<p>The last two years of helping my now high school senior get into an appropriate college made it abundantly clear to me that a 4-year college degree is the new high school. It used to be, that you needed to do well in high school so that you could go to college and then after graduaton, get a good job (or at least, better than a high-school only job). Now, you need your 4-year college degree to get into graduate school so you can get a good job (or, at least better than the former high school job which is now the 4-yr college job). Which is why it’s dumb to go into major debt on those first 4 years.
Just one very jaded Mom’s opinion.</p>
<p>@mrego: What matters is whether you can convince the client that you can do the work.</p>
<p>Work samples and recommendations can help with this. For example, Web designers and developers often provide URL’s of projects they’ve completed in the past. Writers can provide previous written work.</p>
<p>I, for one, am thankful that you thought to put your feelings “out there” so candidly. I am sending a link to this thread to my son, who will be entering Colgate in the Fall as a freshman. </p>
<p>Thank you.</p>
<p>OP:</p>
<p>I think what you wrote is fantastic. It does a great job of describing what many college graduates are experiencing today. I want to forward it to my own kids.</p>
<p>I am glad to read that the OP is back at community college getting valuable skills.</p>
<p>Thanks to OP and LoveDuke for sharing their stories. My experience is that you are “one break away”. When I graduated UK with an engineering degree I couldn’t get a job for 5 months. Silly me, I worked at UPS over the summers (money was really good back then) instead of interning. It took me 5 months, but from there I was able to get a job at Raytheon and from there I was off to the races. </p>
<p>Same thing for my brother who got an engineering degree from Texas A&M. He couldn’t find a job after college and he came up to Boston to live with me. He interviewed to be a computer programmer, got the job and studied like crazy for 6 months.</p>
<p>Both he and I have been successfully employed ever since. What I learned from that is that the economy is not always set to absorb the 2 million college kids who hit the job markets each May. Sometimes it just takes a while longer. Some parts of the country are not in bad shape. NH has an unemployment rate of 6% and medical companies are hiring in Boston. </p>
<p>The blessings of this are that you are now hungry (hopefully not literally). Once you get the job, learn the skills that will be necessary for you to advance. And then don’t forget your lessons so that you are compassionate for those who come after you.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Good point. It will really be interesting to see if 20 years or so from now if a graduate degree will be the new equivalent of a HS diploma, and how folks will over come that.</p>
<p>“The last two years of helping my now high school senior get into an appropriate college made it abundantly clear to me that a 4-year college degree is the new high school.”</p>
<p>I agree. Society has changed a lot in terms of what kind of education is important and necessary. It wasn’t until after WW II that most Americans completed high school. Even after that, one could get jobs paying very well even without a high school education.</p>
<p>Now, college or some kind of post high school education is necessary in order to obtain employment that will allow oneself to be self supporting. And even with that, it takes a lot of looking and often it takes a paid or unpaid internship to get permanent employment.</p>
<p>OP was listing some of the negatives of how he or she executed his or her college experience, and , yes, good lessons to be shared. Someone previously saw the value in ‘partying’ (enhanced social skills - NOT a trivial thing! this from someone who is pretty shy and not that comfortable in social situations). I want to add to this and quickly point out that his college experience at Colgate DID make some positive value for OP: </p>
<p>First, it encouraged and buffed his thinking skills. He saw this one year of unemployment and <em>thought about it</em>. </p>
<p>Second, he looked at this mass of inchoate phenomena that was his year since graduation and was able to make some sense and order of it, AND express this in words that were meaningful and clear to others. This is one of the missions of an LAC such as Colgate, and I say this was <em>successful</em>. </p>
<p>Others in a similar fix of being out of work might have just gone to the bars and drank and ‘go down the rabbit hole’ as the HR person warned me about when my company let me go. You made some sense of this and this will better move you forward.</p>
<p>OP, you will carry this well honed thinking, analytic, and writing apparatus wherever you go, whether teaching for no money or taking classes at the community college. It will distinguish you from the others and you’ll rise to the top.</p>
<p>Recession? There ain’t no recession!</p>
<p>some posts,fyi, that I recall seeing previously on CC on some of the topics touched in this thread…</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/771581-education-debate-books-washington-post.html?highlight=liberal+arts[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/771581-education-debate-books-washington-post.html?highlight=liberal+arts</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/558472-what-real-point-lac.html?highlight=liberal+arts[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/558472-what-real-point-lac.html?highlight=liberal+arts</a></p>
<p>OP brought up the subject of extreme debt of other students OP observed in this thread “working for free as unpd interns”). Implication is that OP had no significant debt after college. But imagine everything OP said , AND there was oppressive debt on top of living in his or her old bedroom at home. Throwing this out there: if there were debt, and OP WAS paying for college, maybe OP would have <em>somehow</em> found better motivation during school?</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/476132-should-you-incur-substantial-debt-dream-school-even-pay-dream-tuition.html?highlight=dream+school[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/476132-should-you-incur-substantial-debt-dream-school-even-pay-dream-tuition.html?highlight=dream+school</a></p>
<p>(note that this last thread cited is in the parents forum; the ‘you’ was probably directed to parents, I think). My last comment above wondered how the <em>OP</em> would have prosecuted college if OP were paying for it substantially.</p>
<p>for those that say a 4 year college is the new high school, I agree, but even that is beginning to change. Back in the 1970s and 1980s you really only need a college degree in pretty much anything to get a good office job. However today, you can’t just get “any kind of degree” now. As our world became more and more knowledge intensive, the pool of relevant degrees have shrunk. Things like philosophy, ______ studies, social sciences, etc. these have become worthless in the views of many employers today. </p>
<p>Its important for students to think about choosing their majors with a practical mind. Today it should be “what is useful to society what I enjoy” not “what I enjoy”.</p>
<p>A philosophy degree would be so much fun… But I’m going for engineering instead. XD</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s wise to criticize the OP. We haven’t lived in his shoes to know what it is like.</p>
<p>My daughter graduated with honors from UPenn in 2007 and has had 4 jobs. The first was a one year fellowship she got prior to graduation and the other 3 were part-time jobs/internships she pieced together in her field to pay the rent. She’s going back to school in Fall 2010 for a 2 year Masters program at MIT because the job market is such that she finds herself competing against candidates with Masters degrees just for internships!</p>
<p>Many of her friends who didn’t go straight to grad school are either starting in the fall or applying soon. With any luck, by the time she graduates in 2012, the economy will have recovered.</p>
<p>rbchi, what did your d major in?</p>
<p>roderick,
She majored in Sociology and minored in Urban Studies at Penn. She’s going back for a Masters in Urban Planning. She was lucky enough to get a scholarship paying full tuition for both years at MIT.</p>
<p>Interestingly enough, she was accepted to Harvard with NO financial aid, but with the MIT scholarship, she can take classes at Harvard for free.</p>
<p>I too am an '09 graduate from University of Maryland, College Park. I majored in Political Science and running up to graduation I had panic attacks over the looming dread that was upon me. Here is how I survived:</p>
<p>1) I still traveled. I had always wanted to do the post-euro trip that is so common after graduation. While I had saved up all senior year, many of my friends decided to fore go their plans and instead save their money and job search. Instead, I made a more realistic travel itinerary. With a couple girlfriends, I backpacked through Costa Rica and Panama, and then splurged on England and Amsterdam, all in a month. The month I spent traveling was by far one of the best in my life and something I would never trade away. Not only that, but I found it was something I could bring up at interviews that made me stand out from the usual graduate. My current employer was in fact very impressed with my abroad experience. </p>
<p>2) I moved home. With six months until my student loans would kick in, and already a month gone from my post-college travels… it wasn’t smart to waste money on rent if I did not have too. Yes, I am very lucky to have a father who was more than willing to take me in and I understand not all have this opportunity. But if your parents or another relative lives close to an area you intend on job searching, move home and save your money. </p>
<p>3) I changed my game plan. Originally I hoped I would get a job offer on the experience I already had. I had always been active in politics and my resume included one fairly impressive campaign experience and a few other work related experiences. But I received no call backs except from canvassing jobs. So what did I do? I got more experience. I realized I needed to be able to sell myself more if my luck was ever to change. So I got an unpaid internship on Capitol Hill and considered it an extra semester in my education. On the Hill I had an amazing time, I was exposed to many experiences I would have never had and most importantly… I got a lot of advice from my coworkers on where to look for jobs. </p>
<p>4) Don’t pursue further education until you are ready. Like many jobless out there, I started to consider furthering my education. But since apps were due in December and I hadn’t even settled on a concentration by October… this was a highly unrealistic goal. I signed up for a GRE prep course but ended up skipping out on the classes because I was not yet interested in an advanced degree. I wanted to work and forcing myself to go back to school was NOT the solution. </p>
<p>4) Take the plunge. At the end of my internship, doors opened and I began to get more interviews and I was offered a couple jobs. All temporary (in my line of work, that is normal) and all requiring me to relocate. None of them my dream job but all would move me further in the right direction. I ended up taking one that was literally on the other side of the country. I have since been promoted twice and am now considering grad school now that I have had more time to consider what I really want to study.</p>
<p>The lesson is, times have changed. So evolve to them. You will not get your dream job out of college and maybe you should have never expected so to begin with. So make yourself more marketable. Make yourself stand out and you WILL get the job.</p>
<p>sakerma26,
Your observations were spot on. D met so many people during her first (paid) fellowship after graduation that getting jobs in her field - albeit temporary or part time - at the end of contract period was not too difficult. She also took an unpaid internship because it provided contacts, experience and skills she needed.</p>
<p>I’m sure her decision to try hold out for jobs in her field helped her in the grad school application process but I have to admit that in this economy, I was surprised at how generous financial aid packages were. She was accepted to all 7 of the schools to which she applied and UPenn and MIT offered full tuition, UNC Chapel Hill offered tuition + $14,000 TA job, UCLA offered full tuition + $16,000 cash grant.</p>
<p>Unlike undergrad where I paid the bills, D only considered offers with good financial aid packages. At least she learned something since graduating.</p>
<p>And people make fun of business degree students. One thing I appreciate Kelley teaching me a lot is interpersonal skills. I am a social guy by nature, but the stuff they taught in communications and the interview practice helped a lot. Now I have a relatively well paid summer internship at a Fortune 500 company. I am happy. I don’t get these CC people all talking about Ibank jobs or what not.</p>
<p>Funny thing, three weeks later after I took my offer, I get a phone call from a employer referred from another potential employer. I guess they do pass around resumes.</p>
<p>My GPA was definately not the strongest, but my EC’s were clutch, especially my greek organization (an IFC aka “typical” fraternity). In fact I believe almost my internship class was greek. </p>
<p>Get involved, rush just to try at the mininum, and really the GPA gets you an interview, thats about it. I have a mid 3.X definately not a brainiac.</p>
<p>damit–“rush just to try at the mininum”</p>
<p>please expand or clarify</p>
<p>also, is it kelly as in kelly temp services (temping has been talked about in this thread) or kelly biz school at IU?</p>
<p>rbchi:
“She was lucky enough to get a scholarship paying full tuition for both years at MIT.”</p>
<p>While there is an element of luck in everything, I suspect that your d’s case might be exhibit A for the OP’s statement about the importance of not skting thru UG, of putting your all into it since I saw that you said that your daughter graduated with honors from UPenn.</p>
<p>Not sure if graduating with honors at a lesser known college, say UIC -that’s university of Illinois at chicago , for anyone who doesnt know 
- would get the same results… </p>
<p>but maybe not free tuition at MIT but maybe somewhere else?</p>
<p>But taken together the posts are interesting:</p>
<p>rbchicago shows the importance of not skating thru UG, and there is a hint at grade grub-- consciousness and cultivation.</p>
<p>damit’s post shows the importance of participation, engagment and networking during UG with an eye toward the future, especially important if you just dont have the garish <em>jumpoffthepage</em> numbers and/or institution (for whatever reason - might not be 'cause you’re skating thru classes but maybe you have time mngt issues or not a ‘brainiac’, for example).</p>