<p>Putting aside the issue of legality of underage drinking, it sounds like a freshman assigned to this dorm who does not drink would feel out of place if, as you say, the social life revolves completely around alcohol. It is a shame that there are not other things for the social life to revolve around.</p>
<p>My D is still in high school, and she’s 17. She’s had alcohol already under the following circumstances:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>We were visiting our family in Ireland, and no matter how many times we said no, and D said no, my Auntie would not let her not drink. She nursed a Bailey’s for an entire evening.</p></li>
<li><p>On the same trip, we went to Paris for 5 days. D and my husband and I all shared a bottle of wine, although it was mostly my husband who did the drinking. And the cute server at one restaurant gave us each a free cocktail (I’m not sure what it was, something sweet) because he wanted to impress D (they still e-mail each other).</p></li>
<li><p>On an overnight visit to MIT, she and her ex-boyfriend (who attends MIT) and his friends, a small group of about 6, all shared a bottle of wine at dinner.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I generally object to underage drinking as a rule. I’m not a big drinker myself - if I have five alcoholic beverages a year, that’s a pretty heavy drinking year for me - but I do have alcoholics in my family. Alcohol is not part of her social life, instead, she is addicted to computer games like WOW. She tends to be a bit of a moralizing prude (she is always disappointed to discover a friend has become sexually active or drinks or uses drugs).</p>
<p>D and I have a great relationship, and I have a great deal of trust in her. We have excellent communication, and she knows she can talk to me about anything - not without consequences, but I will listen and understand before I judge.</p>
<p>I don’t think this particular dorm is unique in any way. I think it would be hard to be at this or most any other college and NOT be a drinker. My kid is taking full advantage of the social scene- alcohol and all. When I was a freshman in college (2 years younger than my son) I did the same thing. If my son ever got a DUI or was involved in an alcohol-related accident, he knows he would never have a car funded by us or have access to the family cars. He has never allowed his social life to affect his grades or his athletic training. I told him he better really think about how much drinking he should be doing. That’s all I can do. I talked to my daughter (22, senior at different school) about it and she said her school was the same way. She said her drinking has changed a lot since she turned 21 last year. She said now they go to bars and have a couple beers or glasses of wine to socialize instead of winding up at parties where kids are doing shots or keg stands.</p>
<p>“…Putting aside the issue of legality of underage drinking, it sounds like a freshman assigned to this dorm who does not drink would feel out of place if, as you say, the social life revolves completely around alcohol…”</p>
<p>My son just turned 18 and all the people he used to hang out with playing video games & D&D now just want to get wasted. Any suggestions on advice to give to a straightedge kid who now feels left out of the social scene? He tried going to some of the parties and said he didn’t mind too much being the only one sober, but the other kids seemed to mind. He feels he has lost his connection to his friends. Suddenly he’s without a social circle, except for the girls he dates. We’re planning for him to transfer to the local state U. in the spring (he’s homeschooled, is supposed to be in 12th grade, and has been attending dual-credit classes at the cc) in an effort for him to broaden his social circle. (The plan is for him to transfer to his college of choice in the fall.) but now I don’t know if he’ll find kids who can party without drinking/getting high, even there! I’m at a loss as to what to tell him. (No, it’s not because he’s been homeschooled. He’s had no trouble meeting people from the homeschool co-op, my space, etc. although obviously not as MANY as if he’d been at school - the problem is finding people who can have fun without getting wasted.) We’re in San Antonio.</p>
<p>He has no trouble being firm in his convictions. The trouble is that none of his former friends are ever interested in doing anything except getting wasted.</p>
<p>Any suggestions would be appreciated!</p>
<p>My daughter is not a prude, but she did not enjoy being at a college where the social scene was as described by MomofWildChild. She did not like being one of the only ones not drinking, and not feeling part of things. She actually transferred to another college where there is more balance and options in the social life (which happens to be an excellent college in general and for her field of study.) Transferring is an extreme step, and I am not necessarily recommending, but that was her solution to this issue.</p>
<p>My son went through this as a senior in HS and is now a non drinker at a large state U party school. I think it bothered me much more than it bothered him when he started staying home more often or came home earlier from parties in HS as all his friends started the party scene.</p>
<p>He is away at college and slowly putting a group of non drinking friends together. He is very busy with school ec’s which helps. His day revolves around school, ec’s, eating and working out.</p>
<p>Back in 9th grade he “discovered” working out. I think for a guy this helps tremendously. It reduces stress and tires him out. It becomes friendly competition with friends and makes him feel good about himself. It gives him structure to his free time. Additionally it gains him a great deal of respect from all his friends drinking and non and with this comes no pressure to change his ways. Often times they will follow his lead for awhile. This is what he does. Not the answer for everyone but it works for him.</p>
<p>MomofWildChild, actually, I don’t eat candy, either. I have nothing against it or against people who do, I just simply do not like it. I also don’t hold it against people who drink “socially” (whatever that is supposed to mean), but, personally, I simply cannot stand the sight, smell, taste, etc., or anything else about alcohol, and I especially cannot stand being around people who are even slightly under the influence, and, hard as I try, I seriously cannot understand why anyone wants to drink alcohol, ever. What possible purpose does it serve?</p>
<p>On those rare circumstances where I have a few sips of something - usually a wedding, or a situation where someone is being toasted - I actually seem to get sick from it - even a few sips of champaign will give me a headache, and I’ll feel out of sorts the next day. </p>
<p>My daughter though is a bit different - I believe since freshman year she has tried every sort of drink at least once. She loves parties, and while she is almost always the designated driver, she has nothing at all against alcohol, and, if she’s not the DD, it doesn’t bother her at all to have a drink with her friends, etc. Her group tends to be a rather conservative, in-bed-by10 sort of crowd, though admittedly driven by athletic obligations. She thinks this is all totally fine. And, since she never seems to get “impaired”, and since her grades, etc., everything else in her life is going well, and especially since she doesn’t involve herself in situations where persons who are underage gain access to alcohol, or where people are getting drunk, I have zero grounds to complain or criticize. But she knows I strongly dislike the association, and think it’s a waste of time and resources, and serves no purpose.</p>
<p>I have nothing against people who choose to not drink. I think it is a very wise decision in many instances. However, your posts clearly contradict your statements that you have “nothing against people who drink”. You made it clear that anyone who might enjoy the taste of alcohol or the social environment of getting together for a couple of drinks is a sub-human and beyond your comprehension. I wonder what the reaction would be if someone made those same statements about someone who was Jewish, had a partner of a different race or liked cats? I suspect there is something else going on here.</p>
<p>^ There really isn’t. I have no negative experiences with alcohol, and no one close to me has ever been an alcoholic, or anything like that. Actually, I don’t have any experiences of any kind with alcohol. I just really hate the stuff, and I hate how people behave when they’re even slightly tipsy. I have no idea why it’s so disgusting to me - it simply is. But I don’t treat people differently if they drink, with the exception that I usually distance myself pretty quickly. I do get that a great number of people drink alcohol in a social sense, and they’re perfectly normal, competent, and very likeable, although, to me, they’re considerably less interesting when they’re drinking, even if it’s only one glass of something. </p>
<p>I tasted beer once, many years ago, and it was disgusting - tasted sort of like insect spray. Champaign tastes like cleaning fluid, and I tried a rum and coke once, and - same result. Tastes horrible, smells worse. I have no earthly idea why people drink alcohol.</p>
<p>I also don’t understand why it’s legal, if marijuana, cocaine, heroin and the likes are not. To me, the differences are indistinguishable - with the possible exception that drugs like cocaine probably don’t smell as bad. </p>
<p>I find cigarettes yucky too, but, the difference being, people who smoke don’t tend to exhibit appalling behavior in public, with the exception of course that everyone else gets poisoned by their smoke.</p>
<p>I wondered why the lacrosse coach at my son’s school has a mandatory 6 am workout on Friday morning. NOW I get it!</p>
<p>Never mind whether alcohol is tolerated by the team (it’s not) – you simply can’t party until the wee hours and then show up and perform at these workouts. And if you want to run with the big boys in the spring – an athlete has to work all year for that chance. How the athletes perform at the Friday morning workouts is important: the coaches are watching and taking notes.</p>
<p>Yep. Early morning workouts - and athletic ambition - will quickly curb the drive to party all night. </p>
<p>But having said that, I wish I understood why college students feel the need - or even have the interest - to drink. I cannot understand why and how it can possibly be any fun to have one’s brain transported elsewhere, and/or to get so sick one has to throw up, and/or feel rotten the next day.</p>
<p>I mean, given a choice, surely no one would choose to have a cold, or the flu. So why do they choose to get sick and hung over? I seriously do not understand the attaction.</p>
<p>Wow- I never realized people get less interesting after one glass of wine. Hard to understand why the stuff is still around!</p>
<p>
I will have to trust you on your knowledge of the “under the sink” products. You have to draw a line somewhere, and I for one am “drawing the line at 409”. (Just kidding.)</p>
<p>LOL, I haven’t tried Draino yet, but I imagine it probably tastes like scotch, or perhaps vodka. :)</p>
<p>MomofWildChild, I simply have never, ever seen anything good, desirable, useful, or productive come out of alcohol comsumption. And in my experience, people who begin drinking, and begin losing inhibitions do things and say things they later regret. I see it happen with my clients all the time - now, I ADORE my clients, and they all have very nice careers; they’re all highly educated, most with law degrees or other, and their accomplishments far exceed mine. I’ll order wine with dinner, and when they start drinking, before you know it, they’ll start telling me all sorts of things that they would otherwise never talk about - I hear everything from internal politics to what was on their last performance evaluation to the size of their salaries and even what’s going on in their marriages - who is having affairs - including one case where the woman is being abused. These aren’t kids - these people are in their 40’s, 50’s, and older. It’s not like they actually get drunk = it’s just that they get relaxed enough to start telling me things that I’m sure they really don’t ever conciously (sp?) plan to share. And at the end of the day, I’m just a vendor - in relationship terms no different really than their toilet paper or paper towel or office supply vendor. </p>
<p>But, they’re my clients, and when they say “jump”, I say “how high”; when they snap their fingers, I hop on the closest airplane to respond, and so on; I value them highly, and so if they want wine with dinner, wine will be served. But I would be MUCH happier, and I am sure THEY would be happier too in the long run, if we could keep the discussion topics to business issues, and how I can better serve their enterprises. And I am certain we could keep to business topics if no wine ever arrived at the table. </p>
<p>At a minimum, we could avoid the discomfort that happens the day or week after, when I have to talk to one of them on a business item, and they’re all embarrassed because at our dinner, a glass or two of wine in, they told me about their marital issues and they wish they hadn’t. </p>
<p>Back to college students, I cannot imagine that students across the board, at all campuses, would not have a happier, more fullfulling and productive experience if they didn’t drink. I do not understand how one can function, let alone take the fullest possible advantage of coursework, ECs and other opportunities on a college campus when one is hung over, if time has been invested in what appears to me to be a rather senseless, useless and expensive activity. </p>
<p>I admit I’m probably a little over the top on the subject, but, I simply see nothing even remotely good about drinking, in any form.</p>
<p>That is so true. I remember once my boss got really drunk at a Christmas party and started confiding in me all sorts of things. He nearly started crying in my office about his girlfriend (also an employee). It was rather disconcerting and the next day he was quite embarrassed.</p>
<p>–</p>
<p>…I think it would be hard to be at this or most any other college and NOT be a drinker…</p>
<p>…My son went through this as a senior in HS and is now a non drinker at a large state U party school. I think it bothered me much more than it bothered him when he started staying home more often or came home earlier from parties in HS as all his friends started the party scene. He is away at college and slowly putting a group of non drinking friends together…</p>
<p>In my son’s case, it definitely bothers him a lot. He knows so many people but can’t seem to find anyone to hang out with. He has plenty of dates but not a group of kids, not a social circle. He just turned 18 and couldn’t have a party because he couldn’t mix the girls he dates, and all the guys just want to get wasted. He said they would think his party ‘lame.’ How sad!</p>
<p>I keep telling him that in Jan. when he transfers to a 4-year U (the local state U, as a stepping stone to his college of choice in the fall) he will surely meet lots of like-minded people. When we went on the tour, we saw posters about all sorts of clubs - even a Buddhist club and an athiest club and a ‘Turkish students’ club, so surely there would be a club for straightedge people, right???</p>
<p>But now, after reading all these posts, I am not so sure! Is it common for there to be straightedge clubs at the large state U.? He plans to go to UT Austin in the fall, because it’s a great school, nearby (so he can be independent yet close to home), has a vibrant social and political scene, etc., but just how much of that is centered around drinking/drugging? I’ve been told that since it is so huge there are all types of people, so I am counting on that being true. I know there are more conservative schools that probably have less partying, but he would not fit in there for other reasons!</p>
<p>He will also be applying to 2 oos schools that are much smaller, 2500 and 4000 students respectively. Wouldn’t he be LESS likely to find straightedge students from among a smaller pool of students, even if the colleges are less known as ‘party schools’ overall? One of them says they don’t have much drinking but plenty of pot smoking. He’s never tried pot but I’d almost rather he be around the drinkers because they’re more obnoxious, thus more likely to reinforce his views. I know from experience that being around people getting high often eventually leads to the conclusion that it ain’t so bad. (and it isn’t, compared to alcohol, imo. But it’s still ‘bad.’)</p>
<p>What I’m getting at is: which would be more likely to have enough like-minded people to form a social circle: a large party school or a small ‘middle-of-the-road’ school?</p>
<p>“Yep. Early morning workouts - and athletic ambition - will quickly curb the drive to party all night.”</p>
<p>Not necessarily. Alcoholics (and there are many among teenagers - perhaps 7% of teens over the age 15, give or take) develop a high tolerance fairly quickly. They generally speaking don’t experience hangovers, though they may experience withdrawal symptoms if they don’t drink. So for some, early morning workouts and heavy drinking on Thursday nights are not incompatible. </p>
<p>“What I’m getting at is: which would be more likely to have enough like-minded people to form a social circle: a large party school or a small ‘middle-of-the-road’ school?”</p>
<p>I have no data on UT. I can tell you that at some state schools, UColorado and Penn State immediately come to mind, binge drinking in the past two weeks approaches 65-70% (higher for white males). Since abstainers make up around 20% of the population, give or take, you can quickly see that the percentage of “moderate drinkers” (especially among white males) is a really smallish number. But the flip side is that a small percentage at a really large university is still a significant number, and is augmented by larger numbers of graduate students who likely drink less. You just have to find them.</p>
<p>Genetics plays such an important role (scientists have already isolated at least 7 alleles related to alcoholism, ranging from those which regulate alcohol metabolism to those involved in taste). Moderate drinking for some quickly becomes problem drinking for others. One size definitely does not fit all.</p>
<p>“Since abstainers make up around 20% of the population”</p>
<p>Where did you get this number? Is that the percentage of the population overall, or at at particular college?</p>
<p>Statistically, there is more alcohol use and binge drinking at schools where there is a dominant Greek system, state schools with prominant athletics, and schools located in the Northeast. Penn State falls into all 3 of these categories; UT-Austin falls into the first 2. And, not that rankings hold much weight, but I do find it interesting that in addition to having the honor of being the top 2 party schools in the country, these two also hold the following dubious honors according to Princeton Review:</p>
<p>Penn State is listed with high rankings in 10 categories including: Party School, Students (Almost) Never Study, Students Pack Stadiums, Jock School, Lots of Beer, Lots of Liquor, Major Frat & Sorority Scene.</p>
<p>UT-Austin has 11 high rankings including: Party School, Students (Almost) Never Study, Students Pack Stadiums, Lots of Beer, Lots of Liquor, Reefer Madness, and Major Frat & Sorority Scene.</p>
<p>Seriously though, yes, of course it is possible for students to avoid the drinking culture at large state universities just because of the numbers and the variety of clubs and organizations that are available for them to join - unless of course you want to be part of the greek scene or are really into sports. But to further put this all into context, many large state universities also have high numbers of commuters or those who live off-campus (esp among older undergrads and grad students), and most drinking at these schools occurs in fraternities and sororities, followed by dorms/residence halls; commuters, particularly those living at home are the least likely college students to drink/binge drink while underage. (UT Austin is still a fairly big commuter school, I think only half the freshmen live on campus and less than 20% of the rest of the undergrads). So the fact that there are a lot of students on campus is not as important as how many of the drinking students the on-campus freshmen will come into contact with outside of classes - and this will primarily be at frat parties or parties in the dorms. The odds of on-campus freshmen at large state universities being exposed to drinking seems to me to be very high, but not necessarily in the clubs or groups they may choose to join. And many large schools do offer wellness floors which should be at least one way to avoid the most obnoxious drinking.</p>
<p>Also, the first 6 weeks or so of school is when freshmen will be the most likely to drink as they are trying to find their place socially, trying to fit in, and make new friends. They may not be involved in many ECs yet, or have not found the groups that do not have involve strong drinking cultures yet. many drink/binge drink because they think that is what everyone else is doing. The pressure and desire to conform is still very strong at 18 especially in those first few weeks. And, students who drink in the first few weeks on campus tend to be the ones most at risk for missing classes, doing poorly in school and dropping out after their first year. According to studies about 1/3 of freshmen do not return in their sophomore year; my concern is that the drinking culture is possibly a big part of this especially at the large party schools. </p>
<p>I think the odds of finding a “circle of like-minded” friends at the larger schools are possibly better - but only in the long run, NOT during the first year. But that is also part of finding the best fit. And in the case of most smaller schools, the issue of drinking, although important, is probably a relatively minor consideration in determining fit and whether there are enough social outlets available at the school that will meet the student’s needs. But, I don’t think there will be the same “everybody else is doing it” attitude that is often found at larger schools, and thus less pressure to be pushed into drinking if you do not want to. </p>
<p>I realize I may sound a bit biased and overly concerned about the influence drinking has on college students. I am a moderate drinker myself, but did not drink at all until my mid-20s. I was a commuter at a large state school and thus never exposed to the college drinking culture, but I also come from a long line of alcoholics and have seen how easily young people can take up drinking and how easily their lives can be destroyed…</p>
<p>Also, in addition to genetic factors, there may also be other physiological reasons for why young people drink, to begin with. Research has shown that the brain continues to develop well into the 20s and some scientists believe that this prolonged brain development may explain why some young people seek out thrills, and new and dangerous situations (and in our day and age this has come to include underage drinking, illegel drugs) and also why they may act impulsively and not recognize the consequences of their drinking behavior. This would help explain why the incident of binge drinking typically lessens as individuals get into their 20s.</p>
<p>This certainly reinforce the idea that it is better to keep alcohol out of the hands of 18-20 year olds because they will be more likely to drink responsibly at 21 than at 18.</p>
<p>“Where did you get this number? Is that the percentage of the population overall, or at at particular college?”</p>
<p>Wechler’s studies of colleges generally speaking, and confirmed by individual college survey data. They do vary, of course (and vary widely within groups at the same college - female, non-white (especially Asian), lower income students are much more likely to be abstainers.</p>
<p>Abstinence rises in the adult population as a whole. In my state, it is close to 40%, impacted by relatively high Latter Day Saint and Asian populations.</p>