<p>I cannot tell you how timely and helpful this forum has been this past week. I need some insight from those of you more familiar with this process. D (senior) had planned on applying to law school for Fall 2011, but circumstances (esp. financial) earlier this year pointed to a delayed start, much to her dismay. But those circumstances changed 2 weeks ago and D now has a one-time opportunity for financial assistance if she starts this fall. Given the calendar, ideally next fall might be the smartest thing, but D feels strongly it isn’t the best thing for her at this point all things considered. </p>
<p>Of the 14 schools on her list, 5 had deadlines in March, 1 has a deadline today, and 2 have deadlines of tomorrow. Several of these are schools she was very intered in. Only 2 of those on her list are T1 or T2. Of those, one deadline was Mar-15, the other is today. Her stats are 149/3.1 (from a USN ranked school, although it appears that is irrelevant if I consider comments from others to be fact), although very involved on campus (including 4 yrs NCAA athtlete, although again seems to be irrelevant). She is waiting for submission of her requested LORs and has 1 of her 2 Evals posted on LSAC. Resume is under review by consulting group, same with personal statement. I have several questions I would appreciate your thoughts on:
She messaged most of the schools whose deadlines had passed, several said she could still apply as the deadline is the “preferred” date. Is this true and she likely still has a shot, even if small; or is their way of softening the rejection that will inevitably come while still collecting application fees?
Not real clear on the addendums and how they are used. Is this financial blessing (and maybe curse in disguise) a perfect use of the addendums, or are they to be used for something completely different? If so - what?!
Her career aspirations in the legal field are international and human rights law, ideally advocating/lobbying. If she isn’t in a T1 or T2 school is she likely to be very limited in a decent job (government, non-profit, etc.)? Or, is it likely/probably graduating from a T3 or T4 school with a high first time bar pass rates get her where she wants to go (i.e. Florida Coastal or Capital University)? Maybe not as quickly as doing the same from a T14, but you get the idea.
Is it safe for me to assume that if a school like, say, New England Law|Boston encouraged her to apply and waived the fee, her chance of having her app packet reviewed after the deadline is good. Doesn’t mean she’ll be accepted, but she’ll at least have a chance?</p>
<p>Again, I know in a perfect set of circumstances her application packet would have been simmering on the back burner for the fall class and we would just be pressing submit. Or, she’d just wait until next fall, but this financial assistance is to valuable and important to her to turn away from.</p>
<p>The stress and pressure is escalating, as you might expect. I appreciate everyone’s thoughts who have time to reply.</p>
<p>I can’t address the other points, but as to #3…government and IR firms are prestige-hounds almost by definition. It is extremely hard to break into that field without top credentials and/or overseas experience (Peace Corps?). (There are just too many Ivy Leaguers and IR majors from Tufts, Hopkins, Georgetown seeking those jobs, some/many of whom have connections to begin with.)</p>
<p>Thanks BlueBayou, you bring up a good point. I believe her expectations are realistic, she will likely start local and work her way out. Her school list reflects those that have strong study abroad options for most all their law students, so she is seriously considering working abroad in this capacity. Do you believe she is still offbase? Of her 11 quarters (3 quarter system) she has spent 3 of those studying abroad in undergrad - not in resort locales, rather in Israel, Jordan, Cambodia, Vietnam, and Shangai</p>
<p>Yes, she is likely to be very limited. Many make the mistake in thinking that biglaw positions are the only ones that attract the top law graduates. It isn’t true. To be honest, and I’m sure many here will disagree with me, attending anything but a Tier 1 or 2 school these days is a mistake for most applicants. The job opportunities, of any and possibly all descriptions, are very different than they were five years ago, and the grads from the lower tier schools are at an even bigger disadvantage than they were before.</p>
<p>Oh gosh – check the websites for the organizations that do that sort of work, such as Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International. Among the Americans, you’ll see that they’re almost exclusively from schools like Harvard and Yale. Organizations like this are more, not less, selective than the famed “biglaw” sector.</p>
<p>Wow. So basically, if a student doesnt’ get into a T1 or T2, they ought to rethink their career options. I’m going to have a hard time convincing my daughter she ought to rethink her career plans - she doesn’t do “quit”. But I appreciate what everyone is saying. It seems remarkable to me then, that anything but T1 and T2 schools can market themselves to graduates. I must be missing something here, or have spent way too much time behind a corporate desk looking at balance statements…</p>
<p>Thanks AAM and BDM for your insights. Looking forward to hearing from others, especially on the other points listed.</p>
<p>disagree about flushing ones aspirations for law schools if you don’t make the top 100. If that 's what someone truly wants to be, a lawyer, s/he should pursue that route. I have two brothers who went to local law schools who are highly successful. Everywhere I turn I see more attorneys who went to law schools NOT in the top tiers than are, and many are doing just fine, thank you. In fact those who do very well in those schools often do better than those who do not in better known ones. My friend was first in her class at a non top law school and she became the first female partner at a well known law firm. To her a dubious achievement since she worked so hard those years, and is now working on her own so she can have a life.</p>
<p>I think that anyone going into schools and investing time and money needs a good view on the reality of what sort of jobs and salaries are going to be available. But I certainly would not recommend anyone whose options do not include the top two tiers to chuck the entire plan. </p>
<p>A lot of grad from local law schools doing just fine. Now portability can be an issue if you are not from a top law firm, and there is an acute drop from top 14 for that along with things like opportunities to clerk at the Supreme Court and other plum positions, but there are practicing attorneys in every locale from local lawschools hardly known out side of that area.</p>
<p>I was serious about the Peace Corps. The experience is highly valued by international orgs in DC & NY (and for good reason – it separates out the artsy dreamers from the real workers). </p>
<p>IR is a really hot major right now (not sure I know why). Grads in such programs are being cranked out by the thousands every year. Living overseas is a way to distinguish oneself, particularly for Americans. (And no, study abroad is not of much help in that regard.)</p>
<p>Thanks, Taxguy, for starting this very useful and informative thread.</p>
<p>Here is a link to a New York Times article that may be useful to readers. It discusses how certain law schools use large ‘merit scholarships’ to recruit top students, who are unable to maintain the scholarships due to harsh grading curves. It is a real eye-opener.</p>
<p>If you’re looking for work at a small, mid-size firm in a local market, AND if you know for a fact that such firms are hiring from the schools you’re interested in (e.g. by checking their recent hires), then I think going to a local school is not a terrible idea provided you don’t go into massive debt in order to do it.</p>
<p>But if you want to do international human rights work – as the questioner at issue is asking – then that’s not going to cut it. Heck, even the famed “top 14” isn’t going to cut it anymore. You’re really looking at Harvard and Yale at that point, and even then the competition is still tough.</p>
<p>I would suggest two years of Peace Corps and then an application to a MA program at one of the bigs, such as Hopkins-SAIS, Tufts-Fletcher, Georgetown-FS.</p>
<p>To be very honest, 149/3.1 is questionable even for 4th Tier law schools right now, and would not get your kid financial aid. At the end of the admissions cycle, the schools will already have students on their wait lists and the classes are likely to be filled. Talking your kid into working to improve the LSAT score and early admission next year will give her a lot more options.</p>
<p>I agree with Neonzeus. Waiting until the next admissions cycle, and spending some time prepping for a better LSAT score in a retake would be a better plan. The possibility of some better options available with this plan would outweigh accepting a lower tier school at the last minute this year. How many times has she taken the LSAT? A 149 is low, even for a diagnostic, only approximately the 40th percentile. Although I admire kids who are interested in NGO/non-profits/U.N. type positions, it’s important for them to be realistic about this whole process including the likelihood of getting different types of jobs. Or any law job, for some. There are far too many law schools and far too many lawyers in the U.S. With no controls, just about anyone who wants to spend a fortune to go to law school is able to do so. Although there is a lot of nonsense there, I’d suggest that she have a look at top-law-schools dot com, if she hasn’t already. There is some useful information there, too, if you are careful to avoid the drama and angst.</p>
<p>Again, thanks to all of you. This has been very helpful. A few final comments:
BlueBayou - I think the idea of Peace Corps is a good one, one I believe she would thoughtfully consider as it demonstrates her seriousness and understanding of what she believes she may be advocating for.
NeonZeus - I too worry over the LSAT/GPA, even though her PrUG has a documented, more rigorous scoring standard than similar private LibArt colleges. Doesn’t really matter though as AdComms don’t/won’t really care. However, she juggled classes at this tough academic school with working 25-30 hours/week and being a 4 year NCAA athlete, sorority leadership position.
AlwaysAMome - I also appreciate your insight about waiting. Deferring potentially resolves the LSAT score (maybe), but it introduces another issue (the financial assistance available to her only this year). But she’ll just have to make that decision.</p>
<p>Although the comment to NeonZeus is notable perhaps to someone looking at her as a potential employee, it appears from comments by those of you who have “been there, done that”, AdComms just really don’t care about the GPA in the context of everything else. LSAT/GPA/Writing Ability. Period.</p>
<p>In retrospect, and I could KICK myself for this, I should have really nudged her to a less rigorous in-state PuUG school w/ less of a pedigree, forego the extra-curriculars, spend much more time and money on standardized test coaching (which she stinks at - ACT was 24, definitely below the norm for the 8 more and most selective UGs she applied to, and yet got accepted by all) versus the out of state PrUG she wanted to go to so she could stretch/reach beyond the small midwestern town she grew up in. She wanted the challenge, and the experience, and the pedigree as she thought it would matter. Who knew…</p>
<p>I fear this is going to be an UGLY conversation. Last question for all of you - what are the challenges she will face next year if she applies this year, and as NeonZeus and AlwaysAMom believe, will likely not make the cut for even a T4 school because of her stats - what will those rejections do/mean to her attempts at applying next year, even if she can apply next year?</p>
<p>Sorry, I should have added… As one who will provide what financial assistance I can, I have no qualms whatsoever about her ability to succeed in law school and in her career aspirations. She is smart and well-respected in her USN top 50 PrUG. Balanced, although again, balanced isn’t as important in getting into law school as it is staying in law school. She may not have the high stats, but she definitely has the skills to succeed in the curriculum. So I didn’t want to paint her as someone who struggles to get by, that isn’t the case. Just that I should have helped her position herself better for the numbers game that law school admissions can be and/or is. To that end, there is probably no point in forking over the ~$1k - $3k for a law school admissions consultant at this point.</p>
<p>PS - Yes, Top Law Schools website is a good one!</p>
<p>The only problem with the Top Law School web site is that there is no moderation. You really do get some horrible posters who have zero sense of etiquette. Be aware of this and make sure that you develop a thick skin.</p>
<p>Ha! Sound advice TaxGuy, although no postings there. Just readily referencable information - or at least that is how we’ve used it. BTW - thank you for starting your thread, this is has been invaluable. Your thoughts on paying for a law school admissions consultant at this point?</p>