<p>So all this talk about the economic recession and joblessness, coupled with my thoughts about my future career have led me to this question: What is a good paying job? For the longest I had hoped to not have a job that paid less than 150K (when I wanted to be a doctor), but since i have diverged from that path I am noticing that ALOT of jobs don’t pay 150K. So what is considered a good salary? </p>
<p>I have been contemplating getting a PhD in a science and working as a research scientist but the ceiling on those jobs seem to be about 90K, and the starting salary is like 70K. So my question is would that be considered a good job? </p>
<p>You all are in the workforce so really is 70K good money for a 28 year old after spending 5 years getting a PhD or should I pursue some other avenue?</p>
<p>If you are under 30 and make 100K/year from purely an undergraduate degree you are doing very well. If you are under 40 and make 150K/year you are doing very well. If you are under 50 and make 200K/year you are doing very well.</p>
<p>I would think that all those amounts are in the ~98th-99th percentile range for their age groups.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that it’s not just the pay that matters - it’s also the amount of time you have to put in to get that pay. If you ask me, $100k per year at 40 hours a week for 48 weeks is very good - $100k per year at 80 hours a week for 51 weeks is not so attractive.</p>
<p>And it’s also going to depend on where in the country you have to live to make that salary. Putting it on a local scale … $100K in New York City is very different from $100K in rural upstate New York.</p>
<p>There is so much more to consider than straight salary when looking at a position. Quality of life, commute - time and cost, stability of the industry and company, how a specific job can help your career in the long run, other benefits like 401k or pension, health,flex time, work from home. Salary relative to cost of living in a specific area of the country is also a big consideration. </p>
<p>DH and I earn very similar salaries, but he works less than I do at a less stressful job. He also gets completely uninterrupted vacation, that can be planned easily. I get less vacation, that is ‘blacked out’ for many weeks of the year so can’t be scheduled. I can hardly enjoy it when I do get it because my team is understaffed. But, I have a < 10minute commute and work with wonderful people in a very interesting job.</p>
<p>Other factors to consider may be the location of relatives, where you want to be in ten years, what kind of manager you will be working for.</p>
<p>The type of company that you work for can be an issue. We hired someone a few years ago and he left recently. We’re a large company and things can move slowly in terms of projects. He was looking for more action and progress - he was aware of larger companies moving more slowly but it didn’t seem real to him until he actually tried it. The benefits and working environment are great but he was looking for something with more action and he took another job with a very large pay cut to do something that he really wanted to do.</p>
<p>According to the rankings from Business Week, the average starting salary from the top undergraduate business schools in 2008 was about 60K and that is a) business schools, which on the average are higher than liberal arts and b) 2008, and we know what has happened since then.</p>
<p>I met a young woman who graduated from a top law school. Her starting salary was $130k plus bonus, bringing it to about $170k a year. She hated the work and quit after two years. She is now pursuing a Ph.D… Her $170k starting salary was more than what her 60+ Ph.D. advisor (professor with a chair) was earning at a top university. But they are both very happy.</p>
<p>H and I individually make far less than $200k, but we’re also very happy.</p>
<p>The single biggest expense for most families is housing. An old rule of thumb is that you should not buy a house that costs more than 2.5 to 3 times your annual income. According to kiplinger.com, the median price of a single family house in the Washington DC area is about $388,000. So, following the old rule, you (or you and your spouse together) need at least $130K/year to buy a house there. </p>
<p>That’s rather sobering, I think, because the highest median family income for any county in the DC metro area is only about $110K. That’s for Loudon County, VA, one of the most affluent counties in the country. </p>
<p>According to payscale.com data, the starting median salary for a UC Berkeley grad is $57,100 (for an undergraduate degree only, in a full time salaried position, not self-employed). This is the highest for any state university. The mid-career median is $112K, which also is the highest for any state university. The mid-career median for full-time salaried Dartmouth graduates with no post-graduate degree is $129K (highest of the Ivy League schools). So even the average Dartmouth grad, even by mid-career, could barely afford to buy a median-priced house in the national capital area on one salary. </p>
<p>In many other parts of the country, housing would be more affordable. A median priced house in Lawrence, Kansas goes for about $180K. The average University of Kansas grad (no advanced degree, full time salaried employee, not self-employed) according to payscale.com starts at $42,700 and reaches $80,800 at mid-career. So, it appears that an experienced Kansas grad could reasonably afford a median priced house in Lawrence on one salary (ca. $60K), according to conventional guidelines.</p>
<p>My understanding is that the rule of thumb did not depend on the nominal purchase price, but rather by a comparison of the monthly p and i with monthly income (I think the number was 33%).</p>
<p>But in any event, the numbers that you quote in part reflect the fact that, by all historical standards, affluent Americans have come to expect houses that are, frankly, entirely too large. After WWII, the dream house for middle Americans was three bedrooms and 1 1/2 baths. Nobody even builds those anymore.</p>
<p>The late 20th century and early 21st century was an unsustainable aberration; our children are going to have to have more reasonable expectations.</p>
<p>It doesn’t matter what you do, if you are very good at it then you will get paid. There are secretaries that get paid 100+, and there are doctors that are not paid much more. There are programmers that get paid 70, and there are programmers making 300-700 (or more). There are lawyers with starting salary of 180, and there are lawyers making 50. If you have the aptitude, drive, and like what you do, you’ll do a better job than other people.</p>
<p>Most of us end up working close to 50 years (yikes). It is very hard to do something for that long if you don’t like it. At the same time, I think a lot of us change our profession many times in our career.</p>
<p>70k is a good salary for a first job in your mid-late 20s. However, you’re right to think about where the salary will max out in your chosen profession and also how much education is needed. While there are always examples of a few people who make a lot more than everyone else on their field, I wouldn’t plan on that because a lot of times it’s a combo of hard work, intelligence, and also luck, which you can’t control. I personally think that 90k as a max is low for a field where you’d have to put in 4 yrs of undergrad and 5 yrs in a Phd program. You would be living like a student for about a decade and your payoff is not what it would be in many other professions; in better times there are finance undergrads from top schools that make more than that even if they don’t pursue an mba later. If this is the field that interests you and that’s where you want your career to go, I would pursue it – 70-90k is a good salary. However, if you’re waivering at all, I’d think about other professions with higher salaries or less schooling or both.</p>
<p>It’s certainly true that the average new house is much bigger than it used to be, but I don’t think that accounts for most of the run-up in cost.</p>
<p>Fine Homebuilding published a story called “One Carpenter’s Life” in their February/March 2006 issue. According to the author, in the early 1950s he was making “less than $2 an hour” as a young journeyman carpenter. In 1951 the median house price was about $9000. In that year, his older brother (also a carpenter) was able to buy a new 3 br house for $400 down and a monthly payment of $65, including taxes and insurance. Let’s assume he was making an even $2 an hour (~$4000/year). In that case, the median house price was only about 2.25 times his annual income, and the monthly payment was only about 20% of his monthly wages. That’s what a skilled trades person could afford in California in the early 50s on just one income.</p>
<p>In those days, by the way, a house was built almost entirely with hand tools. It was framed with durable, old growth Douglas Fir. It was sheathed not in plywood but with 1x6 boards cut with a hand saw. So it seems to me, the cost increases attributable to bigger houses should have been at least partially offset by greatly reduced labor costs over the years. But where in the country today can a young carpenter afford a median-priced new house on one income? In some regions today, the median-priced house costs 7 times the median earnings of a young graduate from the country’s top colleges, or 4 times the median income of graduates at mid career.</p>
<p>aj725, that is what I am wavering about. I mean I really don’t want to spend five additional years in grad school. But I love science and science jobs are all pretty much long term education wise or low paying. I am thinking about pursuing patent law which has a nice salary and less years of school, but I am a little unsure. Luckily I really don’t have to know for at least 3 years :)</p>
<p>Which begs the question: who are the people that are living in these houses? Texas housing is pretty cheap and you can get a really large nice house for 300K but I hear is places like Boston 300K would be an average house. But most people don’t make that kind of money according to wiki the average family income is $44,151 in Boston, so how are these people living? Do they just live in apartments, because that would suck.</p>
<p>DH and I are approaching our 60’s. We make, combined, less than $200,000 so by Mr. Payne’s standards, we aren’t doing very well. I can tell you that until recently…very recently, our combined incomes were less than $150,000 a year. We own a house, four cars, and have put two kids through college (almost full pay). We live in a nice area, and really don’t want for much. A “good salary” is different to some than to others.</p>
<p>I will say…remember this…the more you earn, the more you are likely to spend.</p>
<p>Patent lawyers have to pass 2 Bar exams - one of the state where they will be practicing law and the other one is the patent bar exam administered by the USPTO. Not everyone with a law degree qualifies to take the patent bar exam; a candidate has to have either a BS degree in certain sciences or certain number of undegraduate science credits. Patent attorneys, especially young associates, work terrible hours - clients tend to procrastinate and then demand fast turnaround from the lawyers drafting their patents. Work does not stop on weekends and evenings or during vacations (it is likely that you’ll be sitting in your hotel room feverishly typing away while your family will be splashing in the pool). God forbid any of your clients will be as picky as my boss! You absolutely have to love this type of work to thrive in this profession and stick with it. Additionally, the field is very competitive, and the patent attorneys who seem to have an advantage in getting good jobs are the people who either worked in their scientific field for a while before going to law school, went to law school after getting a PhD, or worked as patent examiners. So it is not as slam-dunk as it seems.</p>
<p>If you’re thinking of patent law, a science or engineering undergrad is a must. By no means is a PhD necessary, and as for work experience – it’s good if you have it but grads of top 10 law schools with science/engineering degrees and a few undergrad internships along the way typically do not have problems getting offers in the IP departments of the larger firms. (I know a top 10 law school is not a guarantee, but I’m assuming you’ll set your sights on a school that will have a reputation similar to your undergrad school.) As for the lifestyle – it’s par for the course for all large firm associate attorneys – the work doesn’t stop just because it’s 6 pm or because it’s the weekend and you are attached to your email all the time. It’s stressful at times, but for those of us who like what we do, it isn’t a huge sacrifice/burden, esp. while you’re young. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, you have to consider the kind of hours you’ll have to put in for the money. There are better lifestyle options, but lots of time the pay is less as well.</p>