/[/url]”>http://www.dyestat.com/</a>. Lots of info there, including an active BB.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon, you are right. I guess I have to admit that I am quite frustrated by the process. After reading this week’s piece in the NY Times about double-depositing, my parents and I agree that if the colleges want to play their games, it seems only fair for applicants to play their own. I am angry that I played by the “rules”, did ECs, sports, comm service, gov’t, got the grades with all AP/honors classes, got no sleep and none of it seems to matter. The truth is, the kids who got into the best colleges from my school didn’t have ECs - I am not kidding. The kids who got into GTown, Princeton, Chicago, Penn, UVA, Amherst, Williams and Dartmouth had no ECs. They had super grades. 'nuff said on this subject!!</p>
<p>
This is a perfect example of what’s wrong with the original topic of this thread.</p>
<p>Ginger, I have to agree with curmudgeon here…it’s never “all about” one thing. The elite schools you mention make no bones about the kids that are competitive for their spots: Actually class rank higher than 10th %ile which, in most cases, translates to an UW GPA > 3.9, SAT >2300 or 2350, AND either a hook like being a URM or unbelievable nationally or regionally recognized ECs or something really special about the applicant: high level athlete, unbelievable artist, ultimate frisbee national frisbee champion or something the school desires or needs, like a first generation to college URM from Montana who fills a need for diversity.</p>
<p>So, no, it’s NOT “all about” GPA and it is certainly NOT a crapshoot. If you don’t have the class rank or GPA AND the SAT and the “something else”, your lottery ticket isn’t worth much. The sad thing is that no one communicates this fact to the students who have GPA/class rank of 20%, SAT of 2100, and the ton of ECs. There are plenty of the kids with all of the attributes I listed above who STILL don’t get in to these elite schools that they don’t need to admit the others.</p>
<p>Ginger, I can hear your anger and pain and I am sorry. I wish I could fix it. But like Susan said , you can’t be sure what these other folks put down as their EC’s. In an effort to help you see that they may have had a non-traditional EC , I am going to reprise my thoughts here. </p>
<p>A year and a half ago on this thread (it seems like that anyway;)) I posited that folks may be looking at EC’s wrong. Like the accomplishments always had to be world or olympic or national or state class. I suggested that wasn’t the case all of the time and my post went largely unnoticed and was drowned out by the call for “fancy stuff”. </p>
<p>What I posted was that kids don’t always have to have the big EC or the recognition. That what they need is an EC where they have done something, not prepared to do something -saw a need and filled it. Saw a problem and came up with a solution and an implementation of that solution. I even posited that my D’s major EC, as expressed by more than one college, was not her hundreds or thousands of hours in band, basketball, and tutoring but instead in her relatively short (120 hour) commitment to a local hospital, and , in fact, just a few hours of that commitment.</p>
<p>While serving at the hospital she was put in the position that she was the only Spanish speaker in a room with a surgical ICU patient who understood only Spanish. In fact it was her task to move him to his room. He awoke halfway down the hall and was incredibly frightened and my D had to do her best to calm him down and managed to come up with “Your family is on 4. We are going to 4.” or some such garbled Spanglish. The experience changed her. She thought about what that frightening vignette meant in the larger scheme of health care delivery, running up costs and causing needless pain.</p>
<p>She decided to suggest little clip on cards to clip on like their student helper badges that had simple phrases, “I will get the nurse.”, “It will be O.K.”, “The doctor will be here soon.” She took that idea and ran with it in her multicultural essay to Amherst about the caring face of “institutionalized cruelty” in a majority minority town. She took the same idea and used it in her essay about “How I became a Spanish minor”.</p>
<p>It was commented on by both adcoms at her selective acceptances (Yale and Amherst) , and (we both feel) formed the primary basis for her scholarship win at the school she is attending as their topic for panel discussion (8 on 1) was , and this is a complete paraphrase, “Discuss the writings of MLK ‘Letters From the Birmingham Jail’ and how you have incorporated them into your life.” (or at least that is how she chose to answer it. LOL. She was told she “hit it out of the park.” )</p>
<p>I am sorry that all I have is this anecdote to explain my kid’s acceptances in high stakes admissions, but folks- it’s a good anecdote and it’s current. I offer it for what it’s worth and I hope someone listens. </p>
<p>Could they have been blowing smoke? Sure, but I don’t think so.</p>
<p>Ginger, could you please tell us how you came up with this idea of what the “rules” were for Ivy admissions? Was this what someone told you, like a guidance counselor or your parents? Was it what you observed from successful applicants from your HS in past years? Did you read any books about college admissions or check school websites? I think it would be helpful for all of us to hear a real story of how and why a kid was misled in this way.</p>
<p>Just so you feel better, the lone admit from my son’s HS who got into coveted Princeton, had great test scores and GPA, but almost no EC’s. He rarely left his house, never attended social events, his only hobby was fantasy sports online, etc. He was not what you’d call well-rounded by our definition, so it was a bit of a surprise to us that he got in because we all thought the Ivies wanted well-rounded kids who can conduct themselves well in social situations. But on CC I’m reading about other models of an Ivy-worthy candidate such as the well-lopsided kid, the kid with a singular passion, etc. The public information about these real or perceived shifts in focus lags behind the change by the elite schools.</p>
<p>Now, that isn’t to say you should have gotten in, Ginger. Maybe you looked a little scattered and hadn’t gone into depth with any of your EC’s. And your GPA is low. But, as you say, you would have perhaps made adjustments if you had known the “rules” were not really rules at all.</p>
<p>To add to Curmudgeon’s post:</p>
<p>S2 explained in his apps (2) why he did not have any ECs to speak of: he was too busy taking high school and college classes. I am not in a good position to really judge how his essays came across (too biased!) but I am confident that his recs were superlative. </p>
<p>The point is that adcoms look at the whole package. And much of what they look at is not quantifiable. Curmudgeon’s D’s story (and what a story) cannot be quantified; not can colleges really use it to signal what they’re looking for in a student. But anybody reading Curmudgeon’s post would have to say “Wow!” Such a simple idea, not costing thousands of dollars, not necessitating access to fancy labs, but so, so useful.</p>
<p>And finally, I have always disliked the idea implied in the thread title, that students ought to do ECs so that they will more attractive to colleges. I prefer fitting the college to the kid rather than the kid to the college.</p>
<p>Cur:
Your D is just one amazing young lady.</p>
<p>When I sent my s to my brother one summer, I gave him a little notebook filled with survival French (his was not good enough). It had the usual, “My name is…” “Where is the metro station?” And to cope with his obstreperous girl cousin, I’d written in the French equivalent of “bug off.” According to S, that particular bit of French came in most handy. :)</p>
<p>for girls “bug off” comes in even handier ;)</p>
<p>SBmom: Very true, but I’ve got 2 guys. Girl cousin tortured my S by making fun of his American accent. :(</p>
<p>The problem is, learning french as I did from a bunch of 20 year old kids, I have a feeling that my version of “bug off” is not as tame as your “bug off!”</p>
<p>SBmom:</p>
<p>Well, I was a very well-brought up young lady. As Simone de Beauvoir would have put it, "une jeune fille bien rang</p>