<p>I can see marlene’s point. As an in-state resident (who pays in-state taxes), you would like to see your in-state option be financially competitive/affordable. Also, as an alumni, you would like to have your (in-state) school be an affordable option for your children. </p>
<p>UIUC isn’t the only “flagship” that’s skimpy on merit aid, but combine that with a fairly high tuition rate (for state public universities) and I can see why it’s frustrating. </p>
<p>@Gator88NE:</p>
<p>As an in-state resident of a state who pays for all of 14% of UofI’s budget these days.</p>
<p>State support as a percentage of the budget of public schools has decreased drastically across the board in all states. A public school then has the choice of opting out of the arms race (in which case, UofI would not be top-tier in engineering, CS, accounting, or the other programs that it is top-tier in much longer) or raise tuition.</p>
<p>I would prefer – for purely selfish reasons – that Illinois encouraged its best and brightest students to stay in state by offering competitive tuition. After all, they are more likely to settle here if they attend a state school.</p>
<p>@vladen… The data IS true. If you compare the costs I posted for just one year ago you can see how they have gone up- data that is even a few years older, such as may have been your time in college, will show much lower costs. I trust UW’s information gathering. This year includes two more Big Ten schools as well. btw- there are non sports advantages to being in the conference- academic research dollars.</p>
<p>Kids tend to go to places that have jobs and are fun, which explains why every Midwestern B10 school is well-represented in Chicago.</p>
<p>With regards to UIUC vs. PU, it comes down to supply and demand. PU Engineering and UIUC Engineering are roughly the same size (actually, PU Engineering has slightly more undergrads. However, IL has about twice as many people/high schoolers as IN. So UIUC evidently doesn’t think that it needs to offer much merit aid to get the number of high-achieving undergrads that it wants. PU evidently thinks differently.</p>
<p>There are reasons Wisconsin has reciprocity with Minnesota and not Illinois although both share borders. There would be huge numbers of Illinois residents wanting UW (many pay OOS tuition now) while it would be hard to get WI residents to travel so far to pay so much more. I don’t understand why MN doesn’t charge more for OOS- it is a bargain for a good school and location in a nice big city to boot.</p>
<p>I wonder if going instate at UIUC really would make a difference for the huge numbers of state residents who live in the Chicago area. Many from surrounding states gravitate to Chicago for the big city after college, I don’t see where these students would prefer nearby OOS cities for opportunities. I’m sure those that want a large but not mega city will travel to nearby states regardless of where they went to college. Those who prefer small to medium cities are not likely to be drawn to those of nearby states just because they attended college there either I suspect.</p>
<p>There are many OOS students who attend UW but then return to their home areas for work and life. Going to UW doesn’t make New York or New Jersey students want to become Midwesterners. </p>
<p>I’ll add that many UW students like the campus and surrounding city of Madison so much they aren’t eager to leave- spending an extra year to add classes and a 5, not 4, year graduation if affordable is not uncommon.</p>
<p>@Vladenschlutte, at the bottom of the table they explain that the tuition listed is for entering students(lower div.) and does not include any extra program fees. It may seem artificially low, but is also so for the other schools that price similarly. For MSU the price listed is for 15 L.D. credits per semester and no extra program fees. Equal opportunity lowballing.</p>
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<p>At that point you might as well not even post numbers, just a ranking. </p>
<p>Yeah. The UMich tuition on that list is likely for LSA lowerclassmen of last year.</p>
<p>The number of private colleges that claim to cover 100% of demonstrated financial need (about 60) is greater than the number of states with public “flagship” universities. All of these private colleges are selective, but some of them are less so than Berkeley, UVa, or Michigan. A number of other selective private schools don’t claim to cover 100% of demonstrated need, but on average do cover more than 90% of demonstrated need. They tend to be less selective than the “full need” schools.</p>
<p>Consider a family with the median US family income, about $54,000.
According to Ohio State’s NPC, an Ohio resident with that income would pay an estimated $16,778
(assuming the family has only 1 child and no home equity.) A resident of another state with a 1400 M+CR and top 10% class rank would pay an estimated $21,544 (after merit aid including the Buckeye scholarship). However, a student from any state with that family income would pay an estimated $12,863 to attend Oberlin College. Oberlin is stateuniversity.com’s top-ranked college for the state of Ohio. </p>
<p>Oberlin is one of the ~60 schools that claims to meet 100% of demonstrated need. Kenyon is not, and is somewhat less selective than Oberlin. According to Kenyon’s NPC, a student with this family income (and the same assumptions) would pay an estimated $10,570 to attend Kenyon (after grant aid, but before any “self help” aid). Kenyon is stateuniversity.com’s #3 college for the state of Ohio. </p>
<p>Ohio State is relatively low priced for an OOS student with good stats, due to the Buckeye scholarship and other merit grants. Consider the University of Colorado for a median-income family. According to CU Boulder’s NPC, a CO resident with that income would pay an estimated $18,354 (assuming the family has only 1 child and no home equity.)
A resident of another state (regardless of stats) would pay an estimated $46,396. According to the Colorado College NPC, a student with this family income (and the same assumptions) would pay an estimated $9,820 to attend Colorado College (after grant aid, but before any “self help” aid). If your family income were double the national median ($108K), you would pay an estimated $20,900 to attend CC (less than half Boulder’s OOS rate, and still fairly competitive with Boulder’s in-state costs). Colorado College is not one of the ~60 “full need” schools. It is stateuniversity.com’s #1 college for the state of Colorado.</p>
<p>By definition, half of US families have incomes lower than the median ($54K). So for at least half of all families, if your children are very good students (not necessarily tip-top students), it is fairly likely that you can find a private college with much lower net costs than many OOS public universities. In some cases, they will have lower costs even than your in-state public university. The richest, most selective schools (Ivies, etc.) may have lower net costs than your own state flagship even if your income is double to triple the national median. </p>
<p>In any case, spend a few minutes with the Net Price Calculators to build your own estimates. Your state flagship may well offer the best bang for the buck in your own situation.</p>
<p>It’s not really a secret that upper-middle class kids are disproportionately represented among the group of high achieving HS students, however.</p>
<p>In any case, yes, the state flagships are filled with upper-middle class kids now (average family income is higher at UM-TC than Macalester, for instance) because those are the types of families for whom sate flagships make the most financial sense now with the drastic decrease of the percentage of public U’s budgets funded by states over the past few decades (and correspondingly big tuition increases).</p>
<p>I think we’re doing a bit too much generalization when it comes to state flagship universities COA. The dynamics at UIUC are very different from the University of Alabama, which is very different from the Universities of Georgia or Florida. You really do need to do your own estimates using the Net Price Calculators.</p>
<p>^ A careful analysis would find the rough boundaries of that variation. At what income levels does the net cost equalize between top N private schools and top N public universities? How big can N get before the Nth+ private schools are no longer cost-competitive with OOS or in-state publics? Many experienced posters already have intuitions about where these boundaries are. Discussion and analysis can help refine those intuitions (and adjust them if necessary.) For example, what do we really mean when we say, “state flagships make the most financial sense” for upper-middle class families? My own intuition is that, for families earning up to about $120K (maybe more), any of the Ivies (or peer schools) might make more financial sense than, say, Penn State (one of the most expensive flagships). One could pretty easily gather data to test that.</p>
<p>According to IPEDS data, for families earning $75,001 to $110K who are paying the in-state rate to attend Penn State (main campus), the average price paid is $27,426. For families earning the same amounts to attend Cornell (least selective of the Ivies), the average price paid is $21,821. For Harvard, it’s $11,639. For Holy Cross (one of the least selective “full need” schools), it’s $26,071. For Dickinson (a selective college in PA that is not one of the “full need” schools), it’s $23,230. For Trinity College (Hartford), it’s $20,232. For Colby, it’s $16,857.</p>
<p>Shift the comparison to another state, and the market comparison does change. According to IPEDS data, for families earning $75,001 to $110K who are paying the in-state rate to attend the University of Minnesota (Twin CIties), the average price paid is $18,782. For Truman State (in state), it’s $13,707. For the University of Florida (in state), it’s $11,723. </p>
<p>@tk21769, you’re right, I should use dollar figures. State flagships are generally the most affordable option for those from families making $200K+ (but think that $65K/year is a considerable amount) and do not get big merit money from privates.</p>
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<p>Agree. Basically, you have to shop around. The sticker price in-state for TRBF at big state Us runs from about $18k to $30k. What a particular kid pays at a particular school is the net price – after need aid, after merit aid, after in-state or OOS. All state schools don’t have the same business model.</p>
<p>University of Colorado/Boulder has a relatively high in-state price and a relatively low net OOS price. 48% OOS enrollment. They are basically set up to enroll OOS kids from CA and TX.</p>
<p>Colorado State is 80% in-state enrollment. They live to enroll in-state kids whose families can pay $15-20k.</p>
<p>
This is the reason that so many students from PA attend West Virginia University, which is a stone’s throw from the Pennsylvania and Maryland borders. State schools in PA are expensive and from what I understand, they are notoriously stingy with aid. Here in WV, in-state students with a B average and a 22 on the SAT qualify for our $4,750- per-year PROMISE scholarship, which was initiated to keep our students in-state. S1 qualified for this and it goes a long way when tuition at all state schools, not just WVU, is reasonable to begin with. </p>
<p>UMich meets the need of in state students, that is another way to bring down the cost of in state flagship.</p>
<p>“UMich meets the need of instate students, that is another way to bring down the cost of in state flagship.”</p>
<p>UVa meets need as well, but that really doesn’t mean anything if your EFC is above the instate cost. There are many full pay instate kids at UVa. I’m guessing that is the case at many flagships, but I am of course, just guessing on that.</p>
<p>How common is the practice of “admit-deny” verdicts, where students aren’t offered enough aid? Does this only happen with merit aid?</p>
<p>Only about 60 colleges even claim to meet 100% of demonstrated financial need.
(<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2014/09/15/colleges-and-universities-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-college/articles/2014/09/15/colleges-and-universities-that-claim-to-meet-full-financial-need</a>). West Virginia University, for example, on average met 72% of demonstrated need in 2012-13, according to its Common Data Set figures. Penn State, on average, met 58%.</p>
<p>Merit aid, by definition, has nothing to do with demonstrated financial need (even though some families do count on it to cover the gap between what they are able/willing to pay and the EFC).</p>