“you have tried to change your speech or mannerisms to gain credibility, take one step back.”
Another stupid question. The person who realizes that his speech, mannerisms, etc. hinder him in life and takes effort to learn those norms is the smart one, not the disadvantaged one. Isn’t that part of the whole point of getting low income people into elite schools so they can learn to fit in with middle to upper middle class?
What, should someone keep saying “ain’t” and talking with their mouth full and not learn how to shake hands when called for and so forth?
“If you attended private school or summer camp, take one step forward.”
Yet another stupid q. Some private schools suck. Some public schools are great. Summer camp is fun for some kids, horrid for others. I didn’t go to summer camp - because I had a pool in my backyard. Oh the lack of privilege! lol.
“If you were raised in a single-parent household, take one step backward.”
Depends on the circumstances.
“If you studied the culture of your ancestors in elementary school, take one step forward.”
i hardly think I’m not privileged for not having studied about Germany or Poland in elementary school.
“If members of your gender are portrayed on TV in degrading roles, take one step backward.”
Why? Some stupid bimbo on TV doesn’t reflect on me.
“you can walk alone at any time of day or night in Saratoga without thinking about safety, take one step forward.”
I have no idea how safe or unsafe Saratoga is, but I don’t believe anyone, anywhere, can “walk alone at any time of day or night” without thinking about safety. There are no magic male shields against crime. I don’t blithely let my 22 yo D walk around our suburban safe-as-pie neighborhood at 2 am but I don’t want my 22 yo S doing so either.
“My kids were born in USA, that’s privilege. They also born in California. That’s double privilege.”
I agree it’s great privilege to be born in the U.S. But I can’t think of a single reason why being born in CA is any more privileges than any other state. It’s just a state, we have 49 others, get over yourselves.
Growing up with a significant family dysfunction (such as an alcoholic or abusive parent) is pretty traumatic. I don’t see that listed here. You could envision s situation in which a woman leaves an alcoholic husband, and their kids get “steps backward” (single parent household, no summer camp or family vacation or cleaning lady) and yet they could be far, far better off than the children of the woman who stayed - because no steps forward from summer camp or family vacation or cleaning lady can make up for that trauma.
“If you have been a victim of violence because of your race, gender, class, or sexual orientation, take one step back.”
This really, really bothers me. Why is the “because” relevant? A white straight guy getting robbed at gunpoint can’t be traumatic?
Of course some people are born on third base and others aren’t. But I find these privilege discussions very reductionistic and also insulting. Poor families can be privileged if they are loving warm environments and rich families can be un-privileged if they aren’t. There are more lenses in life than gender, sexual orientation and SES.
It appears to me that the survey is designed to prove to you that any aspect of being white, male, heterosexual, and growing up with more income gives you greater privilege. They could have just stated that in one sentence, but then again, they wouldn’t be saying anything we hadn’t heard a million times.
"Being cat-called at a construction site isn’t really on a par with not getting promoted because of your gender. "
I love the PC assumption that getting cat-called is some kind of dehumanizing trauma. If I walk by a construction site and some guy wants to call hey baby, God bless him. Seriously. Smile and move on. You’re not remotely “threatened” or dehumanized, get a grip. YK who are threatened and dehumanized? Young girls in Afghanistan or Pakistan who get shot for wanting an education, young girls in Saudi Arabia who aren’t rescued from burning buildings since they are “immodestly” dressed, young girls who are mutilated physically for cultural reasons. Not boo-hoo a cat call in your direction on the streets of NYC.
" I love the PC assumption that getting cat-called is some kind of dehumanizing trauma. If I walk by a construction site and some guy wants to call hey baby, God bless him. Seriously. Smile and move on. You’re not remotely “threatened” or dehumanized, get a grip."
When that happens, I think, those guys need some glasses. Obviously they can’t see my wrinkles, but hey, thanks anyways.
“YK who are threatened and dehumanized? Young girls in Afghanistan or Pakistan who get shot for wanting an education, young girls in Saudi Arabia who aren’t rescued from burning buildings since they are “immodestly” dressed, young girls who are mutilated physically for cultural reasons. Not boo-hoo a cat call in your direction on the streets of NYC”
So much is also focused on “the eyes of others.” In that regard it’s little different from the CC kids who are obsessed with certain schools because they want others to think well of them.
Thought experiment - let’s take the stereotypical kid of a tiger parent who is pushed hard in academics, studying on weekends, striving for certain schools, being told he’s not worthy if he doesn’t make it in. Are they privileged or non-privileged by this scale?
It’s interesting that the questions don’t mention appearance (you are privileged if you are pretty/handsome) or intelligence. Or personality characteristics.
PG, you should look at the survey as a whole, not the individual questions. I came out at +13 -1. I am surprised by that, uncomfortable with that, and a little humbled by that. I don’t always feel particularly privileged but there is absolutely no doubt that I am.
Those who pick apart the individual questions are sounding to me, at least, a little like people in the climate change denier camp. Such and so isn’t always true so the entire concept must be flawed.
My W, graduate of an elite university and highly accomplished in her traditionally male-dominated profession, still can walk into an all male boardroom and be largely invisible. Hence, the catcalls question on the survey. (Sorry to point out the obvious but it really isn’t about the catcalls from the construction workers.) But she did attend a private school, indicating either that her family had the means to pay for it, or was motivated enough to have her apply for a scholarship, so she takes a step forward for that. Etc, etc. I think the survey accurately shows that all things being equal, I had/have a few more advantages than she did. In my bubble it is all too easy to forget that. Yet she comes out as awfully privileged as well.
The point of the survey is not that overcoming adversity is impossible, or that one is “always” a victim. It’s point IMO is that the more obstacles there are to overcome, the harder it is to get to places that many of us take for granted, and that it is useful for all of us to be reminded of that.
I used to live a few blocks from Paul Newman’s childhood home in a very wealthy Cleveland suburb. He always acknowledged the enormous leg up he had starting out in life, and sometimes lamented that he didn’t do more with it, particularly the education he received at Kenyon College. Yet he started a foundation that has provided $400+ million to charities. I wish more people, like him, would acknowledge the advantages they’ve had.
I don’t think it’s a ridiculous question. One of the things I consider to be my family’s privilege is that my husband was physically able and had the opportunity to stock supermarket shelves overnight for years to pay for college and give our kids the other things that are part of being educated, middle class people – which we are not, ourselves. Last winter he worked 12-14 hours a day, 7 days a week for 73 straight days and that “snow money” paid for an entire semester’s tuition. We don’t consider that a step back, we pray for snow because it’s such a huge chunk of money that it gets our kids luxuries. People like us consider snow, parades, festivals, every opportunity for overtime to be a huge blessing. And I don’t personally know many NYC or NYS municipal workers who don’t work a second or side job, and their kids go to colleges that would be considered acceptable her on CC and hope never to have to do what their parents did. Of course, when the economy crashed, municipal jobs because almost impossible to get, but sometimes privilege is in the perception.
Just as you can be a black women who bares a child “out of wedlock”, and yet not fit the stereotype of the “Wick/Snap dependent” ghetto queen people are so quick to tsk,tsk over, here on CC, you can be a child whose parents work nights and weekends, and yet not fit inside the box of assumption some people on this thread are outraged (outraged, I tell you!) that the survey criterion appears to convey.
Which is why I wrote:
As I think I mentioned early in the thread, I feel pretty privileged when I look at the ways in which I’m advantaged over others. I’m not offended by being reminded of that, because it helps me remember to be empathetic to the challenges of others. I have to admit that I don’t quite understand the bristling defensiveness exhibited by some responses.
Persons whose parents worked a second job at night and on weekends immediately realize the question is referencing moonlighting as opposed to working overtime in a salaried position. As MidwestDad3 noted, the questions taken as a whole portray the idea of privilege. As for your twins pizzagirl, yes, in the US, being male does have aspects of privilege over being female. Thirty plus years ago when I started my first engineering job, there was animosity in the workplace towards women engineers by some male co-workers and that is still true today-in some settings. Just one example but wage disparity between the genders also supports a male privilege hypothesis. It is interesting to me when people do not recognize the privilege they have experienced. Two of my children independently of each other wrote to me after beginning college commenting how grateful they were to have been raised in a stable, supportive environment because they now recognized that not everyone has that. Now that one of our our children is in the Peace Corps, privilege on a completely different level is apparent.
@hoosiermom, you are right about women in engineering. I have 4 friends, all females, engineering undergrads, an two EE, one Mech E, and a Chem E. We graduated 25 years ago, and they all said their treatment was horrible. None on them stuck with engineering, 3 went to Warton for MBAs, and one got a PHd in Education.
For me, years ago I decided that gratitude was the most important personal quality for me to possess in abundance. Therefore, I try very hard to find the privileges (what I call blessings) in my life every, single day. Which also means that I am aware of those who are not so blessed and try to help. Personally, I think privilege/blessing, whatever you call it, is something to be celebrated, not ashamed of or defensive about. It is easier to be generous and inclusive when you are grateful and joyous.