What is your attitude toward underage drinking?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>I am an adult beverage drinker, and my attitude toward alcohol is that responsible use of alcohol for adults is OK. I grew up in the era when it was legal for 18 and older to drink, and I cannot recall true “binge” drinking among my peers. Sure, I remember people drinking to excess and getting sick, but nothing like what you hear on the news today. And when people did get really drunk, it wasn’t considered “cool.” It wasn’t considered something anyone wanted to repeat or emulate.</p>

<p>What I’m wondering is if binge drinking isn’t, in a way, an indirect result of the raised drinking age. For instance, say light beer (3.2) was legal for 18 or 19 year olds, but not hard liquor. It makes sense to me that younger drinkers would be drinking beer rather than vodka, which is the lesser of two evils. You have to drink an awful lot of light beer to get really intoxicated, and by the time you are, you’re too bloated to fill up anymore. Not so with a bottle of hard liquor.</p>

<p>I know at my S’s high school, vodka is the choice for surreptitious drinking. It’s easier to get, carry, and consume secretively. They take it to football games and dances and take swigs in the parking lot or behind the bleachers, so to speak. Or they go off to the beach or in a desolate area, pass the bottle around and drink it as quickly as possible. Before they know what hit them, they’re poisoned.</p>

<p>My older S says that beer drinking is common at his college, and not just with frats (he’s in one). However, he also says that in his frat, it’s generally considered uncool to get wasted and act obnoxious, definitely not good to be throwing up. If anything, they want to be able to drink beer and make it look like it’s not affecting them. (Real men can drink beer and all that…)</p>

<p>In general, it seems to me that the kids who really go insane with the boozing- binge drinking, drinking games, drop dead drunk behavior- are the ones who can’t talk to their parents about drinking. Their parents have a “never drink no matter what” attitude which precludes any open discussion about how to drink responsibly, albeit unlawfully. When I was growing up, my family allowed wine with special dinners, even before we were 18. My folks wanted us to know how to drink like “ladies and gentlemen.” Which meant having one or two drinks within a long period of time. And of course, for me (a lady), never take a drink from a stranger or leave a drink unattended. These things were discussed, even though I was not “supposed” to drink at all. </p>

<p>Does anyone here believe that prohibition, the “just say no” attitude, may increase the likelihood of irresponsible drinking behavior, or am I out on a limb?</p>

2

<p>“What I’m wondering is if binge drinking isn’t, in a way, an indirect result of the raised drinking age.”</p>

<p>It’s a nice theory, but there is no evidence for it. Binge drinking, heavy drinking, and alcohol consumption (as well as motor vehicle fatalities) are all DOWN since the drinking age was raised to 21. Binge and heavy drinking is up in a relatively small group of relatively well-to-do students at a select group of prestige and flagship state institutions.</p>

<p>Heavy drinking is also closely associated with age of first use (the earlier you start, the more likely you are to become a heavy drinker, experience alcohol problems in early adulthood, and become an alcoholic.)</p>

<p>France has a much higher rate of alcoholism, liver cancer, cirrhosis, and related alcohol problems than the U.S., as does Sweden and much of Europe where early drinking is the norm. What they don’t have is much in the way of residential college systems that resemble our prestige institutions.</p>

3

<p>Id rather that they have sex :slight_smile:
( um in a relationship… with protection…)</p>

<p>But no- I don’t think that forbidding it makes it more likely they will binge drink
On the contrary- I think parents who go the other way- and allow their teens to drink at home- have teens who reason that "their parents let them so…"I im not referring to drinks fora special occasion at home- but parents who let their kids have “parties and such” reasoning that as long as they know where they are it is OK
( I have a 24 yr old- who is a moderate drinker- barely drank at all in high school & a 16 year old who if she has ever been drunk would be a shock to me- considering that I always know where she is and who she is with)</p>

4

<p>I don’t advocate my kids’ abusing substances, but they also know that if they ever did try something- alcohol, pot, tobacco- while I wouldn’t LIKE it, I wouldn’t freak out either. I mean stuff like tearing the doors off their rooms, grounding them for months, etc. I’d tell them what an idiot they’re being and give them an earful, but they know I’d be realistic about it. A lot of their friends parents aren’t like that, and they’d be shocked at what their kids are doing behind their backs. Some of them are the worst drinkers of all, and their parents have absolutely no idea. Their kids lead double lives- it’s amazing at how good they are at lying and sneaking around.</p>

<p>I know one lady who was talking about her son and how he never drinks, never would. I had to bite my tongue because my son had just told me about how her kid was at a party a few weeks back and was toasted, drunk sick and silly. By the same token, there’s a lot to be learned by just looking at the myspace pages. There are quite a few kids at our HS who put pictures of themselves drinking, smoking, you name it. They think it’s cute. I brought it up to a mom and she told me she thought the pictures were “posed” and nothing was really going on. It just goes to show that some people really don’t want to face the facts.</p>

5

<p>I agree doubleplay
I have seen parents who allow their kids to hold parties at their summer home with no adults supervision( high school kids) not realizing that is giving them carte blanche to behave badly</p>

<p>I realize some may just be naive or some reason that " all kids do it" and nobody ( that they know) has died yet</p>

<p>I kept my kids on a pretty short leash- not because I didn’t trust them- but partially because they were very busy in school activities ( sports- theatre rehersal etc) and partially because they usually needed me to drive them and pick them up! so I knew where they were- and who was supervising.
I allowed them to make choices growing up so they learned how- but I also am a big believed in limited choice
I don’t beleive in giving kids lots of temptations and always expecting them to do “the right thing”.
I think the ability to not go for the short term gain comes with age and experience & I don’t want mine to make a bad choice that may change their life just because they are impulsive.</p>

<p>It helped when my D was in a small private high school- ( 18 in her class) and I knew all the parents because most of the kids had been in the school since 6th grade- and there were lots of opportunities over the years to get together- pretty unusual I realize-
my parents I doubt knew any of my classmates or their parents in our suburban high school, and we lived just about 1/2 miles away
Perhaps why I have really taken the opportunity to be a lot more involved in their schools and gotten to know their friends.
( younger D isnt so hot on that idea- but I love how her friends are so much more talkative than she is :wink: )
But to get to the drinking
It seems to occur in spots
some areas- it is more typical for kids to go all out- ( and some have said the same about their colleges)- either get totally wasted or totally abstain
Since we are not in the thick of either circle- I can’t really say what the motivation is
Older Ds college has a rep for drug use- and she did refer to one dorm jokingly as the “coke” dorm- but my impression was that while they do have a couple pretty wild nights a few times a year- there isn’t pressure to be involved and I know there are lots of students who are much more moderate and activities that aren’t dependent on using substances( and I know this not just from D reports but from visiting about 3 or 4 times a year for the last 4 years)</p>

<p>I have talked to the kids about drinking- because we have friends who have a different attitude about it for teens. BUt since my H is an alcoholic ( in recovery for 10 years) I just can’t feel comfortable letting them have ( when they were both under 21) watered down wine or whatever at home</p>

<p>I do use wine in cooking and occasionally I will have a beer- but I think my behavior is very important in teaching them respect for mind altering substances- I don’t ever say things like"god I need a drink" although I might think it … and I don’t drink more than a glass or maybe even two when we are out.</p>

<p>My younger daughter likes excitment as long as she is in control of it- not as much of a boy of her personality would be- but she seeks opportunities for risk without substances and I encourage that( like surfing and rockclimbing)
That is all that I think some kids are looking for</p>

<p>A way to “feel” something. I think some of them are exposed to so much stress through school/family life/the news, that they shut themselves down most of the time- and it is only when they are wasted that they can allow themselves to let loose.</p>

<p>I might be projecting- but the way some of the behavior is depicted it seems pathological, not just wanting to go out and do dumb things that you can blame on drinking</p>

6

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<p>Last year, my D had to come to the aid of one of her fellow Juniors who, after several hours of drinking prior to a Fri. nite football game, passed out, hit his head on the wooden seats and became unconscious…as a lifeguared, her friends knew she was certified in First Aid and quickly got her attention and called her over to help out. DD took one look at him and told the kids around them to call an ambulance. All told, 7 or 8 kids were suspended for drinking at the game.</p>

<p>Also, one of D’s friends was just picked up for the her second underage drinking violation…she was caught at the homecoming bonfire…since this is her 2nd offense, she looses her license for a year. Her athletic recruitment is in serious jeopardy. This is a kid from an Irish Catholic household where drinking to excess every weekend is “the norm.”</p>

<p>I also came from a household where a glass of wine on a special occasion was the norm, even before I turned 21. In my house, however, although DH and I do drink occasionally, we do not drink in front of DD or her friends, and there is no beer in the fridge. While we do have some bottles of alcohol, they are not in plain sight…if DD wanted to, she could find them, she just chooses not to.</p>

7

<p>I am from an Irish Catholic family in which the family culture was indeed rife with ‘occasions’ to drink…weddings, birthday parties, funerals, weekends…whatever. Two of my brothers have died from alcohol, one at 17 in a motorcycle accident, and the other just weeks ago from actual alcohol poisoning. In my extended family there are others who did not survive our alcohol-centered culture; several were very young. In my house, getting drunk, or even trying it, is absolutely not acceptable. It is illegal and I have taught both my daughters that they can have fun without it. Its a very hard road during adolescence, when everyone else is doing it. One of the hardest things is being patient with their drunk friends. My 21-year old daughter doesn’t go out as much as many of her friends, because its so annoying as the evening wears on watching people lose control of themselves. I drank as a teen. All of my friends drank, too. It was what was done. I just no longer see the added value, so I have made our home into a no-drinking zone. I caught a few boys in my basement sneaking beers recently. I just asked them to leave. No big deal. We’re not fanatic, just really careful. (plus we don’t want to lose our home in a lawsuit because some dumb kid drank at our house and killed someone on the way home) I hope my kids grow up to be responsible, sober people who can relax and have fun without drinking.</p>

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<p><a href=“plus%20we%20don’t%20want%20to%20lose%20our%20home%20in%20a%20lawsuit%20because%20some%20dumb%20kid%20drank%20at%20our%20house%20and%20killed%20someone%20on%20the%20way%20home”>quote=tanyanubin</a>

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<p>I agree. I think that efforts to educate kids about dangers of drinking are worthwhile, but I also think much more could be done to educate adults regarding the dangers of kids drinking in their homes and on their watch. Kids may well feel invinceable and resist the messages, but adults should better be able to realize that the consequences of providing alcohol to underage drinkers include not just being perceived as “cool” parents, but could also include, as you say, losing their home. If appealing to adults’ sense of what’s the right thing to do from a health and legal standpoint doesn’t work, perhaps appealing to their love of material things and a good life might.</p>

9

<p>I think there is a tie between binge drinking and getting caught in some cases. I remember the fear of having to dump it out… increasing the speed of consumption. I think that base fear is still there for alot of kids. </p>

<p>The other aspect of binge drinking is the liquid courage many “think” alcohol gives them. By courage I don’t mean just to fight, but more to socialize with the opposet sex. If they mess up, “Well I was reeeeallly drunk…” </p>

<p>I think the reasons are too different than what they were when we were kids. </p>

<p>With my kids, I don’t discourage underage drinking, I encourage applying common sense to the situation. Drink slow, enjoy a nice (expensive) beer instead of chugging “PBR” (Papst Blue Ribbon), or a nice gin tonic or mary. Avoid drinks that because of sugar content increase alcohol’s effect and make you feel awful the next day. For the most part, the advice has been taken and applied.</p>

10

<p>I am against underage drinking. My sons did not drink in high school, did/do drink in college while still underage. They don’t drink a lot, but they are open with me about it, because they know that, while I don’t approve, I will not condemn them for it. My husband and I rarely drink alcohol, and the only alcohol in the house is that used in cooking.</p>

<p>The heaviest drinker my son knows at college is a young man whose parents allowed him to drink (“in moderation”) at home even while in high school AND allowed his friends to drink when at their house. (I don’t know if the other kids’ parents knew or gave permission.) My son is very concerned that this young man will end up an alcoholic.</p>

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<p>from inside higher education Oct.23 A Strategic Approach to Drinking
<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/10/23/pre_game[/url]”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/10/23/pre_game&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>mini’s evidence notwithstanding, there is more pressure to “pregame” when there is no possibility of drinking again, after you’ve left your room. I was no saint in college-- but I do not remember EVER having drinks in my dorm room, let alone multiple drinks in my dorm room, prior to going out.</p>

13

<p>I am totally against underage drinking. Our little spot on the map has had at least two high school kids, that we knew, die in traffic accidents that were apparently alcohol related. More we did not personally know also died.</p>

<p>That’s waaaaay too many young lives snuffed out. Alcohol is a primary reason these kids are dead.</p>

<p>No more funerals.</p>

<p>We still enjoy our wine and more at home, but NO to underage drinking.</p>

14

<p>Pre-gaming doesn’t have much meaning when all that is available at the game is a keg of warm, sudsy beer - even for 18-year-olds. (Maybe that should be called the “post-game”.)</p>

<p>Pre-gaming happens because colleges choose to turn a blind eye, RAs receive little or no direction and may actually purchase the booze themselves, college presidents are afraid to enforce the law for fear that they will be then held liable when things go wrong, and community mores and norms have broken down at a relatively small number of prestige private colleges and flagship state universities.</p>

<p>And there is no way out. When my d. did a Thursday overnight at my alma mater, the freshwomen started drinking before dinner and took flasks to an a capella concert. But they all complained about the loud, drunken men in the next entry who made it impossible for them to study in their rooms three or four nights a week. When my d. asked what would happen if you didn’t want to live next door to a bunch of loud, drunken men, they looked at her as if she’d landed from Mars.</p>

<p>I’m pleased to report that this was NOT the case at a bunch of other colleges and universities she looked at.</p>

15

<p>This was a problem at Florida State until recently. Notice how the school is no longer at the tops of several ‘party school’ lists. It’s because the current administration has put their foot down and is working to stop what they can.</p>

<p>The FSU PD will arrest any underage kid caught drinking. My daughter’s roommate was arrested last year - when the girl was a freshman. </p>

<p>Harsh, but necessary I think. It has cooled the underage drinking to a degree.</p>

16

<p>Same has happened at U. Oklahoma, Northern Illinois U., University of Georgia; UMass just went that way this term, I think. It’s not the only way to step up to the plate, but no one can argue that it doesn’t work.</p>

17

<p>As a teacher and a parent here are my feelings. I know my oldest daughter consumed alcohol underage when she went to college. I have no real problem with that. I figure there’s a real possibility my youngest will as well when she goes to school. My son doesn’t seem to have any real interest in drinking so who knows with him. In fact, he works for the sheriff’s office and one of the things he has to do is alcohol enforcement for businesses that sell to minors.</p>

<p>My wife and I do not allow our children to drink at home. They have had a taste of wine or beer or something but not more than that. (from us) We drink, but we drink responsibly so we do model that for our kids. What other people do with regard to allowing their kids to drink is their business. I would be highly ****ed though if the parents of our kids’ friends gave them alcohol at their houses. (not that I think they would) It really bothers me when adults let other people’s kids drink.</p>

18

<p>What’s weird- is that I never experienced “pregaming”- we just went out and had a few Legal Beers. I can’t remember entering a (first) bar NOT sober. I see behavior related to secretive drinking that is far more dangerous than just going out and having a few drinks.</p>

19

<p>If you are endangering yourself or others and intoxicated, you loose your merit, scholarship, federal guaranteed loans; </p>

<p>Or we ignore your problem, but may God have mercy upon your soul if you ever harm anyone, and upon your benefactors.</p>

20

<p>Drinking isn’t a right of passage – it is a dangerous and often illegal behavior in colleges. What really bothers me is that at my daughter’s school, Mary Washington, and probably many others, the students and the school faculty and staff seem to be conspiring to make the “no tolerance” story they tell parents a sham. </p>

<p>I heard from my DD that the RAs jingle their keys outside of rooms before alcohol checks. I’ve also seen the series of articles in local papers and on the web (<a href=“http://www.ncaahazing.com%5B/url%5D”>www.ncaahazing.com</a>) with photos of the Mary Washington women’s basketball team which depict, among other things, the drinking of a yellow foaming substance through beer bongs. A vice president met the the implicated “basketball team members who said underclassmen were funneling apple juice in the beer bong.” Looking at the photos, I wonder what brand of apple juice has a head on it like that?</p>

<p>It’s bad enough that the students think the laws don’t apply to them. It’s almost unforgivable when the schools seem to facilitate this behavior.</p>