What is your attitude toward underage drinking?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Nice links, emeraldkity, especially the NY Times article. I have a LOT of addictions, and one or two I cannot break. Espresso is one of them - I even pack it - plus coffee filters - while on business trips, because regular coffee just doesn’t do it for me any more, and so when I’m in a hotel room I mix my own poison. Eclipse gum is another - oh, and workouts? I actually pay membership to three separate national/regional gyms, two specialized clubs (water sports), and a ski club, just so I’m never deprived of my workout fix. Technology, I’m stuck - two laptops, multiple wireless subscriptions, and a blackberry and a backup - I actually answer email while driving. Like the guy in the article, torture is being stuck in an airport where there is no wireless connection, or, being stuck somewhere, completely out of espresso and the stores only sell Folgers. </p>

<p>But I don’t think the college students and those under age as referenced in the thread have any particular addictions, and maybe even don’t have the temperment or are the type to become addicted. There sure doesn’t seem to be any logical explanation as to why they feel the need to drink, and there doesn’t seem to be very much colleges can really do to curb it. One thing that strikes me - it seems that freshman at least bring their inclinations, immaturity, etc. straight from home. Colleges can adopt and enforce policy, sure, but, it’s not like they deal with a stable population - by design, the college community is transient - whatever policies are issued today to answer the misbehavior of the current group will be obsolete in 3-4 years. Therefore it seems as if even if colleges do find some silver bullet to resolve underage drinking, some other equally bad or worse thing will move in to fill in the gap (drugs, pooping in more places, who knows what) - because the ingredients that compel a personality to do the wrong thing are surely fertilized in the person who arrives at the college, and those seeds planted at home, right?</p>

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<p>I think I should send this thread to the fool who served beers at his 12 yr. old son’s birthday party. Glad we didn’t let our son go, but the Dad made ME feel like I was the kook when I called him on it! Wonders never cease.</p>

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<p>“But I don’t think the college students and those under age as referenced in the thread have any particular addictions, and maybe even don’t have the temperment or are the type to become addicted.”</p>

<p>Actually, they do. An article published in the American Journal of Public Health last May found that “heavy drinkers” (2+ drinks a day nearly everyday) between the ages of 15-21 were almost twice as likely to qualify as alcoholics under the DSM-IV as adults meeting the same criteria.</p>

<p>What is different is that, because their bodies have not yet in the main broken down, one is less likely to see them as street alcoholics, or in the hospital with liver disorders, cancer, cirrhosis, etc. Doesn’t make them any less alcoholics - it’s just earlier in the disease progression.</p>

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<p>im just curious if you were getting on a plane and you knew that the pilot smoked ciggerates would you care, or how about if you knew he did drugs</p>

<p>so there really should be no reason to compare tobacco to drugs</p>

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<p>lealdragon:

No - my point was very simple - the one about how so many young people start smoking cigs when it’s so well known about the dangers.</p>

<p>To counterpoint myself and you though regarding your statement that it doesn’t provide any ‘benefit’ while alcohol/drugs provide the ‘benefit’ of the high (correct me if I’m paraphrasing incorrectly), I’ve read a number of articles where some of these young people justify their smoking by the ‘benefits’ of weight control, the effect of the nicotine high, an enjoyable pasttime, etc.</p>

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<p>I admit that I haven’t read all the posts in this thread, but this one got my attention:</p>

<p>“Personally, I’d love to see changes in advertising, similar to what’s happening with smoking.”</p>

<p>This week there was a news story about a study in some medical journal which showed that anti-smoking advertising INCREASES teen age smoking. </p>

<p>Obviously, that’s not the same as banning advertising FOR products. However, the results of the study indicated that the more anti-smoking ads there were in a media market, the higher the percentage of kids who smoked.</p>

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<p>"im just curious if you were getting on a plane and you knew that the pilot smoked ciggerates would you care, or how about if you knew he did drugs</p>

<p>so there really should be no reason to compare tobacco to drugs…"</p>

<p>I was primarily comparing ALCOHOL to drugs. You wouldn’t board that plane if you knew the pilot had had a few beers, would you?</p>

<p>I only brought up tobacco in the context of the ‘why’ people get high/drink - someone said the only purpose of smoking pot was to get high and I was responding to that.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t board that plane if I knew the pilot had done any drugs or alcohol, or had not gotten a good night’s sleep, for that matter. Or had a bad cold, or was in a foul mood, had just had a fight with his wife…all of which could affect his judgment and physical reflexes. But no, cigs are not in that category, except for maybe getting momentarily distracted while he lit up. That’s why insurance companies give lower rates to non-smokers, btw.</p>

<p>If you mean to imply that I am somehow saying that pot is no ‘worse’ than cigs, then you have missed all of my points. So, let me reiterate: I am vehemently against ALL drugs. I consider all of the above to be drugs. I even consider sugar to be a drug. And caffeine. </p>

<p>I am simply trying to point out the hypocrisy of people who think drinking alcohol is benign and pot is the epitome of evil. I am simply trying to put them in perspective. Both are drugs. One is worse than the other in some ways, while the other is worse in other ways. I think we need to be honest that it is socially acceptable to do some drugs but not others, but they are all still drugs.</p>

<p>Pot and alcohol are both mind-altering and both affect one’s ability to operate machinery, control bodily functions, reflexes, etc. Tobacco does not. However, all are addictive and unhealthy.</p>

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<p>"No - my point was very simple - the one about how so many young people start smoking cigs when it’s so well known about the dangers.</p>

<p>To counterpoint myself and you though regarding your statement that it doesn’t provide any ‘benefit’ while alcohol/drugs provide the ‘benefit’ of the high (correct me if I’m paraphrasing incorrectly), I’ve read a number of articles where some of these young people justify their smoking by the ‘benefits’ of weight control, the effect of the nicotine high, an enjoyable pasttime, etc."</p>

<p>I agree with all of the above - I wonder that myself, how young people can start smoking when it’s such common knowledge as to its dangers - so maybe I misinterpreted your original comment. I don’t have time to go back and reread it now but I thought you were saying something about smoking pot to get high was somehow ‘bad’ whereas having a drink socially was somehow ‘ok’ to which I was responding that in both instances there is a very physical ‘benefit’ of altering how one feels. Sure, smoking cigs does offer some benefits, even if it’s just being accepted by the so-called ‘cool’ crowd, but it does not IMMEDIATELY affect the body and mind, does not provide an instant high the way that pot and alcohol do. Smoking cigs’ benefits are less tangible. Drugs/alcohol are instant and physical.</p>

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<p>

My friends who are smokers would likely disagree with the above. When they feel the need for a cig they generally want it NOW. When they have to sit in a business meeting they make a beeline for outside at any of the breaks so they can get the fairly instant effect from their cigs. There’s definitely a physical effect from it. This is one of the reasons it’s so hard for them to quit. The other problem with it is that it’s not occasional like social drinking might be. It doesn’t have the same extreme effect that overindulgence of alcohol/drugs has but it has a daily impact nonetheless.</p>

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<p>I hear you are neglecting your papyri and abandoning yourself to dancing. You haunt one tavern after another, driven by your thirst for beer. People avoid you as you stagger along the street. You should try and cut out drinking and realize that drunkness robs you of your dignity. You are being false to your own spirit.
-Egyptian scribe to his pupil, ca 1600 BCE</p>

<p>Concern about underage drinking seems to be a universal theme. :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>"When they feel the need for a cig they generally want it NOW. "</p>

<p>Ah, but this is after they’ve already been addicted for some time. That is just the addiction they are feeling. Addiction works like this: it’s not so much a good feeling that they are seeking, but an end to the bad feeling they are experiencing. Feeding the addiction gets rid of the bad feeling and bring the person back up to normal. It’s relief, not a high. The same kind of relief one feels when they finally get to the bathroom after standing in a long line.</p>

<p>Pot and alcohol, in contrast, provide an instant high, the very first time. It is tangible. Cigarette smokers do not feel that instant high the first time they light up. The first time is more likely to result in fits of coughing, if anything. It’s only after the addiction has taken hold that they feel that urgency to feed the addiction monster now dwelling within them.</p>

<p>And, I might add, I have never know anyone to feel that sense of urgency about getting high, the way they do about cigs and drink. Pot is more psychologically addictive rather than physically addictive. Still addictive, but in a different way. The monster of pot addiction makes the person feel that they cannot cope with real life unless they ‘take the edge off.’ They then tend to procrastinate in dealing with their problems, because it is so much easier to just…relax…take a toke…put on some music…ah…sooooo much better…</p>

<p>And so it goes. After 30 years or so of getting high, the pot smoker often wonders why s/he never achieved success in life. Ah, but no matter, there’s always manana…</p>

<p>See, it’s a subtle thing. But very insidious. You want to go to college and be successful? You’re more likely to still be successful in terms of making lots of $$ if you drink or smoke cigs, as opposed to getting high. Smoking pot tends to get in the way of ambition.</p>

<p>But, one would be more likely to die an early and painful death from cigs or alcohol.</p>

<p>Take your pick.</p>

<p>Better yet, be smart AND live…avoid all of them.</p>

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<p>

As a person who doesn’t smoke, do drugs, or drink more than 1 or 2 light beers (purposely so I can’t ‘feel’ it), I agree with this one.</p>

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<p>Glad we agree on something! :-)</p>

<p>I would like to add that, now that I’ve (hopefully) clarified my point about heavy drinking being worse than heavy pot smoking in many ways, I do think that LIGHT drinking is probably LESS harmful than light pot smoking.</p>

<p>As in, a single beer or glass of wine with a meal doesn’t really have any effect at all (except for not driving after the meal), and may even (in the case of the wine) have some health value…whereas, some light toking can fog up the brain and it sometimes can take a few days to fully clear the haze. Sad thing is, people often do not even notice the haze until they’ve gone a few weeks without getting high, get their heads clear, then toke again. It can be a very subtle thing, and many pot-smokers adamantly insist it doesn’t happen at all,</p>

<p>Heavy pot-smoking affects long-term memory, too, btw, something I forgot to mention in the comparison. So, destroy the liver, the lungs, or the memory? Again, take your pick.</p>

<p>Splitting hairs here…I still contend it’s all best avoided.</p>

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<p>

:)</p>

<p>…</p>

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<p>Aw…I guess I set myself up for that, didn’t I?</p>

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<p>Actually, unless you are drinking 8 oz of espresso, you’ll get more caffeine from drip or brewed coffee: Coffee, Drip 115-175mg
Coffee, Brewed 80-135mg
Coffee, Espresso (2 ounces) 100mg</p>

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<p>C, I drink it prepared very strong, and in cups - like regular coffee…and two or three cups when I wake up.</p>

<p>I tried to quit drinking coffee, years ago. Got very headachy and spacy, couldn’t do it. I find that with espresso in the morning, I can go all day and well into the night - don’t need to drink any more during the afternoon, etc.</p>

<p>Soon as life slows down a bit and I can really focus - maybe over a long vacation or something, I’m going to try quitting again, and putting all of my effort into. I really don’t like that I am allowing a substance to have this kind of power over me.</p>

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<p>Black tea also has caffiene and it has more health benefits than coffee
My husband is from a scandinavian family and they drink coffee from morning till night.- (nasty stuff too- ever been to a Lutheran church supper? )if you stop suddenly you will get a rebound headache.
The medicine that I and D use for migraines has caffiene- which is the only thing that works - reg tylenol doesn’t( we used to also take Aleve- but that may have even been taken off the market)</p>

<p>Both of us however are also on medicine for ADD- I am on a stimulant- Adderal XR that takes several hours to kick in- and I don’t need to take anymore all day. It works fairly well-and doesn’t have the tooth grinding effect that regular Ritalin does- but because it is a controlled substance- I have to go in and get the prescription- the doc can’t call it in.</p>

<p>Both the girls are on Straterra- which is a SNRI that has been used for ADD which isn’t a controlled substance-however- it has more side effects and after talking to John Ratey who is a Harvard med prof and an expert on ADD, I hope that their docs can find something for them, that doesn’t have the side effects- ( they both have a lot of stomach problems with it)
<a href=“http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6155178[/url]”>Coffee: A Little Really Does Go a Long Way : NPR;
<a href=“http://www.enotalone.com/article/6228.html(%5B/url%5D”>http://www.enotalone.com/article/6228.html(</a> this is also an interesting article- discusses how nutrition supports brain function)</p>

<p>I realize this doesn’t have so much with underage drinking- especaily not binge drinking- but re ADHD, many studies have shown that youth who have ADD and are treated for it, are much less likely to abuse substances.
Which is why- since my husbands family has a dominant gene for alcoholism, I have come to terms with my children needing to have medication as well.</p>

<p>Everyone- even if they don’t think they have ADHD, can benefit from research indicating how to improve the function of our brains. (aerobic exercise is not just good for our heart and lungs- it helps our brain work better too - which is important not only for adults as they get older, but for kids who are drawn to more sedentary activities like video games or substance abuse)
<a href=“http://www.johnratey.com/[/url]”>http://www.johnratey.com/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Hooray for beer!!!</p>

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<p>Spoke with friend last night about our kids’ college experiences so far (different schools), and we got on the subject of drinking. There have been several incidents of hospitalization/near death drinking at both his and my son’s schools. I do not recall, not one time, in my four years at college, knowing of someone being taken to the emergency room for alcohol poisoning. I remember a friend taking too many pills (attempted suicide) and a girl in high school who had to go to the hospital because of drinking, which was a huge deal. I remember people getting sick, or having a hangover, but not severe alcohol poisoning. My friend could not remember any incidents as well. Today I asked two more friends if they ever remember anyone getting so sloshed that they had to go to the emergency room, and they couldn’t. So my question is- what is going on??? </p>

<p>Not that we didn’t drink in college. But most of my memories center around going uptown and hanging out at local pubs or the “disco” (remember those?). I never remember sitting around a dorm room doing shots, like they do now. I don’t remember drinking to get drunk. I don’t remember many other people drinking to get drunk.</p>

<p>I worked behind a bar in college (just served beer and wine). Occasionally we would have a group come in and start playing drinking games, and the one of the guys would put a stop to it. Mostly, people just stood around drinking beer, talking, and playing pinball. I discussed this with my son and for the life of me, do not understand binge drinking. Is it just me, or is this becoming more and more prevalent, and if so, why?</p>