<p>generalobserver, </p>
<p>Please do not some parents comments discourage you from visiting the parents forum. There are many of us who do not believe in an “artificial separation”. </p>
<p>Good ideas and comments are valid, worthy and always appreciated regardless of the age of the participant. It’s only in “artificial environments” - like schools - where such lines are drawn.</p>
<p>generalobserver, you probably have better computer manners than many of the parents who post here do. Our generation didn’t grow up learning this stuff.</p>
<p>Getting back to ECs, recommendations, evaluations, all that stuff- it kind of begs the question… I read a LOT about kids who have blossomed in college, especially those that weren’t the “popular, cool, mover and shaker” types in high school. Not that they weren’t capable of contributing a lot to high school life, but let’s face it, high school culture is different, quirky. A lot of kids who do have MUCH to contribute get pushed to the side (or push themselves to the side) because they don’t fit in with the artificial, superficial “rules” of high school acceptability. This falls over into participation in extracurriculars (too shy to run for office, too shy to get involved) and also teacher perception. It ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy- kid feels insecure, doesn’t raise hand much, feels like he/she is gonna say the wrong thing, etc., ends up with a crappy eval. Hence, lackluster school ECs, lackluster teacher recs and counselor recs.</p>
<p>Some of those same students would positively benefit from being in an LAC, but because they haven’t “made” themselves YET, they have a more difficult time getting in. Conversely, some of those students in high school that were the superstars- it was really because they were popular, pretty, in the right cliques, carried the right handbag- not because they are really all that.</p>
<p>I guess that’s where the sort of artificial “what should I do for ECs to get a good resume?” comes in.</p>
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Wow, that is certainly true! I also have noticed that certain kids are sort of “chosen” to be the superstars early on. I don’t mean academically, because each kid does that on his own. I am talking about students who hang around the counselors and principals, or who seem to need a lot of private time to chat with teachers. These kids seem to have academic and extracurricular opportunities offered to them that are not open to the general student population. Look at the end of the year awards nights and you can see that the same handful of students get awards over and over again. It is sort of a self-fulfilling prophesy.</p>
<p>It is easy to be drawn to gregarious people, but quiet people have much to offer too.</p>
<p>Well, I guess that my definition of good manners does not involve chastising one’s elders. I also think it’s good for people of all ages to participate, but I think there are limits. This is, after all, the “Parents Forum.”</p>
<p>That’s it for me – have a good day, everyone.</p>
<p>lkf, my son was once on a committee to plan community service for NHS, he found it SO difficult to get the kids to volunteer to come out when they did their once a quarter Habitat, or cleanup, or whatever. Not even the officers were helping. Finally he opened it up to anyone who wanted to help out, and went around asking kids in all his classes if they wanted to help, sort of “begging” I guess. Anyway, he said in the end, the thing he learned was that there were an awful lot of quiet people out there that are very hard working, very productive, and they just need someone to kind of “ask” them. The campus big wig kids were nowhere to be seen. I guess they didn’t think it worth their while because it was such a low profile event.</p>
<p>I think the “best” ECs are the ones a kid wants to do. If that’s reading books, inventing things with pipe cleaners, writing a play or whatever. I’m quite sure ad coms can pick up on laundry lists of activities that add up to very little in the end. A kid who follows his or her passions and writes an essay that says, “Here I am” is going to get in to a school that fits.</p>
<p>I agree about the part of pursuing ECs that interest you. But I’ve known kids who have done their own thing, been quiet and shy, had a job here and there, but were not competitive candidates for a lot of schools (other than the local public college).</p>
<p>I’m headed for Harvard and know that initiative and personal diversity is what carried my application. I was an officer in a variety of clubs (Model UN, NHS, Key Club, Business Profs of America) and founded an non-profit organization that offered SAT prep to disadvantaged students. You have to be unique and can’t be a cookie cutter student.</p>
<p>What exactly is personal diversity? Is it a medical condition? Possible a layman’s term for schizo-affective disorder?</p>
<p>I am not picking on you, but there ought to be a ten year ban on the use of the word diversity. It is the most overworked code word in the English language these days.</p>
<p>My suggestion is to stop worrying about what schools are looking for, and start thinking about what you are looking to get out of life. If the two coincide well and good. If they don’t do you really want to start a career as an obsequious little toady at 18?</p>
<p>" Agreed, and JohnR12, it’s likely that you had to have the right resources to facilitate the launch of such a non-profit, which are likely resources that not everyone has access to."</p>
<p>People’s ECs are assessed in terms of what resources they have.</p>
<p>A teen whose parent runs a nonprofit may have a relatively easy time starting a nonprofit themself. Indeed, the teen’s nonprofit may represent their parent’s work and passion, not the teen’s. (I’m not suggesting this is the case of the poster who started a nonprofit).</p>
<p>Meanwhile, a teen from a low income family in a depressed neighborhood may have had to do a lot of work to, for instance, start a school-wide charity event. Something that’s routine in a high income school may be difficult to do in a low income school where students equate community service with actions people take to avoid going to jail.</p>
<p>“I agree about the part of pursuing ECs that interest you. But I’ve known kids who have done their own thing, been quiet and shy, had a job here and there, but were not competitive candidates for a lot of schools (other than the local public college).”</p>
<p>The “do your own thing” works when students are passionate about their passions , their passions are something that would impress adcoms (being passionate about getting dates, lazying around or playing video games won’t impress colleges) and independent, creative and assertive in pursuing those passions. </p>
<p>The top colleges are looking for students who’ll keep active all of the hundreds of clubs and other ECs on campus – activities that students take charge of for the pure pleasure of being involved, not because of course requirements.</p>
<p>^ Yes. [I deleted my post due to its ambiguity. I’m sorry for the 30 second confusion I created.]</p>
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<p>I must admit that when I found CC, boy was I naive! My oldest D had just been admitted to H, and I had no idea that parents and their kids actually planned out their lives and ECs around what might get them into HYPS!</p>
<p>Like higherlead said, my D just lived her life and “passions” without a thought to H admissions, and I guess that turned out to be exactly what H wanted. (Whew!)</p>
<p>The unfortunate part is that now that I’ve learned so much from CC, I need to hold myself back from pressuring my next two kids to “do the right thing” for college admissions.</p>
<p>Bay, count me in as being naive as well because until I found CC, I also had not heard of planning out EC’s in relation to college admissions. My kids, like your D, just pursued what they wanted to do for activities without thinking of college admissions. I am positive that they’d do the very same things even if they never planned to go to college. Even IN college, they are doing many of the same things. In my view, pursue what you love doing and the rest will follow.</p>
<p>Philosophically I agree with Bay and Soozievt, although it’s not so easy on Long Island to keep things in perspective; I think adcoms roll their eyes when they see “another Long Island kid.” Thr naivite Bay expressed would not be possible here. On the other hand, neither of my kids ever did anything they didn’t really want to do. Still, in the back of their minds I think elite college admission gave them an idea of what level of participation and achievement they wanted for themselves. Having said that both avoided all sports and all student government like the plague. Didn’t seem to hurt tem any. (I also don’t think either achieved academically just for adcoms)</p>
<p>mythmom…one “advantage” where I live is that the local mentality is different than in a place like Long Island and here, nobody is talking about what ECs, etc. one should do to get into an “elite” college. There were no pressures from others. My kids pursued what they enjoyed. Later, when it came time to applying to college, they just documented what they had done. While I realize that those who live in more “competitive” communities where the norm is to be seeking elite colleges, etc. would likely never choose to live where I do and/or think we have substandard schools, I have to say that when I hear of the atmosphere in some schools/communities, such as recorded in books like The Overachievers, I feel lucky that such outside pressures did not exist here for my children.</p>
<p>I feel the same way, soozie. Life in VT isn’t perfect and neither are the schools, but the pressure is much lower on our kids (and parents). My son did take some classes he didn’t love (AP Calc and Advanced Topics in Physics and Chem come to mind) because he knew it would improve his chances of acceptance at his favorite colleges, but he totally followed his heart on the ECs and I think it showed in the enthusiasm he demonstrated for the few he participated in.</p>
<p>I understand your feelings. We live in a beautiful semi-rural village, but the mentality is close to what you describe Soosievt. On the other hand D did take AP Calc because she challengers herself and couldn’t bear to be in a lower class; S did because no reason not to. S refused to take AP Chem (took AP Bio and then APE instead) and each resisted the pressure. D said "I am never going to have A’s in AP math/science courses and never worried about it. Neither would think of going on CC so they are not quite like the kids you read here. I am glad Soosievt and Bethievt have found an envir6nment that suits you.</p>
<p>I truly don’t mean to put down the competitive communities but simply to contrast them. Coming on CC five years ago was an eye opener to me and hearing what it is like in other parts of the country. My kids are not on CC. I recall showing CC to my older D when I found it and she could not relate to many of the students who post here, who discuss “what are my chances” and the “Ivy or bust” mentality or the studying of rankings and the “what do I have to do to get in…” type discussions. </p>
<p>With regard to ECs, nothing my kids did for activities was aimed with college admissions. Most of their activities were areas of interest they began when they were quite young and just kept doing, and still do now in college. </p>
<p>The one thing they DID do that you could say was related to college admissions, is that they always tried to do their best in school. Frankly, they seem to want to do their best even without college admissions at stake. They also crave taking the most challenging curriculum and then some because they are unhappy if not challenged sufficiently or it is too easy. Even in college now, they don’t opt for the easier path. But they were conscious of doing well in school would open more doors in going to college. My younger child did take AP Calculus in 11th grade (had been accelerated in math) only because she knew she should continue with math as a junior since she was planning on college, even though she cannot stand math (even if she is good at it) and is pursuing a career in musical theater. So, that is one thing she did with college in mind, I suppose. In high school, one takes subjects whether they are interested in them or not and that is necessary if seeking higher education. So, I guess she did do that without really WANTING to study it. I guess Bethie is saying the same thing about her son. </p>
<p>We didn’t seek this environment for education or anything but now that we have lived and experienced it, it has some positive aspects such as this issue, I feel. There are down sides in some ways that our schools are not on par with some known high schools. But also there are some benefits to smaller schools as well. As with any situation, there are pros/cons. Our high school is nothing to write home about and I am sure many on CC would never pick it, but we did not pick the school either. We just chose to live here before we even had children. But I am happy with how things turned out and with bringing up children in this sort of atmosphere. It is not for all people. However, I am grateful when I read certain books and also accounts on CC that my kids didn’t have the outside pressures and competitive atmospheres where college admissions was a big topic in high school. In some ways, I think our kids got the better deal but it is just a value judgement. Bethie knows what I mean.</p>