<p>jlauer, with all due respect, Professor Smith may have been writing on those issues but I’ve never seen any solid research she has done. She has a definite agenda in her writings and she is not taken seriously by anyone I know in the psychology community. Anyone who is a proponent of the idea that contraception is evil, is, in my opinion, not to be taken seriously.</p>
<p>I googled Prof Janet Smith - sorry her research is not research. Actually, her web site grossly misuses a WHO report. It does not in any way read as she “states” it does. Therefore she is either not too bright or a liar. She is a representative of the Vatican not a scientist. Nothing wrong with that from a religious point of view. It just has nothing to do with science. She has spent her life researching ways to make religion views seem scientific. It doesn’t work well for contraception any more than it works well for evolution.
I am a nurse midwife who works with teens on a regular basis - I have delivered babies 12 yr old girls. I certainly agree sex is way too casual many times. I think the problem is way more complicated than whether or not sex is harmful in a relationships. For many girls - it is that the girls think they need a relationship at all that is the real problem. Many girls need to focus less on finding a “relationship” and focus more on developing themselves first. many girls sell themselves both physically and emotionally to have a “boyfriend”
Janie</p>
<p>I googled Prof Smith and she is a prof of theology and a sociologist – that may or may not be considered to be a “scientist” depending on a person’s perspective. She taught for nine years at the University of Notre Dame and twelve years at the University of Dallas. I hadn’t heard of her before so I will read her stuff before commenting. A cursory look does look like her stuff is not just from a religious point of view but from a practical point of view. I will read and then give comment.</p>
<p>Actually, Janet Smith is a philosophy professor.</p>
<p>I cannot find any evidence of any published research under her name. I checked Google Scholar as well. No research – just essays published in works such as “Christian Bioethics”. See, for example, <a href=“http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(l5l330451vi1toyannoteu55)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,3,6;journal,23,23;linkingpublicationresults,1:103830,1[/url]”>http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(l5l330451vi1toyannoteu55)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,3,6;journal,23,23;linkingpublicationresults,1:103830,1</a></p>
<p>Her web site bio makes no mention of any published research; just articles & essays promoting a specific religious/philosophica agenda:
</p>
<p>JLauer – I’ll make a deal with you: you don’t cite Janet Smith as a “researcher”, and I won’t cite Sue Johanson. They are both educators with opinions-- but neither one has credentials as a research scientist.</p>
<p>While googling, I found this…</p>
<p>What are the specific emotional dangers of uncommitted sex that we should incorporate into our thinking as adults and help young people name and understand? </p>
<p>Worry about pregnancy and disease. For many young people who have become sexually active, the fear of pregnancy or getting a sexually transmitted disease is a major emotional stress.</p>
<p>Regret and self-recrimination. Both guys and girls can suffer sharp regret following a sexual relationship, but girls are usually more vulnerable. One abstinence speaker asks his teen audiences: “What happens when a girl has sex with a boy? She feels closer to him. You might think it would be the same with a boy. Not necessarily.” A girl who sees sex as a way to “show you care” may feel cheated and used when the boy doesnt show a greater romantic interest after the sexual experience. Says a 15-year-old girl: “I didnt expect the guy to marry me, but I never expected him to avoid me in school.”</p>
<ol>
<li> Guilt. In his book for teenagers Love, Dating, and Sex, George Eager offers this advice to young men: “When the breakup comes [after a sexual relationship], it’s usually a lot tougher on the girls than it is on the guys. It’s not something you want on your consciencethat you caused a girl to have deep emotional problems.”</li>
</ol>
<p>An article in the New York Times quoted a 16-year-old boy in California who said he stopped having sex with girls when he saw and felt guilty about the pain he was causing: “You see them crying and confused. They say they love you, but you don’t love them.” </p>
<p>Loss of self-esteem and self-respect. </p>
<p>On both sides of dehumanized sex, there is a loss of dignity and self-worth. A 20-year-old college guy confides: “You feel pretty crummy when you get drunk at a party and have sex with some girl, and then the next morning you cant even remember who she was.”</p>
<ol>
<li> The corruption of character and the debasement of sex. When people treat others as sexual objects, they not only lose self-respect; they corrupt their character in the process. </li>
</ol>
<p>Frequently, sex corrupts character by leading people into lying to get sex. Common lies: “I love you” and “Ive never had an STD.” In one study, three-fourths of men who knew they had a sexually transmitted disease said they had sex without telling their partners about their infection.</p>
<p>One young man comments on how promiscuous sexual activity undermined his self-control:
"I began to notice that the more sex I had, the more I wanted. I had always heard that having sex was a way to get rid of sexual tension, but the opposite was true. Having sex increased my desire. It was like a drug. I couldn’t stop myself, yet at the same time, I wasn’t satisfied at all.</p>
<p>The Rhode Island Rape Crisis Center, in a 1988 survey of 1,700 students grades 6 to 9, asked, “Is it acceptable for a man to force sex on a woman if theyve been dating for more than six months?” Sixty-five percent of the boys said yes. So did 49% of the girls.</p>
<p>Sex that isn’t tied to love and commitment undermines character by subverting self-respect, self-control, and responsibility. Unchecked by a moral code, sexual desires and impulses easily run amuck and lead to habits of exploiting others for one’s selfish pleasure. In the process, sexual intercourse loses its special meaning and beauty. Instead of being a uniquely intimate expression of two people’s love and commitment, sex is trivialized and degraded. </p>
<ol>
<li> Shaken trust. Young people who feel used or betrayed after the break-up of a sexual relationship may experience difficulty with trusting in future relationships. They don’t want to be burned again. This can happen to both sexes, but once again girls are especially vulnerable. They begin to see guys as interested in just one thing: sex. </li>
</ol>
<p>Says one young woman: “Besides feeling cheap [after several sexual relationships], I began to wonder if there would ever be anyone who would love and accept me without demanding that I do something with my body.” 2
Rage over betrayal. Its true that people often feel angry when somebody breaks up with them, even if sex hasnt been involved. But the sense of betrayal is usually much greater if sex has been part of the relationship. </p>
<ol>
<li> Ruined relationships. Sex can turn a good relationship bad. Other dimensions of the relationship stop developing. Pretty soon negative emotions enter the picture. Eventually, they poison the relationship. Says a young man who identifies himself as a 22-year-old virgin: “I’ve seen too many of my friends break up after their relationships turned physical.” </li>
</ol>
<p>Twenty-four-year old Sara shares her story:
“With each date, my boyfriend’s requests for sex became more convincing. After all, we did love each other. Within two months, I gave in. Over the next six months, sex became the center of our relationship. Like a cancer, it took over.”</p>
<p>“At the same time, new things entered our relationshipanger, impatience, jealousy, and selfishness. We just couldn’t talk anymore. We grew very bored with each other. I desperately wanted a change.”</p>
<ol>
<li> Negative effects on marriage. Most teens say they dream of being happily married someday. As parents and teachers, we can help them orient toward this goal by asking: “If you have this dream, what sexual decisions at this point in your life will help you attain it? What problems might be caused by being sexually intimate before marriage?” Here are four such problems:
Comparisons. If you have had sex with someone other than your marriage partner, there will be the tendency, sometimes beyond your control, to compare your spouse with previous partners. This is especially true if your husband or wife doesn’t please you sexually as much as a previous partner did. Says one young husband: “When I make love with my wife, I think, This girl could kiss better, or This girl could do that better. I cant get rid of the comparisons.”</li>
</ol>
<p>And, if you read the article, many people who say they never had sex, have, who walk around all re-virginized lie</p>
<p>Sex is part of being human, and it can be wonderful in a caring, MATURE, relationship. </p>
<p>If a 24 year old guy is STILL thinking about old girlfriend when he is with his wife, he needs to grow up alot…is he saying he should never have KISSED anyone before he got married? If he really loved his wife, he would lose the memories, his comments say much more about his readiness for marriage than what he did before</p>
<p>And why do men want virgins…I don’t get that…</p>
<p>unless:</p>
<p>“This is especially true if your husband or wife doesn’t please you sexually as much as a previous partner did. Says one young husband”</p>
<p>is it so if they are selfish and inept, the wife will jsut accept it and not know what a true physical joy sex can be, and gee, didn’t god make our bodies so we can feel that pleasure</p>
<p>My question is why do some people feel so threatened by “promiscuity” in others? Why the need to judge or to define what is acceptable? I’m not talking about parenting of young teens here - obviously that is a different issue - I’m focusing on young adults of college age and beyond.</p>
<p>When D1 was in HS I was so relieved to hear from D2 that D1 and her boyfriend didn’t believe in pre-marital sex. They went all through college and then married. To this day D1 says that waiting has made their marriage so much more fulfilling and she’s so glad they waited.</p>
<p>D2 is another story, didn’t wait until marriage but was not promiscuous. She has a happy marriage now but wishes she had waited until she married. Just yesterday she gave a little “you need to wait” talk to her brother. We’ll see.</p>
<p>Personally, I really hate to see today’s kids treat sex as a casual sport.</p>
<p>Calmom–it works both ways. People who are “doing it” try to make others feel like losers for not doing it. All I can say is it indicates having/not having sex IS a big deal.</p>
<p>Tookie,
How old were your daughters when they got married? I didn’t get married until I was 28 and I can’t imagine remaining a virgin that long – I mean, I would have been one very frustrated 27-year-old. I had one boyfriend all the way through college - we lived together most of the time – I am glad that we didn’t feel pressure to get married, because it was a good relationship but we both had a lot of growing up to do. My mom got married at age 19 - she dropped out of college to get married - and while I am of course very glad that she married my dad, I think that she was in a sense a victim of the times – if she hadn’t felt emotionally pressured to get married to avoid “sneaking around” with my dad, maybe she would have finished her degree. I know that she always regretted not finishing college. </p>
<p>Personally, I don’t want to see my kids marrying too young … and as you can tell from my post, I do think that the idea of waiting until marriage for sex can create a lot of emotional pressure to get married before the couple is mature enough to make that long term commitment.</p>
<p>mommusic – I really haven’t seen it much the other way - that is, when I was young I never felt pressure from others and it doesn’t seem like my daughter’s sexually active friends in high school were putting any pressure on her. But of course I would agree that no one should be made to feel inadequate because they are not choosing to have sex. But this is not a thread about “sex” - it is a thread about “promiscuity” – and so I am responding to that notion. And that is a concept that implies a negative judgment: that is, that we are drawing a line as to the circumstances under which sex is appropriate. </p>
<p>I just don’t think its all that simple. What feels right & appropriate to one person is not the same as another. There are also many reasons why a person might want sex outside of marriage - college students or young adults in their early 20s might really not feel ready to settle down, and older individuals who are past the child-bearing years might also want to have the benefits of a close emotional relationship with somoene without all the strings of marriage or long-term fidelity. I mean, commitment is a very good thing, but it is not always the best thing for an individual at a given time in their life.</p>
<p>
Hmmmm… and your son would be sharing all the intimate details of his college romance with you??? I find it hard to believe that your son will share with you the information that he is having sex, when he knows that you disapprove so strongly. (And I’m not saying that he IS having sex - but just that, if he is, he ain’t going to be telling you! And should you really know that kind of stuff about your grownup kid?)
Golly, guys - how did our generation get to be so prudish?? Is it all in reaction to the get stoned, get laid, smoke weed free love Woodstock era??</p>
<p>My D, I can see them getting married at 28-30 years old, and can’t see them “holding” out for the sake of “holding out” in their 20s. If they wait, fine, if they don’t fine, it is not the end of the world to have sex out of marriage, and through life relationships will be simple, complicated, honest, manipulative, fair, imbalanced, whether sex is involved or not</p>
<p>It is so easy to say, well, no sex will stop problems, it may stop a few, but some of the wonderful relationships and feelings you can have with sex and a loving partner can also be wonderful</p>
<p>I really wonder how many people who say, oh yeah, Mom, I haven’t done anything, not even fondling and I am 25, are being honest</p>
<p>Calmom, D1 got married at 20, her junior year in college. Her H had graduated so she finished out her last year as a married student. I remember at her wedding shower telling me, “Mother, I feel so YOUNG!” She has a teaching degree and is currently homeschooling.</p>
<p>D2 got married at 25 and she was 3 mos. pregnant. They were engaged at the time and he was several years older.</p>
<p>Anxiousmom, wow, I so agree with you, if my future H had spoken to his mom about OUR sex life, I would wonder about OUR relationship, sex or no sex in a couple should be personal and for him to say, mom, hey, be proud I haven’t even touched Becky, sounds so odd</p>
<p>He is a man and this is his serious GF, somethings in relationships are private and should NOT be shared with mom</p>
<p>With a guy like that, no offence, I would tell my D to go far away because he is sharing info with mom that he should not be as an adult male</p>
<p>I stillwant to now what SEX is, is it only vaginal intercourse? We talk in general terms, but risky activity can occur without intercourse AND without knowledge of being safe, and do kids say, well, no intercourse, no sex so we are still virgins and not having sex?</p>
<p>That has been shown, in research, to often be the case</p>
<p>
Yeah, at our age it’s sometimes hard to remember…
(Only joking 
)</p>
<p>"I find it hard to believe that your son will share with you the information that he is having sex, when he knows that you disapprove so strongly. "</p>
<p>If he were having sex, he would simply not bring up the subject. I do not ask about such things. And it was not a detailed discussion, just a mention as he was discussing the subject in other regards. My son also knows I disapprove of underage drinking, but he did share with me when he started drinking–as well as when he stopped. He is 19, and we have always had a very close family. I think it is a good thing that my son feels he can trust me enough to discuss these things. Isn’t that what we want our kids to do, or should we put such things back in the closet? You say he shouldn’t be talking about such things with me, and then you complain that we are too prudish?? That sounds a bit contradictory to me.</p>
<p>No, but if this was a “serious gf” some things in relationships do not need to be shared with mom, sorry, that is not being prudish, you are choosing to turn this back on me, and these were ADULTS</p>
<p>My Ds talk to me about BFs etc, but something so intimate as the physical side of a relationship of two ADULTs in college , well, it seems odd to me. </p>
<p>What if son had come to you and said, Mom, she wouldn’t put out for me, what should I do?</p>
<p>Maybe it is the way it was presented that made it a bit odd. </p>
<p>There is closeness and openness, and then there is a mature adult relationship, between college students, a serious one, and to share such intimate details with dear mom as an ADULT is just…I can’t explain it, but to me crosses the line on the woman’s privacy, that is it, she is an adult woman, and he is telling mom about her in very intimate detail their physical relationship, how far or not they went</p>
<p>WHy did he feel the need to share that?</p>
<p>As an adult male, whatever happened between him and his adult GF is not something to be shared in such detail with MOM, sorry if you find that contradictory, I find it a breach of trust to the GF</p>
<p>What if they HAD sex, would he have told you? And then, when she came around as they are still friends, what would you have thought of her? She was an adult, in college, yet he treated their relationship with such personal information, as if he was still in HS</p>
<p>Why do you need to know if he is having sex with her or not? Why did he feel the need to tell you so much information?</p>
<p>Closeness to mom is one thing, sharing such personal information about an adult relationship with mom is another, that is private and what physical contact they as adult had is not your business</p>