My DH and I didn’t have any pre-marital counseling to speak of. We are still together 27 years later, so apparently we didn’t need it.
Except-wait!!! We COULD have benefited from it immensely. We would have had fewer conflicts to successfully navigate through had we done that. We would have made things in our life a little easier. So when I encourage you to do that, I’m not saying you will get divorced if you don’t. Obviously we didn’t. But it can decrease the amount of conflict and stress you do have during your marriage, and that is a very good thing.
OP, if you get nothing else from this thread, I hope you take in the suggestions to get pre-marital counseling AND hold off on having children too early in the marriage.
One has to recognize that a good deal of the advice and received wisdom about the dangers of marrying young are probabilistic: There’s doubtless a better chance that a marriage between two relatively young people will end in divorce, vs. a couple eight or ten years older. But “better chance” may mean 40% vs. 35%, or even 50% vs. 30%. Lots of young marriages survive. And no one keeps statistics on young engagements, or young marriages between University of Michigan engineers from economically-challenged families. The OP and her partner can grow together or grow apart, and no one (including they) can really know which it will be.
I think there’s an implied premise in much of the advice that being married is much more serious than not being married, and that the consequences of a failed marriage are more devastating – and therefore more to be avoided – than the consequences of a failed non-marriage. I think, however, that the end of any long-term, committed, adult relationship is painful, and that what can make a breakup devastating are things like joint ownership of property, asymmetrical career choices for the good of the couple, children, common friends, going in different directions emotionally – things that can happen to the non-married as well as to the married. By the same token, the end of a young marriage involving comparatively little wealth, career disruption, or children, is not necessarily more devastating than ending the same relationship without marriage. It’s a little more complicated and expensive, but not much.
In other words, I don’t think the OP and her partner are taking some sort of enormous risk when they bet that they will be winners against really-not-so-bad odds. Nor will there be enormous rewards from the small risk they are taking. Being engaged now, and even being married at 21 or 22, will not necessarily be a fundamental change in the lives they would have if they didn’t do those things. The risk and the reward will come later, with all the decisions and choices they make (or not make) as a couple, whether they are married or not.
@JHS I think it depends on how much one values marriage. I, personally, don’t value marriage very highly and thus I don’t feel any different now than I did a year ago and was just living with my now-spouse. Therefore, I agree with everything you wrote.
However, the OP seems to place quite a heavy emphasis on marriage and thus the end of a marriage might be much more devastating than the end of a long term relationship.
@silpat Twenty-five years ago we went to marriage counseling with the conservative, protestant minister who would be marrying us in a few weeks. I didn’t know what to expect.
He told us, “I really only have one thing to say. Always pay cash for a car.”
That sentiment really stuck with us. It is one reason we worked so hard over the years to save for our daughter’s college education.
^Ha, my dad said that too. No car financing and pay off credit cards every month. If you have that attitude re money matters, it helps. Marry someone who agrees with your money philosophy:)
DH and I were married at 22 and came from economically struggling families. We were zero EFC kids who put ourselves through, though it was easier to do then than currently. We had been married three years when DH started law school – we borrowed some money, he had some scholarships, and we lived on my (small) salary plus his summer earnings. S1 was born the month before I turned 30 – we had been married seven years at that point.
Money was an issue that we were united on, and we have been frugal for many years (except when it came to college – top schools were DH’s ticket out, and we vowed we’d do whatever it took). We track everything we spend on Quicken. All our funds are commingled. It’s good financial discipline, but one must also learn when to open the wallet. He is loath to spend funds on household maintenance, yard work and cleaning, even though I am not able to do many of these tasks any longer. It has been very, very tough for DH to get over the financial and emotional shadows and struggles of his childhood. This became clear as our kids got older and as I faced health challenges. In his mind he is still the 13 yo who deals with the bill collectors and manages the money because his parents can’t pay the bills.
I will say there are times when I wish I had lived on my own for a while before marriage. I was in the dorms and had an apartment with my future SIL, but I was never a young, single career woman making life choices without having to consider a spouse. A year after we were married, DH started seriously thinking about law school. We had many long walks and discussions as DH considered where to attend and what career opportunities were available for me. It was a wonderful growth process and set the stage for good things. Ultimately I think we both drew winning hands on the law school and my career path during that time, but the decision to move after law school (and as we started a family) cost me a lot. I’ve sacrificed opportunities so that I can be available for the kids, as DH works 70+ hour weeks and travels extensively. My medical issues have exposed cracks and issues as well. Our 32nd anniversary is in a couple of weeks.
Marriage is a LOT more than love.
My older S was married at 21 to a wonderful young woman. They met while she was on a study abroad at S1’s school junior year, did the LDR thing for a year while she was finishing her senior year in the UK, and by graduation both had fabulous STEM jobs lined up. She was from overseas and so the wedding happened a year sooner than they had originally planned because the work visa didn’t come through and they were tired of being apart. They were in love, well-grounded, financially stable and eminently compatible. They split up 2.5 years later. It’s cordial. They are still friends. The divorce is supposed to be final any day. I have no idea what happened; neither will discuss it. They did tell us there were no “third parties” involved. Watching this happen has been my most difficult experience as a parent.
That’s true as long as children are not involved, of course. And I also don’t believe that individual odds can be extrapolated from group odds (speaking as someone who married early).
Also, for people who see marriage in a religious light, it is important to feel that you are not just taking a flyer on someone you like to be with and seeing what happens five years down the road. When you make those vows, you are making them in front of a community of relations and friends and also in front of God. It does somewhat change the stakes.
Our counseling was in the form of group marital counseling (so some couples were married for years). It was an eye opener to us–we would NEVER have THOSE problems! LOL.
Some of the problems in our group had to do with who was responsible for housework after a long day.
Some was related to taking care of kids on WAY too little sleep. Or no sleep at all if hormones are involved…
Kids and hormones were a totally foreign concept but eventually became a reality–better to know beforehand and go in as a team.
I will always remember one wife saying she got up at 2 am to do laundry because that was the ONLY quiet time she had strictly to herself and had any room to even think without having to take care of anybody. She wasn’t blaming anyone–just looking for solutions but it was a huge problem in their marriage simply because she was so tired all the time.
I thought that was HORRIBLE. I would NEVER do that! Until 20 years later I did basically the same thing. But then I knew it wasn’t a new problem in the world and was just another phase in life with kids.
Worth the price of admission to counseling…
Spending money–by the way–always pay cash for the car…best advice ever.
What I liked was another poster’s comment (a different thread, different context,) that her daughter and the man she is serious about (both young college grads and working in, I believe, initial career type positions) were waiting to have some career and financial stability built up before getting engaged. Then they would take their time to plan the wedding.
Of course, “different strokes for different folks.” A good union is a good union. I don’t think we’e telling OP she “has to” wait. I think we’re speaking of our own experiences, what the depth of commitment really means, as you go through life. We married (or formerly married) posters can allude to the challenges and understand each other. We’ve been through “life’s moments,” the ups and downs, expected and unexpected, good and tough. I think it’s like childbirth or child rearing (or the detour on one thread about breastfeeding) in that you can’t really accurately describe it to someone who hasn’t gone through it. And another can’t just “observe” and fully relate.
OP asked for discussion and that’s what all this is. Input. For, we hope, reasonable consideration.
Adding: I don’t have the same issue some have with stats. They’re not an absolute predictor, they’re sometimes a warning (that one’s dreams of perfection won’t always come true.) Those stats don’t come out of thin air, they’re real. I’d say, ignore them at your own risk. That doesn’t mean anyone is doomed if they marry young, but: eyes wide open. Be prepared.
I actually did live the single girl working life before being married. I didn’t meet DH until I was 24; I was 27 and some change when we got married, he was 28.
I can’t deny that those years were very very VERY fun. I lived with a couple of my best friends during those years. I learned how to budget independent of anyone else’s feelings, I dated around a bit, I had a kitten with no pushback from anyone, and had sole control of the remote for my bedroom TV. And I had my own bathroom.
That’s not to say one couldn’t go from parents to married with no period at all of total independence and still be happily married. I’m just saying I did it another way and it worked out as well. I wouldn’t change it to getting married earlier, even if I could.
That’s from the OP. And in my opinion, a rather flippant observation with regards to a marriage failing.
I’d say wait until you realize what a big deal it really is to have a marriage fail-I’ve seen it happen in my circle of friends and relatives, and it’s terribly painful and destructive for everyone involved. If you go into marriage with the attitude you mentioned above, I’d say you’re setting yourself up for failure.
There is no problem, if the couple does not have any, there is a big problem, if they have many. I do not understand the question. Marry at any age. You can also divorce if you change your mind later. What is an issue here? Some are living together for several years without getting married. There are different people who are living different lives. Pretty simple…
How are his parents “obligated by law” to pay his tuition and health insurance until age 26? There are no such statutes in the books… the only thing I can think of is that is part of a court approved divorce agreement? Or did you mean something else?
It is hard to fathom how painful it is until you see it happen. And it’s not always over quickly either. It reverberates for many years for some people.
This is the main reason I believe in very careful and thoughtful deliberation, and time.
In addition to the pain of divorce, a lot of people will spend many years trying to make it work when those years could have been spent differently and more happily.
OP- a couple of things you have written have raised red flags for me. The main one being that you just can’t seem to accept the thoughtful and caring opinion of many posters that you may not have the life experience to understand how truly difficult marriage can be. The gift of time is a precious commodity. I wish you well.
When the wife and I went through pre-marriage counseling for a weekend with 30 or so other couples, two of them found they had unresolved issues and left in the middle of it. I would assume, you both being engineers, that most things have been discussed, but I guarantee not all. The things you haven’t discussed could turn into big issues.
We were married when I was 28 and she was 23, a year after graduation. We had our third (and final) child when my wife was 29 years old. At 31, she had cancer that left her infertile. If we had waited, as many here are recommending, then we would have had no kids. You just never know.
You found someone you love, and he loves you? I say go for it, as long as you wait for your graduation. The statistics say more about they types of people who get married young. A good friend had an 18 year old girlfriend who used him as her ticket out of our small town. She was living with another man 3 weeks after getting married and moving to California. Ignore the statistics and trust your own judgement - it seems to have been pretty good so far.
Or you would have adopted, used a surrogate, or chosen not to have kids. You make the argument that you should have kids right away because “you never know”. I would refute that position by saying you wait until you believe you can be an effective, wise, and supportive parent, and choose from the options available to you at that time.
There are 8 BILLION people currently alive on the planet. Like my husband and I believe, and like I’ve told our daughters, there is no mandate for reproduction; there IS a mandate for leaving the world a better place than you entered it.
